Category: Ask Me Anything
Small Group Coaching (replays)
Small Group Coaching (Jan 9)
Small Group Coaching (Dec. 19)
Small Group Coaching (Dec. 12)
Small Group Coaching (Dec. 5)
Networking and approaching a group of people
Networking (and how to approach a group of people)
Transcript
Yeah. Just see that when you kinda gotta go up to a group of people who already know each other and you’re like, hi.
Yeah.
Okay. Awkward.
It is. However, I have this older sister.
Now we always moved around as kids, and I find this valuable. And I don’t know if you will, but I have used this, thought repeatedly, in life when I’m in an awkward situation.
My eldest sister was very popular all the time as well, and her rule was, Sarah will know this, her rule was when you started a new school, go in like you own the place. And I, frankly, that’s some really good advice. Go in like you own the place, and I feel like nobody knows you. That’s one of the advantages of going to one of these events. As far as they know, you are some hot shit where you come from.
Right?
So, like, I find that I have had to put myself in some awkward ass situations, go up to people, and when everybody is assuming you’re probably the coolest person where you come like, coolest person. I mean, like, the best at what you do, like, super successful, all of this great stuff. No. Most people are assuming that, but, like, lean into it. Next time, try just leaning into it. And that could be, like, read, Todd Herman’s alter ego book to see, like, is there something else that you could put on?
Pretend I am this and just fucking try it. What are you gonna lose? You’ll probably never see these people again. So, like, start practicing that. Right? I would say that as, like, it’s been helpful for me. Like, very helpful.
Awesome.
Yeah. Okay.
I’ll do that next time.
Yeah. For sure.
What might work as a retainer?
What might work as a retainer?
Transcript
Hey, Jo.
Can you just tell me when it I don’t wanna take up more time today. But I am I have some random ideas, I guess, about what might work as a retainer, or may not. And so I guess what is the best time to start discussing and then knowing because I was reading through the workbooks for all this stuff, And at one point, I think I saw something scary like, if you cannot do this, we need to go back to the standard offer and change it. I was like, oh, shoot.
I need to figure this out sooner rather than later. So what is, like, the best time would you say just talk about it in Slack? And if you guys say, nope. None of this works, then I need to look at that.
I’m a little concerned about how much time I’m wasting on seasonal campaign if I can’t figure out a retainer an optimization performance retainer for it. That makes sense.
That’s fair.
What can you I mean, now is a good time. We are, in this afternoon, talking about standardized offers. And with that, it’s important for you to think about the retainer offer. But next week will be full on retainer offer stuff. Okay. So what do you have right now? Now is a good time?
Okay. Well, the one that to me seems to there’s obviously the seasonal sale campaign. Any it could be a product launch campaign, right, where you learn from that campaign, and you can take some of those learnings and apply it to retention strategies and other things like that or just your future campaign. But a future campaign, like you said, is a new project. Yeah. So I’m trying to also avoid that. And so then the major things that I kind of was trying to get it down to was my focus on seasonal sales can also lay a great foundation for ongoing customer retention.
And, so, yes, the average order value that’s yes. You can do that. And, yes, you can get them to come in during the seasonal sale and buy a second time. That’s all great. But we can also start laying the foundation for increasing lifetime value and all that kind of stuff. So then the only thing that to me made sense in terms of value was ongoing work around their customer retention KPIs.
But what I was still struggling with is I’m not doing enough to opt to I’m not doing enough, I don’t think, in the seasonal the standard thing for post purchase experience and all that to kinda make it not a brand new project that almost requires an email audit or something like that. So then I’m like, I don’t know. I just keep hitting the same off. Okay.
Well, I might as well just do an email program audit because they I don’t have the full picture if they bring me on for a seasonal sale. Right? And I wanna keep their customer attention going and doing all those things. It feels like if I don’t see the full picture, how do I say, yes.
We should focus on a win back versus something else. You know?
Yeah.
