So today is all about it’s kinda building off on what I talked about the last time, what on that last time, which was basically creating your packages and product side services.

What I wanted to, you know, get into now and start preparing y’all, even if you feel like, oh, I don’t have an email list right now, or maybe my email is just tiny or, you know, the If you don’t have an email list, this is something you definitely wanna start thinking about right now because this is something that future you will need. So If you don’t have an email list, I would highly encourage you to sign up for an ESP after this call and start thinking about your automated sales sequence for your productized services. And if you do have an email list, then your action item will be to write that, email sequence and put it into your ESP.

So yeah, I know I’m, like, kind of, jumping the downhill literally, but I definitely want us to want to encourage you to not wait till you have a big list or, you know, like, a big list or whatever. Like, this is definitely something you wanna start doing right now way too many service providers and, literally losing out on valuable reads and clients because, you know, we haven’t really thought about this ahead of time. So Let’s go. So stack themselves, you it’s essentially an effortless email framework for filling your packages on autopilot.

For those of you who don’t know this, like, literally our business, our entire copywriting service business is built on the foundational packages. That is what, you know, like, last year, four hundred k was copy packages.

It’s what has helped us scale.

And they I would say almost but not proof. We are like, you know, we do have periods when I get, like, tired, but we know when kinda watch for and just kind of step away a little bit, but it’s it’s beautiful. And this is an email sequence. I have tested multiple multiple times and have used it even when I did not have a huge list or used it on social for that matter.

So The reason most packages do not sell via email is because they’re missing a welcome or sales sequence to start with. Like, you know, if you’re if you have a package, even if it’s like an audit, and you aren’t talking about a new welcome sequence, you’re missing out on sales there. You’re missing CDA’s to sign up for your packages. A lot of people just talk about the package, but they don’t tell prospects or leads.

That this is what you need to do to get it. It’s amazing how many emails I have critiqued where clear CDS and other, and Clarity is key. All of you know that. Keeping sales emails in your in your newsletter strategy.

Okay. Hang on. Yeah. I found it over twenty five years ago. I’m trying to meet you.

Okay.

Alright. I no. I can’t mute people apparently. You have to mute yourself.

So The third reason is if you’re sending out emails, you aren’t including any sales emails. As part of that newsletter strategy.

And that is, again, something that you wanna start thinking about intentionally. So if you’re sending out a weekly email to your list, You wanna think about, okay, if I’m sending up four emails a week, do I have a sales email in the mix?

Over not showing your leads in prospects, where which is like, oh, I wanna give value. I wanna give value. And I’ve been on that end of the spectrum where, you know, I really wanna give value, but pointed there is something like too much value. So you need to remember that you’re all business owners, and yes, we want to nurture all these. We wanna give code on code value, but we also wanna sell.

And then selling without context or nuance, this is something that I have seen.

A lot of creative entrepreneurs make where We, in our heads, know what the package is for and what it does, but we forget that for a prospect This is just one of many things that’s been, you know, that’s coming at them, and they need to, and then to help to have to then add context to it or, like, okay, where is this gonna fit into my marketing system? Or how is this gonna help me accomplish those goals? We don’t want them to have to do the heavy lifting of kind of figuring out how will this help them. We wanna give them the context. We wanna give them those new answers of how is our package going to help them, or how is a productized service going to help them?

So these are things you wanna kind of avoid in any of the emails that you write for when it comes to selling your packages for sending TLS.

Okay.

So one thing all of you need to remember is emails are the engine that can clear demand and fuel sales for your serve services and packages, but only when you use them with intention and purpose, which is exactly what we’re gonna talk about today.

And again, emails are a authority pillar that you should be building, and I cannot stress enough the importance of doing that. Even even if you’re, I would say, even if you’re in and building of, you know, even if you’re just in house, like, you know, Randall is, like, I would still say start building your email list, you know, or and especially if you’re in house and freelancing start building your email list. It goes this holds good in all cases and all scenarios. So With that, let’s talk about my go to framework for sales viewing automated emails for packages. I say automated because that’s pretty much how I tend to use them, but you could use them as broadcast.

Last year, and this year, I have mainly used them as broadcast mainly because we’ve been kind of book solid, but, I have used them as automated emails. Hold on a lot. So specific, timely, unteachable, engage, motivate to act. That’s my framework. I’m a huge fan of frameworks just to kind of simplify things for myself. So this is what I keep in mind when I’m writing emails for my services and packages.

Alright. Well, let me see. Before we look at it, the two. Okay. Hada has a question.

Do you actively sell and include include those links in the welcome sequence, or do you leave it for the end of the sequence?

I would actively sell and include those links in the welcome sequence. So, in fact, I’m going to talk about that too at the end, as well. Like, you can you can actually just have a one email sale sequence as well. So we’ll talk with you about that, towards the end. Cool. Let me move forward.

So this is an email that I sent out to our list. This was for our Tysmal, which was for, you know, it’s a VIP package, VIP day kind of package that I was selling way back in the day. I’m still selling it.

And this was one of the emails I used when we were launching it. So the reason I’ve shared this here is because it like literally lays out everything. It starts with specificity, and you’ll see context.

So how much copy do you need for an upgrade launch? Okay. Simply use what I use from a live launch when I turn this. What’s the difference between live launch?

Copy. So very specific about the problems that it would be solving for them. And these are three of the most popular questions to adapt, and then this is what led to my framework, my process. Now this is like a really long email.

This does not, by any standards means that all of you need to write long emails, please, this is just to kind of give you an idea of how, like, kind of all the different elements that come in. These could be, like, shorter or faster paced emails as well.

It’s timely. So why I developed this teachable to your other six copy barrels, and this is again content Bistro. We have a lot of foodie references going. So I talk about, you know, what everything that they need here I include a lot of specificity also in terms of things like, you know, these actors clip bars and, you know, so it’s engaging. There’s more, you know, there’s a little bit of personality there.

And then, of course, motivations, like, why do they need this? So you need to connect with your audience’s pain. You need to strongly, you know, you have to tap empathy. You wanna You need both strategy and copy assets, all of that. So this was an email that was a blended set, like this value pass series of the precursor to Artezno, your VIP already, we had people on the wait list. So this went out to them.

Fairly, fairly simple and relatively standard.

So specificity, how do you wanna craft that? You wanna use we’ve had you worded subject lines that increase your open rates. You wanna keep that up within your email. Examples, use specificity to add that context, use specificity to highlight why would they need it, use specificity to, you know, even talk about their motivations so you can use them interchangeably.

Specific results, specific steps, specific outcomes, specific deliverables. Be very, very clear about what it is and why they need this. So this was like a presale email. If you’re sending it directly for a set for a package, tell if you wanna be very clear about what are the deliverables in there, what, and, you know, how do they lead to the certain outcomes?

And then, of course, experiment test optimizes goes without saying.

Rule of one, applies everywhere, one email, one package. Acceptions are, you have two tiers to a package, like fully loaded launch for a very long time, had two tiers. Artasional, I think has half a day and full day, I think, right now. Point is, if you have two tiers, that’s fine.

That does not mean that you’re talking about two different packages, you know, But what email one package? New packages that lead to a similar outcome? Yes. You could, you know, maybe talk about it because you’re you’re then you’re using one email, one come as the guiding goal.

But do not try and talk about an audit or a website copy package and a launch copy package in one email. Unless, of course, it’s like, say, you’re doing, like, a catalog style email or something like that. But for these automated sales emails, you wanna keep it to one email one package.

Soup specificity super powers emote relevant emojis that are very specific to your brand numbers, dollar figures, key adjectives, you know, like, click bars for us is very on brand or just term benefits, you know, and use all of this again for your subject lines or for your body copy.

Use words and phrases that involve visual images that, you know, like, literally for, like, for our audience, again, Harry Potter was a big part of our brand for the longest time ever until Jacob Allen ruined it for everybody. But, so things like, you know, hybrid sized mountains of unfolded laundry instead of a laundry pile.

As copywriters, y’all have the gift of leaning into specificity, lean into it, and music.

But with specificity like makeup, less is more that don’t go overboard, know when to dial it down. And when you do your sweeps, that is when you need to look at and think about, like, okay. Am I just overdoing it here?

Or is this real needed to make a point?

Then we have timely unteachable.

So, again, timeliness and copy can usually be created with strategic calls to action. So Why do they need to act now? What’s the urgency there? Along with that, you can be timely with content. That’s actually timely. So seasonal specific emails or seasonal specific packages, for example.

If you’ve got, like, screenshots and case studies that have just come in, that may be a good point to include in your cell sequence. References to current world situations. Now if you’re automating this and if you’re setting this up for your work for your welcome sequence or for a and always on wakeless sales sequence, this references to current world events may not be a good idea, but you can obviously be timely in other aspects.

And then teaching. Now, t this is where you need to be extra, extra careful because we tent we can tend to go to the side of teaching too much.

And We don’t wanna do that, not because we wanna withhold information, we wanna keep, but because we do not want to cause more confusion.

For our prospective clients. We do not want them to start feeling like, oh my gosh. This is way too overwhelming or Oh my gosh. This is easy and I can do it only to realize that this is not easy and they will struggle to do it.

So you know, which ways we wanna be very careful about what we teach. So five things that I’d like tested out is process. You saw an example of that, like, I talked about, you know, cures. Well, it’s included in this.

And here’s what you need, you know, when it comes to every launch copy cures, everything that you need in it. You can also talk about mistakes your clients made before they hired you. You can talk about the importance of the key elements in your package kind of ties in with the process as well. You can talk about amplifying results your packages, and you can also talk about what comes after and what should they be preparing for?

Once they worked with you. So that’s like future pacing with a twist. You will lean on your case studies and customer success stories here to talk about it. Okay.

My client had to hire a customer service executive just to kind of deal support all the new clients that they got after our, you know, she worked with me on a fast sale package. So that’s just something you may wanna start thinking about right now. That kind of a team. Help them see themselves two steps ahead or even ten steps ahead of where they are right now after they work with you.

Now the goal here for teaching is you wanna, you know, pick the curiosity, but you also wanna give great value. You wanna, you know, help them see that you know your stuff. So that’s why it’s like a fine balance and a good idea whenever in doubt, again, take the time to give it a suite, take the time to get it critique if possible, you know, just so that you feel very confident about it. But the point is don’t hesitate from teaching. Just be careful that you don’t just go way overboard here.

Engaging personality, humor, pop culture, trivia, books, TV, and music, values. We are huge, like, personally, you know, I bring up the fact about our about financial stewardship. I bring up the fact about integrating life with work. I, you know, it’s super these are like values that are key to us.

So, We talk about that all the time, and we, you know, and we use them to create a point of differentiation as well. So Think about, you know, if you feel like, oh, I I’m not into pop culture or I don’t listen to a lot of music or I don’t read a lot of buzzer. I have not interesting happening in my life, which honestly trust me you will be. But don’t hesitate from talking about your don’t have different talking about words and phrases that you, you know, use all the time or you made up.

I’ll give you an example. I just reasonably, like, I started using the word truth biscuit instead of truth bomb because, again, on brand for us. So don’t hesitate from adding in personality to make your emails more engaging.

