Okay. Fab. Okay. So, yeah, we’re looking at evergreen must haves when generating leads to the non demand webinar. So just to start, like, why webinars? Webinars are literally the gold standard for high quality lead gen.

They’re the closest thing that you can get to having a one to one sales call because they can actually see you. You can talk to them.

They’re committing to spending time with you. It’s not like a checklist that they can very easily download and have a look at. They’re actually when they sign up, they’re thinking, okay. I’m gonna spend forty five minutes with this person. So they tend to be a high quality lead because they’ve made that commitment.

Obviously, everyone knows here that I work with course creators, workshops still in b to b and SaaS, whatever industry you’re working in. Ninety one percent of b to b professionals say that webinars are their third type of content, and companies report that twenty to forty percent of webinar attendees become qualified leads and within the sales pipeline, which is pretty high. Like, if you think any other type of content, if you’re putting it out there, you’d expect maybe, like, two percent, to become leads.

Okay. Cool. So when it yeah. When it comes to webinars, I really believe that on demand is the way to go.

Why? Well, because then you can you can literally have it running twenty four seven as a way to generate leads. Whereas if you’re doing it live, obviously, there’s only so many times you can do it. And if even if you are like, I’m gonna do it every week, that’s likely gonna lead to burnout. Like, there are a lot of things that we’re juggling. Whereas if you just have it on demand, it can sell for you.

It’s also but it’s not just for us. It’s also for the clients, the people we’re selling to because when it’s on demand, they can actually fit it into their schedule. So if the live times don’t work for them, they can just watch it. I mean, I do I really do feel like in, you know, twenty twenty five is on demand is what people expect. Like, if you wanted to watch a show on Netflix and they were like, you have to schedule it. Do you wanna watch it, like, Tuesday at seven or Wednesday at nine? It’s just not how we’re used to consuming content.

It means that they can literally get the value the moment that they need it. They don’t have to wait till you’re next doing a live webinar. And, also, actually, on demand have higher opt in and watch rates, which really surprises people because I think people think with the urgency of live webinars, more people show up. But more and more webinar platforms are releasing, that’s not the case. Like, e webinar, for example, I think it was something like, sixty five percent watch it when it’s on demand versus forty percent live.

And seventy five percent when given the option will always choose on demand.

Okay. Cool. So you’ve decided that you wanna oh, you’ve decided that you wanna do a webinar, then you’re you’re writing your opt in page.

Obviously, you know, we’ve done a lot of training on how to write a good opt in page.

The challenge with Evergreen is you need to you need to keep it hyper relevant to what’s going on in your customer’s life now. So if you teach without tailoring to what’s happening, you come across as irrelevant. So your opt in page should really be tailored to the most recent information that you have about your ICP.

Oh, just like a warning, my GIF use gets more and more, like, unhinged as it goes through.

Just a heads up.

Okay. So you should really be updating your ICP profile every three to six months.

So your ICP might not change, but the world that your the world has changed. The world that they operate in has changed. So you need to have up to date information about how they’re handling the new challenges, the new opportunities that that exist that didn’t six months ago.

So as an example, so for my online course, I target course grades who have been in the game for a little while but haven’t cracked thirty thousand dollars a month. They all wanna make a thousand dollars a day.

So in twenty twenty three, all of my customer feedback and interviews were revealing that their primary pain point was that they were really exhausted by the burnout and the lack of predictability associated with live launches. This was, I think, a time when everyone was being told everywhere, you need to live launch. You’ve got a live launch. It’s the way.

It’s the way. It’s the way. And that was all my messaging was around that. However, in twenty twenty four and towards the end of twenty twenty four more, there were just so so many more courses and workshops around going evergreen.

And I found that it their primary pain point had actually changed. People yes. They were still motivated by it not doing live launches, but it was actually that they tried going evergreen with the urgency powered system and live webinar format that lots of people are teaching that were really big in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four, and it wasn’t converting. So even though my ICP has stayed the same, the primary pain point has changed.