That’s why I keep kinda coming against the wall of my brain.
I think you’re getting close. I do. Because it feels like okay.
If you have a point of view on standardizing seasonal campaigns Mhmm.
You can start with an audit of their past. That could be, like, your project out of the gate, potentially. Like, we’re just brainstorming here, and it might break. It might not be right.
But, if you were to start with seasonal audit, you go over their last six seasonal campaigns, and you audit them against, like, a rubric, just a some sort of analysis that you come up with. It’s your thought leadership. You own it. You’ve made sense of the best ways that seasonal campaigns work.
And then you could be responsible on an ongoing basis for running their seasonal campaigns against what you found in the audit. Doesn’t mean that’s the thing to do, but there might be if you have thought leadership and a point of view on how to run killer seasonal campaigns, All all you need is that.
Just that, Jessica. You just need outstanding thought leadership on seasonal campaigns.
Right. But that really could be you could build something out of that. You would still have so for every part of the retainer, there is still a certain level of original work that has to be done. Yeah.
But you need to try to systematize.
I say sixty percent of that. That’s not a real number. That’s just to give you a sense for it should be more systematized than custom.
Mhmm. So if you can break it down to here are the templates that work great for these campaigns, if you could come up with that, if you could own that, then that could be a really interesting retainer where you are doing original work each time, but it’s based on your brand’s hypothesis about what is what to do to make seasonal campaigns work really well so that you attract customers that will pay more money to you down the road or whatever that thing is that you’re say that you end up saying in the end. I feel like you could do something, but it would require a lot of, like, really dig into what your point of view is on this.
Mhmm. Yeah. Does anybody have anything to add or any thoughts there?
I would just add that I’m totally in exactly the same boat of wondering, like, the ideas that I have for the retention offer, how do I stop them from snowballing into new projects?
Like, just, yeah, just finding that right, like, golden ratio of what goes in the standardized offer versus what’s the ongoing.
And then kind of adjacent to that, I know we were talking about, like, web copy. Like, so many of us having web copy as a standard project, but not wanting that to be the standardized one going forward.
Like, if I’ve landed on the, like, automated email sequences to increase lifetime customer value, But I’m like, how I don’t know if that’s close enough to the pain point that people like, you know, needing a sales page feels like a strong like, I don’t have the sales page. I don’t feel like it’s converting or, you know, I just feel like the post sales automated sequences feels like an add on to a painkiller product versus, like, a standardized offer in its own right.
Okay. So we were talking about this last time or on Friday. Right? And so if we’re at a so if I’m recalling correctly, it came down to sales page as standardized offer that then gets optimized, emails, a standardized offer that then get optimized, or both, a standardized offer that then get optimized. And this is where you’re you’re still working through that. Is that accurate?
Well, I mean, I so I was like, okay. Shut up and make it easy. Choose the emails. But what I because I’m reading hundred million dollar lead nice.
Leads right now and just and I really wanna be close to the pain. Like, I wanna be I I want people to be like, please help me with this. And I don’t feel like the automated emails is the place where they’re like, we desperately need this support.
Can you then so you’re saying that the pain is the sales page?
No? Well, okay. I acknowledge that I’m talking about working with a different audience that I work with right now, but I was yes. Because nobody’s ever come to me being, like, give us these emails, but people come to me all the time for the sales page.
Do they want you to continually optimize the sales page, or is it a one and done project?
Well, for my current audience, it’s a one and done project, but I’ve also never pitched sales page optimization before.
Okay. Cool. Great. So if you were to say the pain is closest to the sales page, my target audience that maybe I’m expanding to, feels great pain and wants that page optimized on an evergreen basis.
They want to just continually optimize it. I’m going to sell that. That’ll be my thing. That sounds great.
No? What could be wrong with that?
Well, I feel like the sales page is harder to own than the emails just in that there’s more people doing it. More contractors doing it or more people in my space talking about sales pages versus the behavior based automations feeling like a more like a bluer ocean.