And of course, what makes you you, what makes you data from everybody else and maybe doing the same thing. So personality types, like, literally everyone on our list knows that our Maya script types. Those are Integram types because they’re big on those. But if you’re not, like, think about it, maybe you have a habit, maybe you have a pet peeve, all of the research that you would do for your clients and their audiences, you need to do for yourself as well. So you need to be kind of clear on what makes you you, and then use that in your emails.

Don’t be afraid to listen humor.

This is something I personally had to learn, because humor does not come. I’m not one of those that it comes naturally too. So I did do some learning here. And humor seriously is a book I really I really enjoyed it in getting some really good, you know, strategic tips.

And then, of course, I don’t know if he’s still running it. Justin Blackman had a course called write more personality, which I took. And absolutely loved and have used, used it extensively. So, yeah, but if it comes naturally to you, you’re one of the, you know, lucky ones.

Please go ahead and definitely use humor.

Formadding basic rules of copywriting out everybody just be sure, like, when you’re reading your emails, make sure you preview them both for mobile and for desktops format your content with bold and italics, bullet at a number of layers, short type paragraphs.

You’ve got, you know, the gist.

Jiff it up.

Very, very easy to add, you know, engagement and personality with GIFs.

Don’t be afraid to use them. But again, you don’t wanna kind of overdo them mainly because we’ve seen, at least, I’ve seen it in fact deliberately in certain cases.

Also don’t hold back on your opinions. You know? So they do make for a lot of engaging reading. You’ve got hot takes, on things. So, you know, like Abby mentioned her her hot take or her, you know, contributing point of view was, you can go evergreen from day one. Something that, you know, you should be definitely talking about. And if you, you know, if you’re when you put together emails for your evergreen package.

And then finally, we have motivations. Now motivations is what basically answering the question. Why should they care?

Why should they care about your package? So your package or productized service was created with the intent to help, solve, heal, undo, redo, improved, increased, decreased something in your prospects lot.

You need to talk about that, lean on it, shine a spotlight on it. Does not mean you poke the pain or, you know, do all of the things that we don’t wanna do. You want it, but you do want to highlight why they need it. Again, this is what adds context and nuance to your emails.

Okay. Before we get into the tactical side, questions. Okay. Oh, if you asked, how are people entering this funnel?

Your welcome sequence feedback for application funnel? It depends. You could use it as it depends on what packages you wanna sell. Like, we’ve reached the stage where we’ve got so many packages, so we don’t, you know, we don’t have them in a welcome sequence.

Excuse me.

But what we do, we did earlier was we had a vacress. We used to build a vacress, and then we used to have a sequence here. But if you have, like, say, one big package right now, which is what I would hope all of you do have, I would use the welcome sequence for that. You could simultaneously also below wait list for it.

So for people who don’t wanna sign up to say a welcome sequence, your wait list could be would be actually a really good idea because those would be active warm leads saying, Hey, I wanna hear more about your packages. So I would actually do both they could enter the funnel, through an automated sales. See oh, they could also enter the following something that we tested out with a client of ours is a noted for sales newsletter sequence. Those are automated newsletters that go out every week and sell her coaching activist.

So, we wrote up I wrote up email newsletters for six months for her. So And every email followed the same same format. She she offers she’s an executive career coach, office career coaching services. Point is you could use them in multiple different ways.

Alright.

So how many emails to send?

My favorite answer, it depends. It depends on your package cost. It depends on how warm your list is, how the list temperature essentially, and audience fairness? Like, does your audience know that they are they pain aware?

Are they solution aware? Are they brand aware? Like, where exactly are they is somewhere in the middle there. So if you would know more about that, that would be great.

It would depend on all of these factors.

Having said that, three to five is usually a solid number to start with.

Now you could take each element in stem and turn that into a sequence. So you could have an email that’s super specific about the pain that you’re solving. And, you know, what what your offer is. You could have an email that’s timely and teachable.

So it walks them through your process or gives them a behind the scenes, and, you know, it’s exactly what to expect from every deliverable. It could be just engaging in storytelling, you know, so you could have, like, just four email and then motivation have, like, two emails because that would be, like, the last two emails that they would get. So you could turn stem into its own sequence or you can send three emails with all of the elements in it. I tend to lean towards sending three to five emails that include all the elements in it. You saw that example earlier, But, you could, you know, totally turn them into an automated sales sequence by itself as well.

So when this is, you know, I’ll leave you kind of answering your question as well. You could send it as a welcome sequence. You can sell it at when you launch a new package as an automated sales sequence to everybody who’s clicked on the link in your emails before that to show interest or been on your wait list, you could send an automated wait list sequence, digit results, email newsletters, and then also for pre selling and getting looked up for package, which is what we kind of did with with artisanal when we launched it initially as we presold it.

And then clients were booked in for, like, say, thirty days later or sixty days later. It was a while ago. But, you could use it in you could send these emails in so many different points, the easiest would be the welcome sequence or the note to fulfill email newsletters. Like, if You know that you have a certain audience segment on your list, but not yet for sales email newsletter sequence would be great. For them because then you can just batchrate these emails, send them out every week, they’re curing from you, and you’re selling your packages as well.

Should you sell in every email?

Yes?

And no? Yes. You do need to talk about the package in every email. No. You don’t need to create false scarcity.

You don’t need to make it appear that this is this is never going to be offered again or or that, you know, you’ll be increasing your prices unless, of course, you will be increasing your prices. So, Sally, every email, don’t sell in a way that doesn’t make you feel good. And if it doesn’t make you feel good, it would definitely not make a few of your clients feel good. That’s, you know, because Yeah.

That’s kind of what I’ve come to realize. So, yeah, don’t hesitate from from Sally.

The one email sales sequence.

If you decide to send only one email to your list, to talk about your package. I hope you said more than that, but if you say, like, okay, but I’m not gonna say, hey, thank you. I don’t I don’t wanna send the sales sequence, etcetera, etcetera. I would highly recommend you use the confirmation email to sell your package or, you know, to talk about, like, write a stem email.

And why? Because not only does this email have the highest open rates because people are taking to to confirm you, or they’ve just gotten on your list. They’re like, They they know and remember who you are, but it’s also a great opportunity for you personally to build a connection with a prospect, maybe very new to your brand. Right?

And, if you’re running, say, Facebook ads, or even, like, from social, or if you’re using affiliates or, you know, like partners or JV partners and things like that, or muted newsletter swaps, point is, again, it does not have to feel pushy or safety when done. Right? So what you wanna do is you wanna share your story in it, give some backstory about how you started. We are, you know, what it is that, you know, you’re known for, what can they expect, from the freebie that they’ve signed up for.

And why should they, you know, go ahead and actually watch it, download it, use it whatever your freebie is. If you have a freebie there, you wanna validate and empathize with their struggle. You wanna celebrate their action taking spirit.

Educate them. We talked about what you can teach them.

But the opportunity here is for you to share your credibility markers. So things like, I’ve been doing this for x number of years. Here are some mistakes that I’ve seen, you know, or here’s what a client said after, you know, we finished implementing their, their funnel or their website copy or, etcetera. So you wanna use the education part to teach about your process, but also share credibility markers. And then you wanna just set it seating and soft selling. So you wanna give them a sneak peek of what’s included in your package, what can they expect, and buy them to check it out and come back to if they have questions or book a call with you, to get more details.

But, yeah, So, yes, you can definitely just sell with one email.

I would hope you would use more than that. But if you have to, then, yeah, this the confirmation email do not overlook it.

Alright.

Soft selling your package for maximum sales. This is something you wanna kind of keep in mind for your emails, whether you’re using it in your confirmation email or even in your sales email and you’re like, you know, okay, I feel like this is getting me too salty.

So You can share a time lapse video if you’re working on a package deliverable. You can share case studies, testimonials, screenshots from clients, like, you know, that they leave in Google Docs.

You can drop a personal video these days. There’s so many tools that make it so much easy. So that make it so easy for you to kind of be at these personalized videos at scale and share why you created the package in the first place. I think I did that I did I did that one time when we launched, a package version of, of my program, ready to sell.

It did really, really well. So You could for social, you could create a carousel, explain why, you know, what’s in that package, why do they need it, and then embed that carousel in your email. So you again, the idea here is for you to get that package in front of your audience in as many ways as possible and not hesitate from the idea of selling, in a way that feels good to you. Eglopedia.

We have we have one. We use one regularly for our packages. So we need people to download to see examples, case studies, and your and the process that we use as well. Key elements, invite them to get on a zero pressure call with you. Make it really, really easy for people to know what offer and to buy from you via emails.

Next steps, identify the package you wanna sell. But those of you who have created packages since our last call, amazing. Happy to give you feedback on those.

Write up one to three emails or she’ll do five emails using STEM, upload them into your email system and send. And then, yeah, just keep testing and optimizing a simple log. Cool. We have plenty of time for questions.

Okay.

Chris asked, would you recommend having subscribers sign up for a sales sequence from one of the weekly newsletters if so how Yes. Great idea. I absolutely recommend it. So let’s say you’re setting up weekly newsletters and you want to get people to sign up for a sales sequence for one of your packages.

Is that correct? That’s what you wanna okay. Good. So there are a couple of ways you could do this.

You could do this, but if since they’re already on your email list, you could, you know, skip the step of having them subscribe again for their details in again. You could just say, if you’re interested in my ABC package that would help you do x y z tap this link and I’ll send you more details. So when they tap the link, an automation kicks in, that would put them into the sales sequence.

Most ESPs make it really simple to do that. So that’s all you would need to do. So when you do that, the system would the automation would kick in, and you would tag them as ABC interest list, for example.

Does that help?

Yeah.

I was wondering, also, like, considering I haven’t sold anything to my list, for example. Right? So I guess the less aware or less or the lower the intent is probably the longer the sequence will will have to be to kind of educate them. Right?

Not really. The you’ve had your list for a while. You have been emailing them regularly. Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So honestly, you would all you would need to do is just let them know that this is something that you’ve, you know, fit in your working on and he if they’re interested in working on it with you or if they’d like to hire you for it, here’s, you know, to tap here and you’d send them more details. And when it happens, they know that they’re going to get details about a package. So your first email itself could be a pitch email.

You know, it could be a case.

The the the click is the qualification. So, yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. That is the qualification. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you.

You’re welcome.

I’ll ask how you all manage the tech side of all these phones, do you outsource it at DFI? So the the welcome sequence and, nurture hotel users. These are, like, fairly, like so here’s the thing. I would I’ve been with ConvertKit for seven years now.

So for me, it’s really easy to go in and set these up. I know. I also like to know a tool inside out, even though, like, right now, we be hired someone who’s working on setting up the whole evergreen side of things for us. But, for for a program, that that is something I would not want to do, at all.

But something like a welcome sequence and all, I would do it myself.

But yeah, I would be keen to share what the group has to say, like, do y’all do your, DIY or automations?

Or hire it out, but they’ll let like techy is who can easily help you do that as well.

Abby, Jessica Johnson.

I do.

I do. I think ConvertKit is pretty it’s pretty easy. The screening tags.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.