So as an example of, like, what this would look like in terms of optimization, like, just a simple shift on the opt in page, everything’s the same. Still course creator desired outcome’s the same, but the pain point shifted from live launching to the kind of the eye roll around adding a countdown timer to make sales.

And you you also wanna send signals, just little little ones that this wasn’t recorded two years ago. So just something so easy that literally takes two minutes that you can just schedule yourself to do once every three months. Just put it in your calendar, take five minutes, and just add something that’s going on now. Like, for example, you know, when you when you have, like, the here’s what you’ll discover in the webinar, just mentioning something current. So the election, the TV show that everybody’s watching, just anything that signals, okay, what you’re getting is it’s relevant to now. It’s happening now because especially if you’re targeting founders or teams or founders, they don’t wanna waste time watching a webinar that literally, like, is not in day. It has nothing to do with their business now.

Okay. So a quick checklist I go through to see if my opt in page has ever been ready. So you you need to obviously make sure you remove any specific dates that are more than three months old.

Any cultural references, to events or media need to be released in the last six months. Any longer than that, and it’s gonna feel stale.

You need to mention at least one challenge that the ICP is facing right now that your offer can solve. So it feels it has to feel tailored. It has to feel specific, especially within every webinar. Like, obviously, with all webinars, but particularly evergreen.

I like to add a specific detail.

You know, I I know, like, when you’re doing in to be to be SaaS, like, the tone’s often a bit different, but just something like color with a hot cocoa and watch this forty minute webinar versus, like, grab a nice latte. So it’s saying, you know, summer, is how this is now. And make sure you you’re updating your best and latest testimonials and features, and they they’re they’re prominent. So if you have a really cool testimonial, that you you got last month, but you haven’t touched your opt in page for a year, they’re gonna be missing that. So just make sure that you are you are regularly adding new social proof.

Okay. Cool. Alright. So that’s you’ve got your awesome page. They’ve grabbed the webinar. What happens next?

So first of all, you wanna set up your strategic thank you page.

So you don’t actually want to redirect people straight to the webinar. You wanna add your thank you page.

I I’m done ad about this for a while because there’s the, there’s the added friction of not taking them straight to the webinar, but, actually, you know, they’ve already committed. And, you know, as we know from Coffee School that the thank you page is such a valuable opportunity to get to get feedback from your audience, to to, give them a survey, and they’re much more likely to respond to that because, it’s a sad useful moment. They’ve just given it you’ve just given them something. So on your thank you page, you wanna reinforce the value that they signed up to receive.

You wanna include social proof, smart to your testimonials, your logo, so you’re just continuing to reinforce that you are the go to person on the thing that you’re, that you’re gonna do for them, and then include a one a one question survey. And then when you do have your webinar button, just make sure it’s so big and juicy, like, obnoxiously unmissable, so that you’re not by including thank you page, you’re not reducing the chance of them finding finding the webinar.

Okay. So I’m a little bit obsessed with my Thank You page survey. So I love I love Jay’s question, the what was going on in your life that brought you here today. And I think that’s a really great question to ask especially as you’re when you first start running it because you can really see, like, if there’s a match between, who you’re trying to attract and who you’re attracting. If people are saying they’re here to solve a problem that you’re like, actually, it’s a bit what I’m trying to solve is a bit high level than that, then you know that your opt in message isn’t connecting with them.

But as as you as it goes on, you might find that there’s specific gaps in your research or things that you just love to know about your ICP, especially related to, again, what’s going on in the world right now. So as an example, something I might do, like, every six months is just say, like, hey. What is, like, the what are the new challenges for course creators this year? And it might be things like ChatGPT and people creating courses with that.

It could, you know, it could be anything. So I get that as the the idea. But then the thing is with ChatGPT is it doesn’t obviously prioritize voice of customer. So then I would take that idea and use it to craft a a survey question.