Okay. That’s interesting. Yeah. I I don’t think it’s red ocean, though. I really don’t like.
I mean option? You know best. You don’t You know. But, like, your target audience who is a person that needs a sales page that they’re continually optimizing? What’s the brand that you would want to work with?
Let’s say, like, Jerisha Hawk is a coach that I would like to work with.
Okay. Cool.
Mhmm.
So there are and do you feel like this person sorry. I’m not familiar with them.
They’re always being pitched by others, or, like, they’re does it feel like they’re staring at a red ocean of people pitching them on these services.
Well, I’m like, from how engages with her with her Instagram post, I feel like there’s definitely at least a handful of other copywriters, like, circling the wanting to work with her.
Who’s really killing it, though? Like, who in this red ocean is kill is it a red ocean full of sharks tearing everybody apart, or is it like a a goldfish pond where there’s lots of little ones in there doing their best, but may like, is there room for you to come in and be the shark?
Okay. I like that. That’s a good analogy for me. That works.
Okay. Good. Then we’ll leave it at that. I’ll quit while I’m ahead. Alright. Thank you. Awesome.
Ideas for a Standardized Offer
Ideas for a standardized offer
Transcript
Yeah. This isn’t, well, it’s sort of I mean, it’s tied into this, of course, but, you know, we talked last time, about moving towards email, getting to know my market better, and the the offer.
And, yeah, I mean, it’s it’s more or less a reiteration of the same thing. In terms of offer, I don’t know what I know. Don’t know. And I do know what I know.
But I don’t know what yeah. And I I know you have a lot of experience in email, and, honestly, I would just love to hear what your thoughts are in terms of offers that fit this model well, and, that that you think are interesting because that would that might be a really good starting point for me.
Okay. So you’re just looking for, like, ideas on what to do as your standardized offer?
Yeah. Basically. Yeah. I’m pretty open to to whatever, and I’m I’m I’m pretty excited. So yeah.
Okay. Okay. Love it. Who do you like working with? Who’s your target audience? Who is in closest proximity to you that you can reach?
So, I mean, it’s part you you mean, in terms of, like, next client or just in general?
Well, it’s probably that client with my cousin Lee. That’s but that’s gonna be in, financing.
But, I mean, it’s tech financing, so that’s kind of kind of a good blend.
K. And that’s gonna happen in q two or q three now. So, project I’ve done yet, which I’m excited about. Oh, so that’s the win.
And, yeah, so that’s probably where I’m going next.
Do you like working with tech?
Well, yeah. I mean, broadly speaking, yes.
But, again, broadly speaking, I mean, aside from, I don’t know, helping our company kill the rainforests, and, I’m I’m happy to work in any industry, as well as.
So yeah.
Love it.
Okay. So the thing that seems to be an unlimited gold mine, is life cycle emails, because of because you just the problem is you have to go narrower than that because there are so many emails that I’m I’m saying tech, but I really, in this case, mean SaaS. I don’t mean NVIDIA or other more complex behind the scenes things. I mean SaaS.
I mean, there’s a sign in, there’s a login, and people and users use it, and it’s usually product led growth. Doesn’t mean it has to be, though. So Envision has a sales team, for enterprise organizations. Envision is not a good example.
They just went bankrupt.
But they were really good for a long, long time.
But point here is if you work with SaaS, there are loads of good reasons too, which I won’t get into because I know I already talk too much as this.
But SaaS life cycle emails or SaaS depends on which part of the life cycle you wanna work on, but that nobody’s doing it. I’ve said this before. Nobody’s doing it when they are they’re inundated with work. They can’t hire fast enough, so that becomes your problem. Like, cool. There’s so much money in work, but I actually can’t hire and train fast enough. So that’s a real like, that’s a first world problem, but it’s legit.