And and the automation are visual.

So it’s pretty easy.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So most of us set it up ourselves. I would for your business, and this is just a piece of side you know, like, from someone who’s been there and done that.

Oil business, I would say it I would highly recommend knowing the tools your business uses in setup. You can definitely hire out the setup later on, like, like I gave you the example of the open funnel setup. Or for example, design, you know, like website design. I don’t do it, but I can go in and make quick changes. I can go in and the reason being it just makes it a lot easier and less stressful, and also because I’m kind of anal about control, so there’s that too. But I would highly recommend, like, knowing your ESP and knowing what it can do. So you don’t have to, like, be you know, just kind of wait for someone else to do it for you.

Cool. Just Yeah. Jessica has another good point, but I’m offering emails for I have to copy many clients ask so many questions about set up in their ESP because it’s an easy upsell for me. Amazing.

I love that. Yeah. Wait. Wait.

Okay. Cool. What other questions do you have about packages or selling your packages?

Abby, can I ask that?

Yeah, I’m looking to, like, increase the profitability of my package. I’ve been selling it for a while. I just felt like you’re the perfect person to ask because you’re all about profitability.

So I’d love to, like, do two.

So I, yeah, I guess my option, like, the the obvious thing to hire.

I have like I’m also curious, like, how much you template, like, the the copy deliverable. So I’m doing an open funnel photo. So it’s kind of similar to your, like, fully loaded launch.

Do you I do have templates for all the bits, but I always feel guilty using them. So I’m like curious if you if you template it out. And, Yeah. With the hiring up for research, like, I have a block there.

I don’t know what it is. I think it’s probably just because I’ve I’m not really hired out for stuff like that. So That was a real question. We’re just like some thoughts.

I might be waiting, like, how we sort out.

Okay. Cool. So let me just kind of clarify so that I know I have it right, and I’m I can give you information that would help you. So, you wanna know how to increase the profitability of your packages, by either hiring it out or by speeding up the process. Correct?

Yeah.

Okay. Great. Alright. So, yeah, hiring it out highly highly recommend research take took a lot of time on and also for me because I’m in India.

Time zones, and our clients are all in the US and, you know, North America, essentially. So time zones were Royal pain.

So that was my big motivation of hiring it out because I I used to be up for calls, and then, you know, I would not be my best. Yeah. So, hi, workman, hiring out research, if you can, and you factor the pricing into your package. Basically.

So to give you, I think I mentioned this somewhere in the group earlier, like, research I’ve hired out in the, you know, our research assistant takes, you know, twenty five hundred or upwards depending on the depth and breadth of research. For instance, if you have clients who have, like, so we’ve had clients who’ve had big server responses that have over thousand responses. We obviously are not gonna come to thousand responses, but we still would have, like, there’s a few hundred responses that we would, like, kind of pull from. Right?

So that’s more data there. It kind of depends on data, but essentially, like I would say, twenty five hundred is a decent package price kind of keep in mind if you’re hiring a research, but you also for the other thing you wanna look at is opportunity cost. Right? So When I calculated the amount of time, actually, my uncle calculated the amount of time, I was spending on the research phase of product.

It just made more sense for us to hire it out so that I could take on another package line. Right? And that kind of then You know, that is what helped us to really do more work without burning out. I mean, like I said, like last year, just the one the one hundred k package that I did was, like, twelve different sales pages and don’t know how many hundreds of emails.

It was, like, I could have easily said, like, okay. Yeah. After this, I’m not gonna do another project.

But I just wasn’t stressed out at all. And large part of that would be, research, but the other is going to answer the other part your question, which is process package delivery is all about your processes. And this is for everybody, whether you do, you know, like launch copywriting, your email rating or any kind of copywriting point is for your packages, you need to look at what can you systematize and In my case, I do not have used templates for copy.

I have a huge thing against templates for cockney.

It’s on my pet peeves. But I do have what I call recipes and frameworks. So I’m a huge, huge I would like if I write a sales page for the first time at it conversely well, you can be one hundred percent sure it’s going to become recipe. And when I say recipe, it’s essentially I would write down, okay, like, so here’s step one.

Like, literally, write it out like a recipe. So I would say, okay, here are the ingredients that I use for this. Here’s step one. You’re step two.

You’re step three. You’re step four. You’re step five. And then when I’m sitting down to write, all I do is I open up a recipe.

I copy that into a Google doc, so I’m not starting with a blank page. And then I just Follow the steps, put my copy in the relevant sections. And when needed, because again, audience is wary. So it may be the same recipe, but I can move steps around and gives me flexibility.

So that is another way that I’ve been able to really speed up my process. That’s made a huge, huge difference.

Going back to hiring, yes, research is one thing, but you also need to know that our very first hire was an editor. Because editing was my least favorite thing to do. We did not hire VA. I know that Joe encourages us to hire via, like, you know, first thing.

But went against the grain there, hired an editor because editing was my most time consuming job, and an editor was our first full time hire and has continued to be part of our team sense. So, that saves me a ton of time because I know the copy that I get I’m like, I’m not worried that I’m sending off copy that hasn’t been seen by another pair of professional copywriting, copy editing files. So our editor right now is someone who’s also trained in BrandVoice. So that means really, really you know, it’s really helpful for me to know where I’m going off voice sometimes for a brand, you know, especially because I do multiple projects for the same brand.

So she’s she can recognize, like, hey, you know, this should you be using these many exclamation marks and, you know, things like that because it’s not on them. So that really helps save time for me. I’m not spending time editing. Anything that helps us save time is a hire that we would we would consider.

I don’t do my own wireframes either.

We hire that out too. So I save a ton of time on just focusing on doing my writing.

That is that is basically what what’s really really helped.

Okay. Cool. Yeah. Because I don’t I don’t wireframe. I didn’t realize you did that.

But I yeah. I think like So a project will take me fifty hours, and I don’t really see room to, like, speed up. So I do use frameworks and stuff, but I think with the hiring out the research, like, because that’s such a key part of where, like, the ideas happen, like, when I’m finding it all, like, that’s usually when I get, like, the big idea. So I think I just, worry that if I hired that out, like, I mean, what do you think of, like, if I have, like, a kind of a framework for a master guide and I tell them what race I should do and, like, to put it in there, and then reviewing that. Is that kind of?

Yeah. Exactly. You can absolutely do that. So I have a framework for my messaging and recommendations guide as well, and I would let my researchers just know that, hey, you know, this is how I needed it.

So and, yeah. I mean, we worked with three different research specialists over the years and all through, like, because we had so many projects, so we would, you know, like, and they would have that limited So we would hire out different projects to all of them. All three of them have same standard instructions, same briefs, everything. So it yeah.

And I completely agree with this. This was, like, one of my big too. It’s like, you know, okay. How would we get sticky messaging?

How would I know about, you know, things like, okay. Again, the big idea here, all of those things, but Yeah. I mean, hiring research, Abby has made zero, I would say.

Difference tune. In fact, if anything, I’m more creative. Like, I find that because I’m approaching the messaging and the research data with those fresh eyes. So I would say it’s it’s been a huge huge help.

Oh, sorry. One more question. I’m really sorry to be like a hog, but, how how do you hire someone? How where do you find these people? To do.

Yeah. Yeah.

I I actually so sorry. I I want to add to this. I also wanted to ask, like, I’m curious For the research part, do you hire someone who already knows how to do copy research, or are they like generalist researchers or what?

Copy research. They they specifically work with copywriters, to research for their client. Projects. So, I’ll tell you how we found.

So here’s, so one of the first researchers we worked with was in our programs, for creating packages, and created a research package, and we ended up hiring her. So that was easy. The second researcher was, Melissa Harstein, I found it to another copywriter, and the third researcher was essentially she started as our content support, and the community concierge, assistant, and then she we realized, like, you know, she she had the potential. And so we started asking, like, would you like to do research?

And she did, like, a bunch of projects where it went really well. And now she specializes only in research. So, but how would you find these is by asking people in your network. Like, this is the group you would wanna ask.

I’m happy to recommend who we work with for research. Should you decide to hire, and you could ask on social. Like, generally, And that’s how we found our editor as well. A copywriter who was in my program was working a second editor.

Our first editor, we found through an ad. You can also do job ads But, but I I feel like you make way, way better hires through, you know, like asking people who they work with and getting referrals. So very happy to recommend both our editor and our research people. To you, one of them has gone in house and is no longer doing research, and the other one This also is on a short hiatus from work, but the third one, I’m very happy to make an introduction to any of you needed.

Thank you.

That’d be great.

Hi, buddy. Hi, everyone. How are you?

Hey, honey.

Hi. Sorry. I I didn’t realize it was so early this morning. I had the kids walking them to school. So apologies.

This has been so helpful, and I’m right with Abby and Chris about Christopher about, you know, trying to outsource as much as possible.

And I know Abby, you are looking at a VA. So I think it’s I would love to really dive into this outsourcing because I think what I was hearing a little bit muddled was, you know, it’s like relinquishing control and what parameters because I think When I’ve heard of people who they start to outsource, they spend early days a lot of time trying to figure out a process. And that can be a really valuable time spent, but it’s also with the who you do that work with.

I’ve been cautioned about, you know, there’s a lot lost in translation that can happen when you’re when you’re partnering. So I know that, you know, the turning over some of this really important work that you mentioned is really my next step. And so I’d love to hear from the group or from anyone about the work of relinquishing control, I guess, as the mindset.

Yeah. I feel like that. And I I’d love for the groups to weigh in as well, but I feel like, that I I’m as I type a overachiever who, like I said, I’m anal about control, is what I realized is that I actually have more control more creative freedom when I’m not stressing over things that, you know, someone else can do and do well. I will say, though, and again, this is something for for future you that you wanna start thinking about is even before you hire, answer your question about processes, processes and systems, is you wanna start documenting your process. Right? This was really helpful.

For us when we hired is, like, just have well documented processes to share with whoever came on board. So they knew exactly what do and when, and that makes it really easy because it, you know, it’s a shorter runway.

Also for certain jobs, like, when you hire them out and you hire, like, say, research, for example, you’re hiring someone who is a research specialist, the runway is way shorter because they’ve already done so many projects. They work with so many different copywriters. They know different styles, and they’re really easy to work with. So that makes it that makes it much, much simpler too, which is why I’m a huge fan of asking your network peripherals, about people that they really enjoy working with.

That’s great. I think, I’d love to know, who those trusted people are within our network and, you know, building out maybe a directory of those people that we could turn to.

And then I think the last thing is out outside of the network is upwork or any of those places, reasonable places to go to from your experience.

Yeah.

Early days off of business, you hired a lot of people off of fiber. It was really great, especially with things like video editing or, like, quick graphic design jobs and illustrations and all of that. I’ve never personally heard from Upwork, but I’ve heard of some great people out of work as well. Like, people have had some great experience, there.

So Also, there’s a site called hire my mom, hire my mom dot com. That’s a that’s another really quick like, I her first hand from peers who’ve had great success, finding excellent people there as well. So, yeah, I would definitely say that. And Again, for, when you’re looking to hire, it would be great when you if you could, like, ask in the group and, you know, like, hey, I’m looking hire a VA or looking to hire an editor, does anyone have references, or referrals to, you know, kind of send my way.