So let’s say, like, what are your biggest concerns around AI right now? What are you currently doing to close your customer’s talent gaps? So you’re taking that opportunity, when you are likely to get better responses because it’s a thank you page, to collect that that voice of customer.

Okay. So exercise.

I think it’s it’s in your workbook.

I actually I’m not sure what page (pp. 41 – 49 of the Agency Workbook). I don’t know if Sarah does. But we’re gonna take just maybe four minutes to have a think about a couple of things that you wish you knew about your ICP or that you you need to know for segmentation and then what question you could ask them to gain those hyper relevant insights.

Does anyone wanna share my questions?

Please.

I will.

I’ll share my questions, but I do not have a, answer yet.

Like, I don’t have the question to ask them yet. Okay. Okay. So I have what makes your okay.

Hold on.

So, basically, one of my questions is just to it just I’m curious about what makes my ICP hesitant to invest in advertorials and sales pages. Like, maybe they’re maybe they have ideas that, it costs way too much or that it’s gonna be hard to implement that they have to like, there’s, like, hoops they have to jump through to get these things set up or something. You know? And then the other question I had was, what they what they think that the advertorials or sales page will do for their business, like, in their own words.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, with the first one, you could just ask, like, why haven’t you invested in this already?

That would probably reveal the hesitations. And then the second one yeah. I think, like, I mean, even the what was going on in your life of what you hit today would probably answer that, to be honest.

Yeah. Yeah. The second one?

Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like or or you could just ask just on the nose. What what was it again? What what are you hoping to achieve with?

It the question was, what do they think that sales pages and advertorials will do for their business, like, in in their home? Yeah.

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Good ones. Claire?

Sorry. I was just writing down one.

It was very useful.

Okay. So I have two, and I’m kinda struggling between which one is more important.

So the first one is one that I’ve been struggling with a lot in, SaaS. It’s either your product led or your sales led. One of the two. You’ve either got a free trial or you’ve got a demo to book. And I’m really struggling to figure out who the hell I’m trying to target because sales led is complicated, but product led is less value per customer. So my question was gonna be, are you product led or sales led? Like, what’s your model currently?

Yeah. I I think with that sorry. I say, like, it does have a multiple choice. And then when you’re when you’re, that will help you segment, obviously, if you you multiple choice and you could connect it to your emails. But then when you’re when you’re tracking that, are booking calls and closing because then you can obviously see, like, which yeah. Which one’s more valuable for you.

Okay. So that adds segmentation. And then the other one I wanted to ask is, what makes email a valuable marketing channel for you?

Just like oh, getting into the head of a CMO is so different to everyone else because they’re seeing, like, this massive picture where it’s like, I’ve only ever seen this tiny little one.

But I don’t know if that’s too broad. It’s gonna like, if it’s gonna just net me one word answers that aren’t actually useful.

Well, just try it. I mean, that’s a great thing about thank you based surveys. I think, you know, as copywriters, we optimize everything. We’re always changing things, but then our thank you based survey, we just kind of, like, leave it for, like, three years and don’t really look at the responses. But, actually, if you change them every three months and take that and and test and see how you can get the best responses, that can make all the other optimization a lot easier.

That’s really helpful. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Claire.

No. No. Thank you.

Johnson?

Hey.

So, I’m talking to series b SaaS founders, and, I’m still I’m I’m doing some sort of product refinement. So I’ve been wanting to know what commonalities are, amongst, like, where their story, outwardly is falling flat to customers. So the question for that would be, what do you wish your audience would, quotation marks, get about you, your company or your product?

And I also kinda wanna know what the, like, story like, I so sort of around storytelling, what would a dream state look like?

So that I can use that in copy.

And for that, it was what do you wish was gossip about you or your company, which I feel could be maybe in could generate some interesting POC.

So those two Yeah.

That was a really good question.

I mean I’m gonna Any advice?

Go back and make a note. Or they no. No. No. I love them both. I was actually thinking, yeah, I’m gonna, yeah, take a note.