And there’s lots of money. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money for a life cycle. So just do life cycle, stand up, life cycle of some kind, activation through to revenue, whatever that looks like. You have a standard model in place that you, modify.
So you always know we’re gonna probably have these three box cars, but there might be a fourth or a fifth on there. We’re always gonna do segmentation around this part. We’re gonna try to do if we can do triggered emails, then this is true. Some SaaS companies, you still can’t do triggered.
Everybody on the development team is, like, homegrown stuff, so it gets messy. Point is, you figure that out.
Stand it up. That’s your project. That’s a standardized offer, and then you just optimize it from there on out. And because SaaS businesses need this so badly and have a real problem of a database that is packed with email addresses that they’ve been ignoring hard.
If you can come in and start to untangle that, like, that’s why box car that’s why I started it. Just it’s endless, the amount.
The amount of of need there. It’s directly tied to revenue where they have users right there. They’re just not touching.
Is that what Boxcar specialized in then?
Yeah.
Yep. And that’s what Boxcar so I’ve exited Boxcar. They’re off doing their own thing, and they’ve added in other landing pages mostly because there’s also a lot of demand for landing pages, and things like that. But I continue.
Like, I’m consulting with clients right now, on exactly this stuff, and it’s endless. I can’t even stop the engagement when I try to. When I say, okay. I’m ready to hand this over to others.
No. No. Way. Confused. There’s too much money on the line. Yeah.
Okay. A follow-up question I have then is, when would you recommend looking to, gain a a solid understanding around this area in terms of self education?
Yeah. I mean, given that software companies use intercom so much, I would read through all the intercom resources, watch all the things. Also, Gong, though, like, gong dot I o, they’ve got a really good resource center and software companies that are using Gong usually have a lot of money to spend. They’ve got a sales team as well, but they’re probably trying to also do product led growth. So check out everything that Gong dot I o has.
Intercom’s, yeah, a really obvious one.
Yeah.
Those are Okay.
Those are the It’s like the.
Yeah. You can start there and have a really solid education at the end of it. Yeah.
Alright. Great. That’s amazing. And and just before, is there anything else, just seeing as this is something you’re so passionate about, is there anything else you think I should know about approaching this?
My only pause on doing it at all is that, you will have to get really strong at saying no to coming on board as an in house person. So I would say build out your team sooner. Yeah.
Right. Is a a crazy offer to bring you in because it’s so valuable or just right. Okay. Got it.
It’s it’s just so hard to I most people who started an email went off and did something else for god knows why.
So there just aren’t that many experts out there, if you become that trusted life cycle person for them, yeah, there will be annoyingly compelling offers that you’ll have to be get they regret it.
Two years later, they’re like, damn it. Why did I not just keep doing the thing? And I have story after story that I’m not allowed to share, but just know. This happens all the freaking time.
Don’t say yes to that offer. You can make more money on your own and be happier.
Anyway, we’ll get in we’ll cross that road when we get there, but that’s the only thing I would say.
Yeah. No. No. No. I mean, that just made me wanna do it more, honestly, because I’m never gonna go in house. So, yeah.
Never say never. The offers can be very compelling.
So to speak with. Sure. Okay.
Okay. Cool. Cool. Awesome. Thanks,
How long should initial meetings be?
How long should initial meetings be?
Transcript
Yep. So I just had a couple of questions.
Yep. So if my diagnostic is my lead magnet Yeah. And they booked the call, originally, I was gonna have just, like, a fifteen minute strategy call Mhmm. On my website.
But, obviously, if I’ve taken into diagnostic, that’s gonna be more forty five to sixty minutes.
Is is that too long?
I would not yeah. I would say, call it fifteen minutes. But when they add it to their calendar, have them add an hour to their calendar. So add to calendar, add event is, like, yep. It’s sixty minutes in there. That gives you the freedom to have it be fifteen minutes.
Okay.