So, yeah, we could obviously absolutely do that.

So just in terms of a source for for hiring, I’ve been in the ten x freelance copywriter group for, like, years. And anytime I’ve posted about, like, subcontracting opportunities there, I’ve gotten a ton of responses So, again, it, like, when I’m saying, like, there’s people who are already trained in, like, the copy hacker has approached to research.

You know, so you’re not, like, fully educating somebody who’s never heard of VOC or or something like that.

Exactly. Great idea, Katie.

I have, like, two questions up on this call.

Sorry.

Sure. Sure. No. Alika, give me just a minute. I wanted to answer Hannah’s question also, and then I’ll come to you.

So Hannah asked in the chat, I feel like an order for this kind of model to sell really well. You need right for tier clients on the list. Currently, my smallest list is a mix of people in my target audience and copywriters slash service providers. I wouldn’t engage my service for this.

So, for this, you mean, the package you currently have Hannah? It’s Hannah here. Yeah.

Hello?

Okay. I don’t know whether it had us here or not like Sorry, Elythea. I was about to ask, like, just get more clarity from from Hannah about her question because I saw that come up a short while ago. We let Hannah come back to us. I wanna get some more context around that.

Why did you go ahead?

Oh, no worries. So I have two questions and one is I’ve been, like, Two months ago, my dream was just a contract for operators because I wasn’t called with one of the leading operators right now. She’s a co she’s a coach of Galaxy. And then she told me her story about subcontracting subcontracting for another operator.

So the the thing that you’re all talking about research I wanna share the other side of the story that what Abby just said that the the research was all done for me, and I’ve really struggled with that. When I sat with the writing part. Like, because I I did not I had not done the research. Like, I had not gone and done the interviews.

I struggle a lot with, like, reading through all those heaps and heaps of transcripts.

Then, And although it was like an airtable and very organized, but I struggle with coming up with big ideas and specific VOC, which So how how do you overcome that when you’re writing and when the research is done? Like, do you read it again and again or especially when the the product or offer is not very familiar to them.

Okay.

So here’s the thing. So my research process essentially includes the VLC, which is your you know, survey data and your interview transcripts and your kickoff call transcript and all of that. Right?

But then the second part of my research is offer optimization where I go into their offer, and that is something I still do. It’s like I go through their I work with course creators, right, and coaches. So I essentially experience their course or service firsthand to get, a direct look at how a student will experience it.

So I am familiar with the offer of what with the research document as well. Like, here’s the thing, if you get them the way you would want it to be presented the way you kind of use your, like, how do you package your research so you present it to the client? And, you know, or how do you package your research so you use it?

Either which ways If you let your research, you know, assistant know that this is how you would want it, you would be starting with a done feed document. Would you have to read it Yes. But you don’t have to read all of the transcripts. I’ve I don’t read the transcript unless, of course, I wanna kind of double check something that, you know, or I wanna kind of get some more insight on a, you know, a particular, messaging area.

But or you don’t have to go through the surveys. You’d yeah. And the kickoff call is with you in any case. How our researchers can is done is I do a fairly in-depth kickoff call.

The client fills out an in-depth questionnaire, and then our research assistant takes over, does the interviews, survey responses, forum mining, coming through, like, competitor analysis, all that the research assistant does. And then they presented in a format that I wanted them to present it in because that is how I’ve been, you know, approaching my research. Like, after I’ve done all of this, I put it into, like, a fairly hefty document divided into, like, the usual sections, you know, your pains, wants, etcetera, etcetera. And then if it just yeah.

So they basically shortcut all of that for me. But it’s not like I don’t know the product because I do know it because I’ve gone through it. Sub contracting is different because you may not have contact with the client themselves. So I because I don’t subcontract, I can’t really speak to that experience.

And I have another question. And that is, like, I’ve been about hiring from day one. Like, even if it’s only been a year, I’ve hired multiple multiple things and also so what I do is, and I felt a little bit of resistance here. So when I hired for the first for three or four times. It was a higher class, bio class thing. And then I realized that I, I needed to add test like, so I added, like, a test project and or just just to see, like, if they’re fit for this job.

And there, I feel like some, like, beginners opt in for that, and then they don’t qualify.

But then the people who are actually doing great, they don’t opt in for that because they think that that, like, you know, I’m that other spammy because they’ve opted for other test projects and been, like, they’ve they’ve been born out for that. So how how do you deal with that? Like, how do you How would you approach that?

Because when I’ve hired someone with a test project, it has been, like, if someone is really qualified, it has been really beneficial for me through, like, clicking out the perfect person instantly.

But how do I encourage someone to do that? With all enthusiastic.

You you cannot.

It depends on the person who’s applying for the job. Right? Like, you cannot do the job of generating enthusiasm for applying for something for them. You can make it simpler and easier by laying out everything that they would have, what they would what you would expect, having clear expectations, also highlighting why they should wanna work with you and what what’s it for them, that kind of a thing. But beyond that, like, whether they decide to do a test project or not do a test project, essentially, up to them. Right?

I mean You recommend, like, doing a mini sales pages thing that that also walks them through, like, what’s in it for them?

No. I just do like a regular job ad. Like a well written job ad would be fine and as long as, you know, it just kind of you don’t need to sell them on sound working with you and for you to pay them. You need to sell them on, you know, the here’s why we need a test project here’s how it’s gonna help me understand and, you know, the the skill level you have and the expertise you have.

And, you know, the, you know, whether we’d be a good fit working together. So, so yeah, I would go with that. Again, full disclosure for us test projects have been for when we hired from Safe Fiber, and that test project has or up we are not work, but I would say if you have, I believe, wanna start with a single project, like a small project to see how it goes, look at turnaround times and all of that In other cases, how we’ve worked with it. It’s been with social media managers or VA’s or content support assistants or graphic designers or research assistants or, you know, editors, it’s always been we start with one project.

So we just do, like, one project, like a full project and see how that goes. Worst case scenario. It may help go really well, but then that’s just one project. Right?

And you’d never work with the contractor again.

Touch with. We’ve been very lucky. We’ve had a couple of, like, instances where we’ve not, you know, like, we’ve had, like, I think, literally say a couple of instances. But where, you know, contractors haven’t have dropped the ball have, like, literally ghosted us after, you know, saying yes and taking payments.

So, yes, it happens. But we’ve been very, very lucky with our team of contractors that we work with. So, yeah, very grateful for that. It’s been I know because it’s it’s hard hiring.

I completely agree. Thank you. That’s very helpful.

You’re welcome. Kaye said I color code everything by team. I think it’s a matter of figuring out the presentation in a way that works for your brain. Exactly.

Like, do you approach your research? Like, I always would categorize it into different categories. I needed it in, like, a Google Doc format. It’s presented to the client and like a very beautiful PDF, but I needed it like that.

And that is exactly how I get it, which makes it so much easier. So you need to figure out, like, when you are working on a copy project, how do you approach your research? Do you start by, like, going through everything and but do you document everything? Like, where does where does that documentation happen?

And that is what you need someone to do for you when they’ve done all of the other parts of the research.

Okay, Hannah, I had a couple of questions around context for your, you know, what you said about, I feel like in order for this kind of file to sell really well. You need to, like, right fit target audience clients on the list. So when you said your, your current list is a mix of people in your target audience and copywriters who that wouldn’t get your service with this, but you can still sell to people in their target audience. Right?

And then you say they’re assuming your package. Correct?

So I’m just I’m just saying that, like, I haven’t done much of this kind of setting because I feel like my list is so It’s not such a big list, but it’s like mixed of I have some of the right fit lines in there and some not. So I would have to do you segment when you send out when you have Yes.

Yes. I would feel like when I’m going to send out this kind of, to do such a fun, I would have it first focus on growing. Like you said at the beginning, going to list with the right fit to help people on the list. Yeah. I would say that too, and I would also say that segment you’ll list right away. Like, if you’d know you have a mix of charter audience clients. I would, again, do not wait for when it reaches a decent number, segment them right now.

And let them know that, hey, you know, I if you are a whoever your target audience is, if you’re this, you know, and would like to know more about what I have coming up in twenty twenty four, like, right now. So, you know, just click here and my email automation would do the rest. That kind of thing, and then you just tag them. So you have that signal building away.

Then you can set up your sales sequence to go to that segment. Right.

Cool.

Katie had a question.

Sure. We’re a little over time, but if everyone’s cool with it, we can stick around and answer Katie’s question about creating a package. Go ahead.

Okay. So I think, like, this may be beyond the scope of this call. So feel free to, I’m like, I’ve got today to to work on this kind of thing, but, my current audience is like coaches, experts, course creators, and Through conversations with Joe about my Red thread, we had talked about, like, what I currently do being profitable signature offers, so a lot of for optimization, like core messaging and sales pages and and funnels, but wanting to create some IP that’s applicable to a broader audience potentially into ecomm I can like see all of the big picture of that, but just when I think about like a q one sales plan, I’m totally lost on what to sell to my existing audience now that also allows me to be like ticking the boxes on our you know, our, like, towards celebrity status, spreadsheet because it feels like I would have to be creating content for the business I have now and creating content for the future business, which I just don’t have capacity to do.

So I guess my question is like, do you have any tips on the packages to bridge that gap or like finding kind of the overlap in the Venn diagram between where we are now and where we’re, like, hoping to go in the in the context of this program.

Oh, oh, I think you’re muted.

You wanna you are sorry. You wanna start working with e commerce businesses on their the entire profitable offer suite. So their offers and then their sales copy on their emails. Is that right? And right now you’re working with coaches and course creators on a similar thing.

Yes.

So there’s your overlap. It’s the outcome. Right?

Like, it’s the Well, I guess it’s not my question.

I guess I’m like, do I because you work with course creators. Do you Like, if I want to go as big as this, like, if I wanna go as big as possible, is there space to do that in the coach’s course creators realm, or do you think that it’s easier to have a, like, bigger outcome from the bigger pie that is e commerce.

You are asking the wrong person because, like, I believe, yes, there is a lot of scope in the coaching and course creation industry.

It honestly, we could we should have this conversation in Slack as well, but the point is, like, I feel like there’s a lot of the coaching and course create create an industry. You don’t wanna just look at your marketing coaches. Right? You wanna look at beyond that like this. So much learning happening. There are courses for for equine business owners. There are courses for, you know, like, in all the finishes.

That’s one of the reasons why I, you know, never need to down per se to something like a specific as I write for female marketing coaches, you know, So Yeah.

So, yes, there is. Oh, is e commerce a more profitable, Leech?

Maybe, maybe not. Like, define profitable. Right? Right? Is it profitable for you? Is it profitable for, in terms of, like, the people who are hiring?

Like, what is yeah. I mean, like, for me, I feel like it’s very profitable.

Okay. And also from, Katie, the other deciding factor for personally for me is also the the stress level when working on a project. I find because I’ve worked with with EdTech, where you have, like, multiple state stakeholders. I have also worked with e commerce as well. So I I work a lot of e commerce intact.

Before I focused, kind of focused on the coaching industry.