Maybe That’s fine.

That’s fine. Great. Okay. Cool.

Thanks, Johnson.

No worries.

Okay. Cool. Alright. Let’s let’s move on. So you’ve got your thank you based survey.

The next step is then you you’ve got your landing page where you wanna embed your webinar.

So you really don’t need fancy webinar software. I’m seeing more and more that watch rates and conversion rates are higher when you just embed a webinar on a landing page versus doing, like, easy webinar where you where you schedule. Again, like, it just it doesn’t feel it like, it makes sense to me because it doesn’t feel natural to schedule a time when you you’d rather

you schedule things on your your own calendar rather than kind of meeting someone, choosing prompt options. And, also, especially if you’re selling b two b and CEOs, like, they use if they wanna watch something, they know to schedule it into their calendar.

So, yeah, you don’t need banks to webinar software. You can use a free tool like Wistia or Vimeo. Just make sure it’s one that you can track watch rates because that’s really helpful to see where people are dropping off.

And then, yeah, literally, you just embed it on the landing page or remove any other script distractions like your menu bar.

If you are using a tool like Wistia, it has an option to make a button appear, taking them to your Calendly or your checkout page. So when you’re pitching, they can straight away click that.

I just asked ChatGPT. Like, that’s probably my favorite use of ChatGPT. It’s be like, I have a tech thing. Like, how do I do it? So just say this is the what tool do you recommend? Can I do this? How do I do it?

Okay.

Cool. So, yeah, you’ve you’ve they’ve opted into your webinar. You’ve given them the webinar. Now you wanna send us a sale sequence. So your welcome sequence, your your open rates are never gonna be that high. This is when you’re gonna see fifty, sixty percent open rate. So I know that this is a kind of a wider conversation, but I love selling in the welcome sequence.

Yes. Give them value. Give them case studies, all that good stuff, but, like, sell the shiitake mushrooms out of your offer.

And then add conversation starting touch points. So, yes, it’s all automated, but you could also just add these these opportunities for them to reach out to you and to gain more feedback. So there are four that I love including, Jason Lemora again. I just love that. Okay.

So for the FAQ email, which, you know, is a is a standard, in in the sales sequence, I love to actually just turn that into, like, an all day q and a, and it’s like, I there is actually a humor on the other end that is gonna answer your questions if you have them. Because getting those questions are so, so helpful because they tell you what isn’t clear about your offer, so that you can then go and add that into into your webinar or wherever. And it also gives you the opportunity to to answer these questions, to address those objections, and to get them on a call, which leads us to our second one, call me. I can’t remember where I saw this. It was years ago. It might it might have been Tarzan, but who who said that one of our highest performing subject lines was was call me.

And literally just giving them your mobile number and saying, you know, if you wanna talk this through, just give me a ring. And that just really, again, takes away from this idea that it’s this automated thing, that it’s just running, there’s no person because what faster way to be like, no. I’m a real I’m a real person than to actually give them your mobile number. And if they spontaneously wanna call you, they don’t have to then book on your Calendly. You can you can take that call and you can sell them. Whether you whether you want that, that’s another question, but it is an interesting touch point you to consider to have as an option.

And then three days after your sequence ends, just asking them straight up up like, hey. What kept you from calling?

So this is a great opportunity to collect objections hesitations. Like, what is it that that that stop them that from thinking, yep. This is the solution for me.

And then, obviously, then you can preempt those objections elsewhere in your sales funnel.

It’s also an opportunity to open up the conversation by their if they’re like, oh, I really like this idea, but, you know, it’s just low down on the priority list because we’re focusing on x. And then you could say, cool that you’re focusing on x, but, you know, did you know? And then you can reopen that conversation with them.

And then finally, Jo’s nine word email, that she taught last year. I thought the nine times twenty three lesson. So every twenty three days, sending a nine word email just asking the question like, are you still struggling to?

Is email marketing still on your, your, like, draw your drawing board for this year? Just a question to, yeah, open it back up. Cody?