I find that stress levels in this industry way less because they’re very fewer stakeholders in the project. Right? It’s usually the person behind the brand and maybe they’re OBM and maybe someone, you know, like, a CTO or a marketing person, but Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Probably it’s moved much faster.

Okay. Thank you. That’s all really good food for thought.

So I’ll be I’ll do in Slack on this as well. Yes.

Please. Please. I, you know, yeah.

Tag me and post it in Slack, and I’m, like, I love coming up with packet ideas. So, yeah, happy to help.

Christopher’s last question for the day, SLP, do you pay them? Have you ever yes. Yes.

Have created them myself and lately have had, like, our community concierge. I totally is transitioning into full time research right now. So she created all one of the SOPs for the person who will be coming into the community conflict role because she’s been doing all of it. Right?

Like, so, it just made sense for her to document everything. And she’s also documented. She used to do our comment content, support thing as well, like the blog post uploading and, you know, sending out the email you said, all of that. So she’s documented SOPs for for all of all of that.

So but the initial SOPs that I gave her were created by me. So when you do bring in someone, you could you can definitely have that conversation with them that, hey, I would love for you to document your workflow and your, you know, the whole process as you go along so that it becomes easier for us to know how things are going, and if there are any gaps, then we need to fill them. But, yes, you can do it both ways.

Both. Thank you.

Awesome. Everybody, great call. Great seeing y’all, and I will catch you inside.

Alright.

Before we begin, these launches are not essential. You can sell your product services or your package offers without doing a launch launch. The idea, however, is that you do need to share them in some way. I call them launches because that’s, you know, that’s how I approach them, and that’s how we in the past sold, these packages, especially when they’ve been, you know, like brand new, or, when we know we would like to say see the next quarter booked out. So you would still see me doing that, a lot of times with the newer packages that we launch.

So getting straight to it. The first stop, this is the launch that I have probably used the most because this is really great for high ticket offers.

And it has natural urgency because with the high ticket offer, you generally put a cap on the number of spots because there’s only so many that you can take, or you can give them, like, an extended payment plan.

Something that we’ve done in the past is we’ve prebooked clients and each, like, given them, like, say, a six month or a nine month or even a twelve month period to use the package, which means they can book it, say, in January, they can keep paying for it over time. Let’s say they wanna launch in September. I’m talking about, like, the fully loaded course package. Right?

So we can if, you know, we can give them, like, an extended payment plan. So they they’re paying we’re getting paid in advance in any case. Before we even kick off the project. Right? So we they get, like, that extended payment plan as well. So I love limited urgency focused launches for obvious reasons.

But, yeah, it totally depends on what you want. So You can create urgency for your launch by using any of the following, offering a special payment plan. Like I just told you about limiting the number of spots because, you know, well, you have. It’s like a high touch service generally. And then making the package available only for a limited time. So when the fir when the very first time I launched, the fully loaded launch package.

It was not a high dynamic variety standard. Any one of you who’s watched my tutorial Tuesday knows exactly how much I charge for it. To begin with. It was what it included, you know, underpriced. However, let it also be known that it was my first time offering that package. I had never done something like that before. So I feel like there’s basically what Maikan and I thought was, like, let’s test the waters and see.

It obviously all sold out really, really fast. So that time, what we’ve done is we’d like kind of just post it on social, and I’ll talk about that in a bit too. But we’d limited the time that people could, you know, have for signing up for this. So you can, you know, create urgency in many different ways. You don’t always have to discount your package.

You can choose to combine two or even all of these to run an urgency focused launch.

So what are the copy assets that you need for this? Your opt in page, your sales page goes without saying you need thank you pages for both of these, but All of your smart people, you know that, emails, blog posts, and I’ll come to that in a bit, and then social media updates. If you’re using a shopping cart, for a prioritized service, you obviously need that too, for most of our packages. We do not use a shopping cart, especially for our high ticket packages.

So, basically, because we either, help, you know, let people pay over time so that, you know, if they wanna spread their payments out, or sometimes we need to customize it even further. So so there you go. But anyway, these are, like, the copy assets that you need, or you may wanna use. I hesitate from things absolutely be because sometimes you don’t need a blog post.

I’m just sharing everything that I’ve used in the past. So often, you wanna create a simple opt in form. This is not the opt in form we’ve used in the past. This is just an example of the opt in form we currently have on the site, but point is you wanna create a simple opt in form and to collect your leads, especially if you’re gonna be using blog posts that are specific or social media updates that are specific to your product type service.

A sales page. We’ve already talked about what a sales page could look like for a productized service in, one of the previous sessions. So, if you haven’t watched that, I would highly recommend watching it, but tweet as your sales pitch needs to let prospects know what it is, who’s it for, how can they, you know, use it, what the benefit in it for them? Why do they need it? And why do they need it now?

Because remember, this is an urgency focused launch.

And then let’s talk emails. So these are emails that we’ve, you know, used in the past, and have had really, really great results with for, especially even for, especially, not even for, especially for high ticket packages. So the teaser email is the email that kind of goes goes ahead of time, letting people know what’s coming up. It also gives people who are not interested in the package to opt out. The second is, of course, the launch email, which is, you know, like Gmail. It’s a plural sales email.

And then I have the four f emails. I love creating frameworks pretty much everything. It just makes it easier for me to remember what I’m supposed to be, right, writing in those emails. So first step is my fans and followers emails, which is essentially a social proof email, testimonials, social proof, for p, you know, from people who’ve used your services or if you’re, you know, it’s a tested out product type service who’ve used their service before.

The FAQ email, again, fairly standard. You wanted to move objections by answering their questions, and then they’ve got the future pacing email, which shows them what their life is gonna be or their business is gonna be once they worked with you. And then we’ve got the final countdown emails. So very, very standard emails, and there’s not, you know, like a lot of you don’t wanna get too complicated with them.

Couple emails that we’ve also occasionally used include the authority emails and then grab the bonus email, which are which is both great. Like, if you have authority content, or you’ve got you’re offering a bonus.

Again, something that we’ve also done with our packages in the past. For instance, like last year, I did a Flash sale spritzer package that sold out really fast. It was, you know, basically a package for writing emails a flash sale and the bonuses that I included were, social media blurbs, not full blown posts. No.

Social media posts and then blurbs and news, you know, to use in your newsletter or or even as short social media captions. So why did it include those bonuses because it was they were really easy to create. I’m writing the emails in any case. I can choose full social media copy from those emails itself.

And it kind of removes the hesitation and objection that our audience has, that my audience may have around the Flash sale emails. But, okay, I’m doing this Flash sale, how do I promote it? Well, I’ve got you covered.

So, yep, grab the bonus email. We’ll be one of those. Yep. Money.

Hi. Quick question for you. I’m, I’ve never done a lot before. So and I was asking about software and etcetera. So for somebody who’s, like, never gonna launch.

Where do you start? I guess that’s where maybe there’s more courses I should be taking back in copy school. But if you were like an absolute beginner because, I’ve never launched a package, I’ve Mhmm.

Where where is there, like, a good how to or checklist guide because I feel a little bit lost to be frank. When I I go through this, I’m like, oh my god. I have done none of these, and I don’t know where to go to get you know, frameworks or starting points.

So that’s and maybe I’m the only person in the room that has that, but that’s where That’s a really good question.

So for a launch like this, right? You could use you if you have an email list You could use your ESP for sending out the emails. It’s that simple. You don’t need any fancy software.

You can just use the email system you’re using to send out emails to your list. If you, let’s say, do not have an email list, you can use social media. I I know you started posting on LinkedIn and use your sync script. Traction with it as well.

I have a social only launch as well that I’ll share with you in just a bit that you can just use social media to sell your, you know, productize service.

For the sales page or the opt in page, all you need is basically like your website. Right? You can They got opt in page would be on our website. Our sales page is on our website. So as long as you have a website and ESP, or an email service provider, and like a social platform.

You’re good. And, of course, oh, wait. We accept payments from people. Honestly, like, Aleafia’s recommended, click funnels, click files is, it’s great.

But it’s okay.

Oh, okay. Has that even used click funnels. Yeah. I haven’t used click funnels personally, but I do have clients who’ve used click funnels. It offers way too much for what you all need to sell product. I service selling productized services is the lowest tech.

Kind of launch that you can never think of as long as, like I said, as long as you have a website, you have an ESP, and you have a social platform and a way to accept payments from people.

You’re golden.

It’s such a hackathon.

Well, because it’s interesting that you asked that question about click funnels because there’s go high level. And then there’s Exactly. Yep. And glow go high level, which is really interesting about it, allows you to like, as a full service with email, I think hosting.

Yeah.

I’m It said Quick address as I do.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it would be really interesting at what people thought about that as an option because it’s sort of like the all in one built in I don’t know how efficient it is to do these kind of email sequences, but if the software itself, is an all in one solution would be interesting.

Yeah. Funnel gorgeous. Katie said is another one. So quick funnels, funnel gorgeous, go high level, even kajabi for that matter. You know, they are all all in one solutions.

If that’s what your business needs, definitely look at them.

The re so what I would kind of caveat this with is the last thing you wanna do is over complicate your tech stack.

So you want your tech stack to be as simple and efficient for you to be able to use and lean on as your business grows. And also Also, where most importantly, you want your tech stack to make you feel comfortable and not intimidated.

The What I find that happens with a lot of our clients is, like, especially with things like kajabi or or click funnels, or even funnel gorgeous because I did have a plan who used funnel gorgeous is that they need to bring in someone to be able to set things up for them, to be able to, you know, do a lot off the back and work for them. If you’re cool with that, that’s great.

I personally like to know how my website works. So even if, say, our tech team, we both have a tech support person and a designer and a developer.

If they were to say be sick or unveiled, I can go in and really make sure everything’s running running smoothly, which is probably why we haven’t moved to all in one solution also is because Everything is speaks well to each other. Our website is on WordPress.

Our ESP can work our social platforms are obviously all sorted. So we didn’t really see the need for it. So definitely explore the solutions, but then make a decision that feels good and comfortable for you. Because, Do you need all of these to sell, you know, your your packages?

No. You don’t.

I’m proof of that. I have so many other, copywriters who who don’t use any of these. As long, like I said, you need your website. Yes.

You need your email service provider. Yes. Need a social platform. Yes. You need a way to accept payments.

Yes.

If your current tech stack is doing the job and you’re happy with it, that’s fine.

Katie, said, I use ConvertKit Squarespace and Triclip launches. There you go. Yeah. Triicot is what we use as shopping, car too. So one time payment and has an integrated app. Jessica Business Center once had system before software. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Cool. That was a really, really great question you asked me. Thank you so much for asking. And, yep, Chris, you’re right. Click files is seen up as a bit. It is, you know, it’s got, it’s got, Russell Brunson behind it, who is the author of quick final, oh, sorry, expert secrets as well. He’s a smart marketer, but some of the things that they do don’t just sit right, with with McAfee personally, which is why we don’t use the calls for us.

Cool. Great discussion. Alright.

So, yes.

Moving on.

Quick notes about blog post authority content.

All of you here are supposed to be building a authority. How I was not supporting the, you know, when I was starting out was was with block posts, which is why I lean on them heavily I since have added a lot of other, elements to our authority plan, but block host is what I I still love a lot and use heavily for both launches or or for, sharing our services and all of that. See, again, you can choose which you wanna leverage to share your content, I choose walkways. You could choose a podcast. You could choose a YouTube channel. But point is you do need to build your authority.

Preferably on a platform that you also own because, yes, social is great.

That social is a fickle friend.

Social will change at the turn off a hat, and, you don’t want to put all your eggs in one social basket.

So which brings me to social media posts. I four sharing our services, our packages, you will find. I usually lean on the, what I call, the ABC firm framework. It just makes it very easy for me to create social content as well.

Katie, I think it asked me in the Slack group, how it creates social content I use, for me, it’s really simple. Authority but it’s called action kind of a thing. So authority is like blog post point of view. You’ll see a lot of my point of view posts on social, like takes and things like that, and also just, you know, value content, buzz posts are, you know, behind the scenes, T as opposed.

These are launch specific.

General assignment field updates that you about what you’re working on. Again, you’ll see a lot of these in the Instagram stories.

Call the action post for your, for your package or your productized service would be like, okay. Here’s what you’re gonna get. And then, you know, you also wanna do a few playout updates. Like, oh, I’ve sold these many spots, and I’ve only got one spot left. Again, you’ll see me me do a lot of this on on Instagram, which is the social platform of choice for me. Like, it is our main platform, then I’ve since added in LinkedIn.

And a little bit of Facebook and threads. But, yeah, Instagram and LinkedIn is pretty much where it’s at.

Now this is the list building Evergreen launch. This is like a lovely launch to give you more. If you have a service, productized service or a package that you sell as a subscription model.

So back in the day, we used to have a service, package service, project service called grab and go. Those were essentially done for you social media captions. I think they used to be oh gosh. I think they used to be, like, sixty of them that we used to do for a client.

They used to be custom creative for them, but we used to get them, like, all sixty. We were not responsible for posting them, but they would have, like, and they would not, like, templates or anything. They were, like, custom created social media updates that they could use to, you know, populate on the probably their social media feeds. It was a subscription based thing because it used to cover them for three months, if they were to post x number of times.

And that it so well. So for something like that, this was a a launch that worked really, really well.

So here’s what you need for this is, again, same assets just kind of slightly flipped over. So social media updates Facebook ads if you wanna run those, again, haven’t run those for our productized services, but feel free to do so. Which take people to the opt in page or the opt in content, which could be a blog post. You’re right, where they have the option of opting in.

And then when they opt in, your email sequence kicks in that sells them into your prioritized service. Which is the sales page.

Again, copy asset, social media updates, five to seven to kind of cycle through. Optent page and a raw content with content upgrades essentially means, they need to probably their email address to get some additional content or just to kind of, you know, know more about your service. You could just give it very clear and simple.

You know, sequence, obviously, sales page.

The emails, updates, and block content for this, like I said, are exactly the same as they were for the emergency launch. It’s just a different flow, and it’s on autopilot.

And you kind of just keep sending people to your opt in, and then getting them to sign up for your subscription based service.

This money is what I was talking about is the social only launch? This is how I launched our fully loaded launch. Happy package the first time ever. This is how I launch.

I’ve launched a lot of different packages since, something that you need to know about me is I am a huge believer in the launches of least resistance. I like to do something that feels easy to me is fast to execute and doesn’t take a ton of time. So this is one of those things. It’s a minimal effort, massive ROI launch.

It works for just about any kind of package or productized service.

It’s a good launch model to use when your email list is not too big. It’s tiny or maybe like a midsize list, but you do have an engaged social media presence.

So it’s also, like I said, ideal if you wanna be that has to package. Right? You don’t wanna create a full blown, like, all of the emails and social media copy and all of that before you launch it. So it’s a really, really great package to use.

You could use I’ve I’ve used Instagram for this. I’ve used Facebook for this. I haven’t used LinkedIn for this. So I will yeah.

But both Facebook and Instagram work really, really well for this. So, it can be both urgency driven or or Evergreen.

Cool. Copy assets. You need to focus and engage presence on one or two social network You need social media updates. Of course, it’s a social only launch.

You need your sales page. Again, caveat, you don’t need a design sales page. It could be a Google doc sales page. I’ve shared a Google doc sales page a previous call with you.

Again, low tech, very, you know, easy to pull together. So that, and then you know, here’s how you wanna kind of plan it out.

You wanna start at least two weeks before you wanna start selling. Your package. So why? Because, again, like I said, social is can be a fickle friend.

So not everyone’s gonna see your updates And when you post them and not everyone will see all updates either. Right? So give yourself some time to kind of I keep two weeks. You may wanna test out a short appear, but two weeks is what’s worked for for both for us.

You need to have multiple updates, and you’re hoping to have multiple types of updates again, photos, texts, videos of your overlap. And again, the three ABC goals, you want authority, buzz call it action. Once you again created those updates, give yourself two weeks to share those updates.

Share them on platforms of your choice. And like I said, I repurpose and repurpose both stuff all the time. I highly recommend. So just kind of adapt them to suit the platform of your choice.

How you wanna split it is week one is authority and buzz. Right? Because you’re sharing, why are you the best person for this package? What’s your point of view?

How is your process different? What kind of proof do you have? All of those things? What’s happening?

How are you working on restructuring this, etcetera, etcetera. Right? And then you start showing up at the peak because it’s, you know, you built thirty posts tend to build a large engagement as well. So do buzz posts.

That’s the whole idea here.

We do is a combination of buzz and call it action. So you still continue with updates on, you know, social proof and what’s, you know, your own excitement around the the package of secrets and tips and all of those things. And the last half is going to be all about a push to sales. So three to five days.

So if you’ll have, like, a five day week, gotta keep day one and two for buzz, you know, if this is coming, keep them your eye open to this. It’s gonna have, like, I’m gonna have only three spots, etcetera, my past clients have shown. Obviously, you don’t wanna lie. If past clients have shown interest, you wanna kind of talk about that.

If they haven’t, then, you know, you wanna say I’m gonna be limiting spots because it’s gonna be very, you know, high touch, etcetera. And then the last half is gonna be called the action to push sales. If you’re using the sales page, all the action updates will include the link to the sales page, whether it’s a Google Doc or a new website. If you’re not using a sales page, again, you don’t need one for this.

You can ask them to message you or comment on your post, and then you can, like they say, take it to the DMs.

For most of these productized services or packages, the card open duration is around three to five days.

Caliet, as always, depending on your audience, your niche, the service that you’re actually offering all of those things. So just kind of keep that in mind. You know your audience and your business best. You can always put your specific business and productized service ID. You can always lean on us in CSP to kind of say, okay. I’m thinking five days, but I feel like my audience may need more time to decide What should I do? And then, yep, happy to lay in.

If you keep keep the card open for three to five days off for your package, This may seem a bit excessive to y’all. I would recommend, though, share a call to action update during the current twice or even twice a day at different times. Your audience knows you’re in launch mode.

People totally understand and respect that. Let them know that you’re letting them you’ll be letting them know that before, you know, during the authority building phase as well. And again, remember, not everyone is gonna see all your updates.

Not everyone is gonna see all the updates. So they’re not gonna it’s just the nature of the game. So it’s okay. I know you may feel like, I’m posting too much.

Trust me a lot. So just enjoy enjoy the process here.

So I want you to keep some of the teams in mind during the social media launch, you wanna encourage people to comment and our message you to engage with you. You wanna be responsive to those comments and likes, like and reply. Always, this you should be doing in any case, but especially during the launch.

Please create your updates in advance. However, be prepared to do a few on the fly updates as well. For instance, you had someone snap up a package. Right? That isn’t on the fly. I think. You may, someone who signed up, you know, gives you permission to share that they’ve signed up to work with you.

There’s an update, or it could just be, you know, yeah, you know, this is me having a good time while my service launch is going on.

Some of those on the fly updates are great from behind the scenes and also for for social proof and credibility.

How do you decide which one’s perfect for you? Depends on your season of life. I’m a huge believer in that. Your productized service positioning and your own secret superpowers. And what do I mean? Season of Life?

You need to think about do you have a lot going on? Is it relaxed with, you know, more manageable responsibilities on the client and family fronts?

Or is it a really busy season right now? Do you have a lot on your plate? Your season like is super important to take into account when you’re creating a launch time, not just for this, but for anything that you may be launching in the future, whether it’s your workshops, whether it’s your course, whether, you know, anything.

So there’s no fun in launching while you’re feeling kind of stressed out and exhausted or overwhelmed.

And again, after working on, countable number of launches, there is no right or wrong way to launch. You don’t even have to make a big sum and dance about launching this. You would just do an under the radar launch, aft and plenty of those as well. But point is you do need to share your productized service or package when you have it ready with the people who may be the best fit for it.

Offer positioning is your package exclusive and high ticket urgency launch, maybe the best option. Is it a subscription based service? Like I said, you know, it may be do a social only blast or do an evergreen for it. Is it a starter package?

Like an audit? Great. Put it on Evergreen. You can mix and match things. You can create your own hybrid version of it.

But keeping your positioning in mind can help you create a launch plan that gives it the greatest chance of succeeding.

And then your own secret super powers. This is really important. Now if you don’t enjoy social, don’t do a social on your launch. Like, in our business, Mike and I, Bank wouldn’t even have a Facebook account if it weren’t for the business.

I mean, he’s not a social person. Social media person. He’s a social person. He’s not a social media person.

At all. I, on the other hand, can live and breathe social media all day long. I love it. It’s a happy place.

So for me to do a social and relaunch, when we first launched started doing our prototype services and packages made complete sense because I thrive on it.

For you, maybe using your email list may be a good idea. So maybe go and agree with your packages, or maybe you’re really great at outreach and writing, you know, emails to connect with as clients or pitch the core pitches. I think Oh, it feels great at that. Right? So leverage that point is create you could create your own hybrid launch model, right, just decide what works best for you, but decide as soon as you create your package and decide right now because overthinking your launch isn’t going to do you any favors. Alright. That’s it for me.

Let’s just chat.

Can I can I ask a question about the timeline of the urgency launch? And specifically, like, you mentioned the blog post of the authority content, and then the opt in How far in advance would you share that blog post and often before you went into your urgency or your email sequence?

Yeah. For the urgency launch, what I would do is I would write in a blog post.

I would keep like a let me just pour some water for myself.

I would keep, like, a four week period, essentially. I would write my blog post, send it out to the email list, send out shared on social, get some people signing up for, you know, the, like, an interest list of things, and then keep my usual three to five day card open period. This isn’t an ideal situation, Katie.

Sometimes And this is more probably me. You may be better at this than I am. I sometimes get a great idea. Discussed it tonight, he’s, like, on board with it. And then I decide that we need to launch it. So so I write up a quick Google Doc Saleslate. I literally did this today.

I write up a good quick Google Doc Saleslate, and then what I do is I will keep, like, earmarked a five day period to start talking about it on social. So my social launches are all urgency for the launches.

But if you have the time, I would say, kind of be smart about it.