I just am curious if anyone has ever called you.

Oh, I don’t do that. I would not do.

Okay. Okay. Got it. No.

I like I love the idea. I’m just way too, like like, won’t don’t like answering calls. But, yeah, if I’ve done it for clients and they have. Yes.

Nice.

Yeah. It’s like, I like having it as an option. And if I really needed like, if I was getting desperate for to close leads, I would add it in there because it is a really good one. But, like, fortunately, I don’t have to at the moment. I can keep keep my space.

So are you just doing the all day q and a and then also the nine word email then?

So you’re just taking the And the Yeah. And then what kept you from calling? Yeah. And I the all day q and a has been really helpful.

Like, I think eighty percent of the time when people ask a question, I end up closing them because they’re just you just get to go straight into that objection, and they’re already gonna be relatively high intent to send that. But then, yeah, when I’m I put them all in a spreadsheet, and I’m like, okay. Loads of people are asking, whether a webinar template is included, and I haven’t. So I obviously haven’t included that.

I mean, obviously, this is for my online course, but the same applies for generating clients. Yeah. Okay. Thanks.

Cool. Yeah. Any questions?

I would love to know, Abby. Like, you talk about using the welcome sequence to sell the offer. How much time do you spend on or, like, how many emails do you send getting people to watch the webinar versus just kind of assuming that they’re watching the webinar and then focusing on selling the offer?

These days, I don’t, like, keep selling the webinar. I mean, it’s something, you know, you can add down the line. You can segment you based on, okay, people that didn’t send the webinar, maybe send them, like, three emails. I’m reminding them. But, yeah, I just focus on talking about the value and kind of coaching the same things that were in the webinar.

And then if they’re curious, they’ll go back and watch it. Otherwise, they’ll just book a call anyway. It’s more about, like, getting them on the email list.

Like, obviously, it’s great if they watch your webinar, but, like, it’s not the end of the world. If they don’t, you can still sell them on that sequence.

Okay. So deliver the webinar and then, basically just assume that they’ve watched it from next day?

Yeah. So send the confirmation email and then start. Yeah. Start selling. And then it when I do the, like, what kept you from buying, I try to take the the kind of the principle with your thank you page, like the law of reciprocation.

And so I redeliver that webinar. Say, if you wanna watch it again or if you didn’t missed it, here it is. And then that also just, like it helps me get more responses, but it gives them another opportunity.

Okay. Thank you.

Thanks. Claire?

Hey. So I this is so timely. I’ve got right up on my list launch Evergreen webinar for January and, like, we’re in the last week. So I recorded it today.

But I wanted to ask two two questions around it, really. The first one is about the actual webinar itself. I had planned for it to be, like, kind of not live. Like, it doesn’t feel live. It’s actually a training video, not like a live video. Is that okay, or is it gonna put people off?

Oh, yeah. No. No. No. No. Like, it’s on demand. Like, the only time people would expect to be live was just this, like, weird boom that kind of happened in twenty twenty where live webinars were a thing.

But if you think about every other form of content you consume, like Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, like, you always watch it on demand. So, like, I don’t see yeah. And peep no. I’ve never had, I’m I’m always very upfront.

And I think as well because especially, like, if we’re targeting people that are marketers and know about marketing, they know about these Abrigam webinar funnels that pretend that they’re live, and they don’t like that because it’s deceptive. You don’t wanna start a relationship deceiving them. So actually being super upfront about the fact that it’s on demand, plays in your favor and helps to build trust.

Got it. Okay. So on demand workshop. Yeah. I feel like I’m dealing with a weird audience because I’ve done marketing for Abbott for, developers before, and they’re, like, super anti any kind of marketing marketing.

Like, it feels like marketing. They’re like, woah. You’re coming on too strong. And now although I’m trying to do it towards marketers, I’m like, oh, wait.

They’re kind of the same because they’re just so overwhelmed with so much marketing stuff. Okay. Cool. That’s my first question.