Like, do your blog post first week of the month, do your blog post and let you email us get people talking about it week, you know, use week two for your the authority of the buzz updates. And week three, you could use for, you know, your buzz and call to action updates. That’s how it would be like a smarter way. To do it. But again, if you let me have lots of great ideas, I wanna test them out, do a social only low lift launch.

And when you have to often sorry, friend. When you have that often, are you are you having, I mean, generally? Are you having people opt in for a freebie or for to hear more about the offer that you’ve teased in the blog post?

Both.

Both.

I, for instance, I share let me actually show you this in.

An option. So before I launched ready to sell, Right?

I had a blog post that was all about selling evergreen courses.

And it’s like a fairly detailed post.

You’ll see this this often right here is not for ASL, but earlier, this often was for, if you’d need my help to write your evergreen funnel, get on our wait list for when I open up, you know, the I have the excitingly evergreen package, so it was for that. So I used to do specific freebies. Like I shared with you earlier, it just became very confusing. And then those rebies would not be updated, and I would be like, all like, you know, I don’t have the time to kind of work on them.

So I just went with this. It’s been working. So I guess, plus, you know what, I realized, like, people who opt in without getting a freebie are actually genuinely interested in learning about your sources. So or your program.

So, yeah.

Thanks. That’s really helpful.

You’re welcome. Abby, I know you asked the same thing. What are they opting in for? You could give them a specific you know, and offer specific opt in.

Like, for instance, let’s say you are you have the day when evergreen thing. Right? Like, so you could give them, like, say, hey, here’s how you could do an audit. To see if your offer is ready to go Evergreen from day one.

That could be your freebie, but, personally, I don’t they just opt in to be the first to know when I have availability.

So, yeah.

Any other questions about launching your productized services and packages about structuring them, anything else?

I I have another question if nobody else wants to go.

I would love to know, like, how do you decide what, what becomes a productized service versus what is just your bespoke packages. Like, for example, fully loaded launch, you know, how do you reconcile doing like a custom launch strategy for people versus them buying fully loaded launch and having that kind of set menu. Okay. Good.

Good. Good question. Alright.

So For me, essentially, it is about solving a problem for applying.

Like, what would be What would make it an easy yes for them?

Like I just shared with you, I’m, like, literally right now about to beat a test new package for our existing clients who want more from us. So I will keep you posted with how that goes, but essentially we look at what what are people? What do people need the most? What does our audience need the most?

Can we give it to them in a way that’s effective and efficient for us? Is the last thing you wanna do? It’s like, let yes. We can give them the world on a pattern but is that sensible?

No. Right? So how can we do that? And once we kind of figure that out, that’s when something becomes a prioritized service.

Going back, for instance, I used to have an affiliate swipe copy package. Again, it was because, you know, I had a lot of people approaching me like, hey, have dig I have a digital product. This is gonna, again, we were working, as social media managers and content creators essentially. Right?

So we had like a lot of our clients were bloggers, and all of them had, like, ebooks and, you know, like, digital products, workbooks, and things like that that they that affiliates were selling for them. So we had an affiliate swipe copy package for them that would give them, like, say, for affiliate emails, it would give the their affiliates, it would, it would to use a swipe copy, for selling their products.

And from those emails, it became easy for me to pull social media updates.

So I did that. And then What I did was, which was like a one time thing was create, a PDF with, you know, fifteen different ways to promote so and so is a affiliate product. So, basically, those ideas were transferable because the audiences, like, our clients essentially all had, like, nine dollar, nineteen dollar, twenty nine dollar ebooks. So it was easy.

So, essentially, what how we approach this is What’s the problem we’ll be solving for our clients? And how can we do it in a way that’s effective and efficient for us? Because, again, we wanna stick to our our internal hourly rate. Yeah.

Does that help? Cool.

Monique, what courses in copy school are the best to watch, for prioritized services?

I think that’s more, a free Yeah.

I’ll I’ll elaborate on that because I, I feel like I’m going cold into the launch of, like, creating a and I had on Slack, which I saw thank you for your comment about workshop versus productized service.

And have two different types of services or products in mind.

A little bit about, like, where do you prioritize which one first? Because when you’re starting to in that early stage to do both, it’s a question of prioritizing one over the other. And I was just curious if there’s something that you know, as a how to walk me through a guide if there was something that I just missed in Copy school that I could go refer to.

I think.

So what you would need help with is Looking at what to launch or how to launch? What would be most helpful for you?

Well, both actually went to launch, like, in what stage and what order to go for a productized service versus going at it from a workshop perspective. So what was yeah.

I feel like, you know, I feel like what Joe’s doing in freelancing school would probably be a better fit for this. I haven’t had a chance to watch the what rise, sessions, but I believe he did some sessions on as part of master of product type services. I think that would be a better place to start, but I’d like the group weigh in on this, like, for those of you who’ve seen this or who are, you know, who’ve seen freelancing school because I think all of you have access to it as well. Right?

I haven’t been into freelancing school, but it sounds like in terms of developing product based services that rise recent sessions would be the best fit and then ten x launches, I think, is still available. And, Mike, if you’re looking for, like, an overview of, like, what launch emails to send to different phases or, you know, like, I think that’s probably your best bet.

Okay. Yeah. Great.

Perfect.

And you have questions on the blog, Printa’s own resources are amazing. So go on Printa’s blog, and check out your content.

I love that. I haven’t been here in your blog.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. No. I’m a big blog person.

So, alright. Any other questions?

Jessica, read everything Thank you. Okay. All of you. This is very nice. Thank you.

I’m glad I asked the question.

Perfect.

Okay. Cool. Anyone else got a prioritized service idea? You wanna run past me or a question about launching one. Go ahead. You have time.

Hi. I’m gonna offer some a question and maybe it’s an observation at the same time. On LinkedIn, has anybody turned on their product services, feature, and I don’t know how many are you aware of it, like, have you had anything come through it?

Is it I have like What what, you know, what are you getting value from that?

I know there’s a lot of hidden features on LinkedIn in a way if you don’t know about you don’t know to use them.

Any questions about that would be your answers to that would be insights talking about that that view by store button.

Are you talking about that one?

Yeah. Like, all you profile, it can say right under your, in the head in the header section. I will call it up front before a vote.

That’s the number for You want me?

Yeah. That’s available for premium users.

Yeah. I have that access. Yeah.

So it’s just the the first. So it changed recently, like, I think two months ago. So first, there was a custom link where you had to go on your and someone have to click customer link, but now that the button has, now that they have the button, so you post anything and then anyone reading your post can see that button so they can go directly to that click your website or there are only three options or blog portfolio website and store is here. Okay.

And have you found that anything has come of that? You know, just out of curiosity? Is it is it actually a pathway that should be considered.

Going to ask that to pre prenup because last time she taught the application funnel and the product has launched. I did I didn’t write my sales stage, and I I never knew that there’s something associated with me, but I guess I didn’t don’t do a cart open cart close to it. But I think I wrote, like, ten days ago, and then I’d be promoting it. And I’ve got like three times the amount of sales calls I usually get from midterms.

I don’t think. About seven days ago, I had no clients, no goals. When I backed up the new year. And then some because when people check my call emails, they go to my LinkedIn and then I don’t know if it’s exactly this button, but the sales page, Google Docsales page.

It did work, but have this one question regarding that that, the current launch package, it’s like I’m doing two offers. One is not not available to people like on on the sale space, which is they pay upfront and then they pay a small amount upfront and then it’s performance based. Have you go to the hot seat section, Ryan Shane had been shamed here at his business model. So it’s really curious to try that since I don’t have those many case studies.

So and it did work really well because I got like two really Really big names would would have ever said yes. Without that, one is Dave Sharp and second Jira got stuck if anyone is familiar.

So they replied to that saying that mister Smith.

But I’m curious that if, like, you share your your high ticket packages on the law firm’s sales page or you get them to a call.

Because Oh, gosh. I don’t know if on the sales page, people are resistant.

Okay.

Yeah. For me, okay. I’m sorry. I I interrupted you. How you feel, but, yeah, for me and, those are, like, Jessica and Katie, and Abby, if you’ve seen the site, you would know that I do share our pricing on the sales. But for me, it’s very important to not get on a call and have people get or shock.

So it’s not a good use of their time or mine for that matter. So, so, yeah, I’m, again, always, we’ve always always, even when we do not have high ticket packages or news, but, always had our pricing on the sales, which just kind of makes our life so much simpler. But I’m sure there is, like, again, a case to be made. So you gotta test it out for yourself. You’ve noticed that people are getting on calls and saying yes to you, so I haven’t stick know, you’re not keeping it off the sales very quick. Whatever was for you.

Yeah.

I love that.

I just looked at your And I saw that you put on store and you put a Google Doc.

That’s I hadn’t seen that. Did anyone do that? Honestly, it’s more the product I or the product services. So good for you. That’s really great idea.

I guess you can’t tell how many people are clicking on that.

Yeah. Yeah. That that’s the thing.

You can’t tell the clicks, a, I’ve put a little video so so that I’ve hacked, like, okay, how many people are seeing the Oh, as you mentioned.

Nice. Nice idea.

How many people are clicking? But here’s the question. So people who are only booking the calls are being nurtured via the DMs. And then someone said that you should, like, if it’s this high ticket, you should not reveal the price. I would really like to know, like, how do you approach it? Because in the launch space, some people are saying that or like fifteen k for now, the economy is really downturn and nobody wants to see that unless they’re getting coached on a sales call.

To to really justify the price point. Like, what I would just like to have a conversation about that. What are your thoughts?

I love for the group to kinda weigh in. My thoughts are very straightforward on this.

I’ve closed packages, upwards of fifty k, even a even a hundred k, with a proposal and not a sales call. Like, I mean, I’m just, like, people have come in knowing that, okay, yes, I wouldn’t call it a sales call. It’s more like a, you know, like a what I call our our copy chat where I go in, ask about their the project scope, So so when we sign our hundred k copy project, and then after that, I did another one for eighty k, it was exactly like that. Like, I went in, got the scope, let them know that, you know, they’d come in knowing, you know, what our where our pricing starts.

And also, like, say, the fully they their scope, I had to create proposal to them because their scope was so big that I needed to create proposal. Otherwise, if I can avoid it, I will avoid creating a proposal.

But in both cases, none of the clients had any you know, like, oh, so your sales pitch is like how much? There’s no there was no none of that, you know, because they knew, you know, what we charge. They so that is my argument. Again, very, very important for something to you, and I think everybody know is that you will always find people making an argument for and against something in business, and that’s probably why they fall, you know, you can call them best practices.

Like, people say, oh, the best practice is to do this, but the point is we can make those best practices better for us. So how do you do that? You do that. I’ve seen what works well for you.

For me, it doesn’t And I also tried, like, for my company, for us, it’s very important to build a business that aligned with our values for us financial stewardship and transparency. Super important. So which is why we’ve never charged interest for payment plans, but then something that people always say you should do is like, oh, you know, you’re giving a payment plan for your program, admin costs. So you need to try or The worst is PayPal fees.