The other question is more around the technicalities of setting it up. So I am not even worried about, like, the email side of things because I’ll worry about that if I actually manage to send a human to watch it.

When I set up the initial landing page, in your experience, is it important to have, like, a long one? Or do you think that here’s a form, here’s a headline, here’s a subject, just like Gong actually sets up their, webinars like that. And then there’s, like, a logo box kind of underneath it, and that’s pretty much it.

Is that sufficient in your book?

Yeah. I mean, it’s a very, like, it depends question. I’d say it’s probably, like, how urgent is the problem? Like, if it’s really urgent, like, it’s a the the blood gushing problem, then, you know, it’s it tends to be enough to just say, like, you know, had you’ve got the headline.

This is problem solved. This is for you, and here’s what’s in it. Like, maybe a bit of social proof. If it’s a kind of higher level problem that you need to coach them towards, you might have a bit of a longer form page opt in.

But yeah. Okay.

Got it. Alright. So the just to clarify, I understand. The landing page takes you to is a form, like, enter your email and name kinda thing. That takes you to a thank you page with another survey, answer my wonderful question, which is probably gonna be, do you do a trial or not? And then the third page, when once they click submit button or whatever it is, the third page is directly the embedded video with, like, a book now kind of, another form I suppose, some kind, whether it’s Calendly or whatever underneath.

Yeah. Also, they would click, they click watch now to take into the webinar, so it’s just like that instant gratification feel.

And then, yeah, have a button pop up that they click it, takes them to the checkout form, or takes them to the Calendly if they need to speak with you first. But, ideally, you want that to pop up later on in the pitch because, you know, if it’s a big juicy button, like, you’re gonna get curiosity clicks, so you wanna wait till they’re a bit more sold on working with you.

Okay. Got it. I’ve got, like, I’ve planned for I can take this out. So but I’ve planned for mid webinar to say, essentially, my first I’ve added a step to my, little circle framework. I’ve added, like, a triangle. It’s like a instant like, this is what to do with your demo or confirmation email kind of framework, and I called it the hello hook.

But I’ve said in the middle of that section, essentially, I’m actually doing this kind of audit for three companies a week. If you want help with this, check out the form below, and I’ll see if I’ve got a slot for you.

Is that okay?

I mean, like, just with all these things, we’ve just gotta test it.

Right? Like, you know, we all we all know that really. Like, I I could tell you, like, one way, I need but but you’d still be like, I think I need to test it. Like, if yes.

Yeah. People filling in that form? If you can get this pop up at that exact moment, that would look cool. That would look baller as well.

So I did yeah. If you could do that.

Yeah. Getting them to take action mid webinar.

Yeah. It’s an interesting idea. Just try it.

Yeah.

I saw it in the YouTube video, and I was like, oh, actually and then at the end, he kind of reiterated, and I was like, oh, yeah.

Now I’m gonna do it. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I’ll check it out. Thank you.

No. Thank you. Cody?

Yeah. I was curious if you have, like, a specific time limit, like, how long that these should be. Have you seen, like, any time limit that’s more successful than others? Or yeah.

I think, like, there’s an element of again, it depends on your audience. I mean, my audience course creators, I know that they expect, like, an hour long webinar. That’s what everyone’s doing. That’s they they will spend an hour if it’s really they know it’s gonna be valuable to their business. So the formula I tend to use is, forty minutes teaching with a full twenty minutes pitching.

So rather than just rushing through the pitch at the end, actually doing a very, very tailored pitch.

So, yeah, an hour, but then if you’re you’re like, if you find that your, audience, like, you know, they’ve they’ve they’ve got an attention span of, like, twenty minutes, and then they have to move on to the next thing, then you know that it’s gonna be a twenty minute webinar.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Cool. Katie?

So I know you asked a question in the group recently about, like, ads to your webinar.