You need to bill your client for PayPal fees. Like, your service fees needs to do, like, kind of, that’s Those are the things that I have very, you know, like my hot takes on. But point is it’s not the only way to do something. It’s not this is just what’s working for us.

So I’d love for the group to weigh, and I’m gonna shut up right now.

Yeah. I just wanted to add, I think, as well, when working with coaches, it’s just it’s like about getting in front of the ones that see fifteen k, like, the way that we see, like, a hundred and fifty dollars.

Like not everyone’s gonna see that. I’d be like, whoa, like, if they’re making, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars a month, then it’s like, they’ll see that. I’m gonna be like, oh, cool. So, yeah, I think it’s it’s just getting in front of those people. Like, I’m only just starting to, like, comprehend, like, how much money like some business owners have and yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

You’re welcome.

Also, ultimately sharing prices.

I’ve like, I’ve talked to clients about how if you have a lot of time and you like getting on calls, like sure test out not sharing the price. But if you, like, friend, I was saying, like, if you more value only speaking to qualified people, then at least having, starting from, like, bracket or something on your site is probably a good idea. Think, like, when I was saying, like, it really comes down to which do you prioritize, like, volume of people that you’re gonna speak to, and then maybe even if they do have a sticker shock, you, like, downsell them into a day rate, or are you really only looking to get on the on a call with, like, people who are prequalified for that specific offer?

Yeah. I just I added a link. I found this, download on the upside.

Definitely check it out. It is probably the only resource to date, and I’d love to know if it helps anybody in Slack. Let me know that it opened my eyes to some of the language to use, as well as the starting point, you know, where what what was a big aha for me is under your services, definitely say starting at you know, let’s say it’s a pack of ten thousand dollars because then to your point, you don’t limit yourself on the upper end because you can scope out the upper end.

But it is anyone who can’t even come close to the ten thousand, let’s say, you weeded them out, and it’s a way of qualifying them. And so I thought it was a really powerful language, that I haven’t seen in many places, but, you know, I I think we saw that who did it recently in the group?

Stacy did it, right, where she had her own you know, buy now link to cart package, which was fantastic. So I I it take a look at it. If anyone comes across anything better than this pricing book, as a tool, please let me know because I’m kind of devouring all these ways of sharing your your fee without having to be selling your self and not in regard.

Perfect. Thank you so much, honey. Awesome. Great. Cool. Last minute questions folks, or do you wanna wrap up?

Can I ask a quick question? Yeah. It’s it’s co quite a nosy one. It’s harder.

So, I follow you with the owner console answer on it, but I’m I’m really curious, like, how many of the fully loaded loaded launch, you sell like a month, and, I would love to know, like, how much time it takes you to Yeah.

Yeah. No. Absolutely.

How many of those do we make So full disclosure, Abby, like, right now, we’re at a stage where most of this fully loaded launch copy packages get expanded.

So they usually include way more emails than what’s on the page right there.

Sometimes they include other collateral, as well, including webinar scripts that are right or create, you know, student onboarding sequences and things like that. So when it is, And because it’s me doing all the writing of the copy, if it gets expanded into something like that, then it usually means I do one of those a month and then book the rest for the rest, you know, rest of the year. Though, and that but I still take on, like, you know, smaller projects, like, say, okay, a short email sequence and to say that because, again, I write really fast.

That’s the others think is I I feel like I, you know, it it’s it’s just fast for me to write. So, So that that helps for sure. How much time does it take? I will I actually, you know, will have hard numbers for you. I tracked all my time, but for maybe an idea. Hang on.

Like, I have, like, show to give you context.

I have the screenshot handy so I’ll share that with you. But Queen is, I we try and keep our hours to, you know, below or around this number for the year. So this is twenty twenty two.

Hang on. Let me Yeah. This is this is twenty twenty two. I also have the numbers for twenty twenty three.

How much time does it take? It’s hard. It’s actually hard for me to say. For instance, twenty twenty two is, I think when we did the hundred k package, which is May and June.

So that, basically, I think, took me this is where it was, but I was also working on other other projects at the time.

I can look up my last, you know, fully loaded copy package numbers and share that with you, but it generally would Katie, I use to follow. I have been using to follow for years, t o g g l. You know what? It’s free.

And it’s amazing.

And I track literally everything I do like from If I’m in Slack chatting with you all, I will track that.

And same with our clients. So for client work, I try calls. I tracked the writing. I tracked the edits. I tracked the communication. I have with them in their Slack. I tracked them or in the Asana or in my Notion workspace or any email.

I track edits, So when I look at the number, it gives me everything.

So, Abby, all of this to say, I can review my toggle stats for the last couple of fully loaded launch copy packages and come back to you, but it generally tends to vary depending on the scope.

Yeah. I mean, I would I would love to look at it if it’s not too much. How soon to share it?

Thank you. Abs absolutely cool with it. So yeah.

I love this idea because I think it’s the starting stats. Like what, you know, for me in particular, I’m like, what success look like out the door? And I know that’s a part of, you know, setting a vision for your business, but also the metrics. And sometimes it’s a little bit like, are you following your like, number of followers on LinkedIn that, you know, then it’s the conversions on the conversations, but it’s the the number of potential KPIs you can have starting out is bewildering and you can almost overemphasize, let’s call social media stats. In some ways, and then that’s where your time goes. But it’s almost like, how do you break down what the most critical stats are for starting out product high service. What’s realistic?

What’s a really great ballpark average? Because I think you can fluctuate between doing a, you know, low end.

Maybe a higher sell or reach, or you can do high end ticket, but it’s sort of like the mix of what, you know, maybe you’ve gone through of okay. Here’s just the baseline. If you can achieve something to this effect over x number of months, These are the metrics that will really help you because I feel that’s what I need. I I work well off of metrics and goals, and I just don’t even know where to start, to be honest.

Yeah. Really important fee. I I’m the same, Monique. I I work well on goals, like tangible metrics and goals. So I would say, you know, you need to kinda figure out what’s most important, for you, for us, it is that number.

It’s, yes, for me, revenue is, like, I love looking at, okay, and gamifying the system and, like, oh, you know, just kind of enjoying the game of entrepreneurship, but so I love the revenue number, but, for us more importantly, it’s also the number of hours work and the kind of work we’re doing.

So, why? Because we have both of us deal, my husband and I do chronic illnesses. When we started our business, our daughter was a toddler, so spending time with her was super important for us and being there for her and just sting her grow up. And, like, she’s sixteen.

She’s gonna be sixteen in March, but it still doesn’t stop. Right? Like, for instance, in March, we’re taking off to you know, taking her to Singapore to see Taylor’s veteran concert. So for us looking at the number of, hours that we spend in our business and the kind of life that we are building for ourselves is what defines success for us because just chasing a constantly moving goal post when it comes to revenue or social media numbers, like you said.

You know? Yeah. It’s easy to just get distracted from the big picture.

So Yeah. I feel like that’s probably where I’m stuck right now, if I’m being very transparent, it’s like that balance between time doing, building authority because, you know, in our authority plans, it’s the book, it’s the the podcast, it’s the newsletter, and I I’m like, oh my god, it’s building all that, and it’s not even the actual business development and the launching of a product.

And If I’m being really clear because I think that’s the whole vulnerability aspect of being in a mastermind is that it’s overwhelming right now. So I don’t know if anyone else is feeling that, but I thought I’d share it.

Sure. You know, like, I think Katie had shared something similar in Slack. You know, I think last month or so, you know, where you’re, Okay. As I have the limit authority, but then how do I also get money into the store, which is a very, very real concern. So thank you for for sharing this. And this is definitely something you could consider chatting about on on a hot seat and, you know, getting more insight there.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it’s I don’t know how to present it, I guess, is the thing when you’re in a hot seat. It’s sort of like you feel like you need to have copy as opposed to or something to react to, not a necessarily a mindset thing. And I I guess when it comes to mind, that’s Well, I mean, hey, I’m open to it. I’m open to it for sure as if I wanna if I wanna be the the case study on it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I think, mindset is definitely, definitely qualifies for for a hot seat. So you should definitely, you know, volunteer for one. That’s, you know, that’s the whole purpose of being in this room.

Now that I have everything in my calendar, and I’ll say that that was don’t know how I missed some things, but I honestly anyhow. Long story. Cool. Check issues.

Awesome.

I asked one last question, though.

If anyone if anyone else hearing and seeing all these creator opportunities come out like Justin Welsh, so there’s a whole bunch of these courses. There’s the upside that people are sharing with me.

There’s another one Donald Miller, like all these you know, essentially, there are the programs that are kind of said to have answered the the questions and the challenges I’m having. And and I’m wondering whether I should be taking any of them, but I don’t know. Like, you can sign up for endless courses. And I guess any thoughts on that?

Yeah. You need to see what you would will those courses give you what you need? If you can decide that on your first second to agree of a sales page, then it probably not the right thing for you. One of the, you know, I don’t know if this would help, Monique, but one of the things that, you know, Mike and I did way back, we, you know, we need to probably go back to it now because but when we were probably at, I would say, at the stage that you are at right now, what we did was we made a commitment to at least finish a course and get the most get what we wanted out of it before signing up for something else.

Because, again, it kind of tied back to the fact that we had limited energy, limited capacity, limited time because you’re also running a business with it. So signing up for a course is the easy thing going through and doing the work is where you wanna see. Okay. Do I really have the time, mental energy, focus, capacity to be able to take on implementing what, say, Justin Welch or a Donald Miller would teach you.

And if so, what would that look like?

So right now, we we don’t do that as religiously, but then that we all set a very different stage. Of life and business both. So it’s kind of, you know, it’s I would say it’s okay.

But point is, it’s tempting to sign up because it feels like the course would be the band aid or the quick fire solution to the problem, and you still label it. Right? But the fact is that you are You already have access to a lot of the courses that you need and the community and the training.

Mhmm.

What is it that you’re hoping to get from those courses that you’re not getting here and how can we kind of fill that gap?

Yeah. I think that’s a great point. Like, for me when I looked at the upside, it’s like step by step. It’s sort of the for me, it’s and maybe I’ve just missed some aspects of some of the courses along the way in in our our community that I’m just need needing to to get that.

And maybe maybe if there’s anyone in the coaching side that can say, hey, these courses, Munich, you have to take that maybe I haven’t seen or taken. That would be helpful. I just don’t know. Sometimes you just don’t know what you don’t know.

And when you’re driving the yeah.

It seems like a lot.

Personally, Monique, I’ve taken the Justin Washes courses and a couple of other ones.

But I can tell you that there’s nothing new, and most of them are pretty outdated.

It’s stuff that you use to work and now everybody’s doing So it’s, basically, it’s seen as a bit of, like, yeah, pushy, like, even the, like, the LinkedIn stuff and Justin Wiresh, basically, all he’s doing is looking at what tweets work, creating templates out of those tweets, systematizing them, and then basically every day sitting down and doing. Okay. Today, you want to write about this. I’m gonna freeze it this way, changing the words. So it’s kind of like a mechanical thing, a repeatable thing, but you can learn all of that for free. Just reading stuff that these creators write on social media or on their blogs, I think.

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Cool. I wanna chat everybody.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.