I would just love to know, I guess, kinda, like, where you’ve landed on running ads to your webinars, if you have any tips on running ads for our webinars, or generally, like, about driving traffic. What should we keep in mind about driving people to the Evergreen webinar?

Yeah. I think I think ads are a good idea. I mean, webinar leads are more expensive than, like, a PDF lead. At the moment on Facebook, what I’m seeing is kind of seven to twelve dollars. I know it’s more in LinkedIn, but they tend to be I’m hearing more and more good things about doing running ads on LinkedIn. Like, I’m definitely gonna be looking into that.

But, yeah, I think I think to begin with, like, it’s helpful to run ads to get that traffic, basically. Like, just run it. Just take take the chance. See what happens.

Like, expect nothing to happen. Like, put a thousand in and expect nothing to happen, but you’re gonna get voice of customer. You’re gonna get feedback. You’re gonna get a feel for whether this is worth continuing, see if you booked any calls.

So yeah. I mean, like, organic, it’s just it’s just slow, isn’t it?

Like, I I am gonna be running ads. Yeah.

I’m tired of just, like, yeah, trying to trying to do social.

Did you decide about the Pinterest course?

No. I didn’t. That got, like, that got bumped out.

Fair enough.

Yeah. I’m I’m more like YouTube.

Okay. Thank you.

Cool.

Yeah. Anyone else?

I don’t like Joey’s not here for asking me anything, so I don’t

I have I have questions for dates.

I mean, I can go on. Please.

Alright. Ads.

I have been scared of ads for so long because, like, I don’t know.

Twelve dollars for, like, a chance kinda feels like entering the lottery, but I But it’s not one chance, is it?

Because they’re on your enroll list. So it’s like Oh.

Three hundred sixty five chances a year. Like, every time you send an email, it’s a chance.

Yeah. Okay. Cool.

And have you found that, pain focused messaging or outcome focused messaging, Yeah.

I mean, what’s more burning their desire or their problem? Like, you know, for so for what I teach, the message like, when I did my competitor analysis, the message that all of these evergreen people are teaching is you can make so much money. Like, you can make sales every day, and people need to hear that. That message does need to be on on a page because it’s the expectation.

But that because everyone’s been burned. Like, literally, everyone who’s bought my course, so it’s become a client, has been burned. They also need to hear, like, yeah. You don’t just, like, set up deadline funnel and then suddenly, like, you’re on vacation and your Thrive card just won’t stop, like, pinging.

Like, they need to hear, like, yes. It’s a process.

Yeah. It you know, it it’s not immediate. Like, you need to optimize, but here’s what we’re gonna do about it. So I think a competitive analysis can really help with that question.

So, like, what what what do people need here that isn’t being said? Is that pain related, or is it desired outcome related? Like, do they need to know be woken up to the opportunity, or do they need to, like, show that that do they need to hear that their pain is not unusual, that it is like, it’s fine. That’s the story, but there is a way out of it, and you acknowledge that.

And you’re not gonna just promise them, like, the world.

That makes so much sense. I’ve been talking to a lot of marketers, lately, and the recurring theme I keep hearing is, like, I don’t wanna clutter up someone else’s inbox. My inbox is so full. I don’t wanna fuck up someone else’s.

So, yeah, I think that probably needs to be on the page and, you know, more crucial raising.

Yeah. And then do an AB test, like, test test desired outcome versus problem and see.

What do you use for AB testing, by the way? Do you have, like, online in pages? Sorry. Not for ads.

Okay. So I I use lead pages, but I did have a call with Jo. Like, when I did my ISP interview with her, she was like, yeah. I wouldn’t sign up to a webinar that’s on lead pages.

So it’s on my list to change that, but, like, you know, it’s like if you’ve got WordPress or something, it’s simple. I need to just figure it out. Like, that’s my next thing to ask ChatGPT is how do you do, like, a AB test on a Squarespace landing page? Like, these aren’t impossible questions anymore, which is which is great.

Okay. Awesome. Thank you.