So that if it goes like, if you’re like, oh, hells no, then you can end it at fifteen minutes. Okay. But if you’re going through it and it’s going well, then you know they’re not gonna be like, well, I have a hard stop. So you can talk.
Okay. Yeah. Cool.
Realistic promise for ROI
Realistic promise for ROI
Transcript
Two things. I have two questions, which are kind of related. So I’m going through the proposal, and we need a single statement on what you estimate clients can expect to see for ROI.
And I don’t know. So if I’m writing emails to get people to upgrade, and I’ve and I don’t know if I am going too narrow, but I was thinking so if we are dealing with emails that are getting people to move from your most popular plan to the plan above it Mhmm. Like, just being super specific so then I can be like, okay. Let’s specialize in that, and then we can add other stuff.
Yeah. So this isn’t free to pay. This isn’t, like, low tier to mid tier. This is, like, your most popular and up.
And, also, I thought the most popular tier would probably have the most people They have better data and so on. That’s my I’m dealing in hypotheses right now because I don’t know. Yeah.
And I would what makes sense to me is when I get people to upgrade, then they’re gonna be paying more money, and that could lead to negative churn unless they’re bleeding money out of, you know, some of the lower tiers, and they have high churn there. So when I’m thinking about a promise, like, I would love to say, sure. Let’s get to negative churn in six months. Well, that’s maybe pie in the sky, like fantasy.
Yeah.
I don’t know, and I can’t promise that. And there’s also a lot of other things around. Like, what’s their customer service like?
What’s their in app messaging? You know, what other emails are around? Like, I’m only doing, like, a select few. Mhmm.
And so as much as I’m working to make those highly conversion focused and tagging them so that they are a product qualified lead for that next level when that email is sent to them. So, hopefully, they’re at that moment of highest tension where they’re like, I need this thing. Why don’t I get this email, and, oh, look. It’s in the next tier.
Boom. I’m gonna buy it. Like Yeah. In my fantasy world, that’s what I’d like to be able to do.
It’s a good world to live in.
I’m gonna get there, but I haven’t done it yet. I have no proof that I have done it.
I’m hypothesizing that I could do it, but I also know that it’s gonna take some iterations because you need, like, you just need to, yeah, keep optimizing.
So Yeah. The question is K. What can I actually promise confidently without, like, having a heart attack, not trying to get it, like, trying to deliver on the promise? Right? Because you don’t always know what’s gonna work. Yeah.
So to me, it, you need to bring the metric closer to what you can control.
So, yes, it’s true that across the board, all sorts of factors will influence all sorts of results. Okay. So knowing that, what’s the one that’s valuable? But don’t start with valuable.
Start with, like, okay. How can I measure success out of the work that I do? What are what are the ways that I can be sure? So, like, through rates, open rates, like, things that are really directly tied to the exact thing that you wrote.
And, of course, open rates are affected by other things, of course. But it’s close. Right? A click through rate is affected by the thing that you wrote, so there’s that to consider. What I would say is it sounds like if you’re worried that there’s so many different things that people can say, that could negatively affect your results, then your results are not close enough to what you do. Does that answer your question or get close to it?
And if it doesn’t, that’s cool because I was distracted with this thought the whole the whole time.
Sorry.
No. I was paying attention, but I kept coming back to the metric. The metric.
The metric we saw.
Yeah. So I can the thing that I could do Mhmm. Is click through because is their thing optimized on the other side? I don’t know. Like, I can’t control any of the other stuff.
Yeah.
But in theory But that can’t be your promise. That can’t be the not that can’t be the promise.
Click through rates. Yeah. Yeah. But you can start there. So you can say, okay. Here’s what we’re aiming for. We wanna reduce churn.
Now what does that really look like? It looks like a number that your analytics person can report and say, churn is this. Is it up? Is it down?
But we are going to need to back up toward the email itself and say, okay. We’re ultimately measuring it on reducing churn. But here are the metrics that we can control with this email that we can increase. So if you’re going through this now and you’re like, okay.
It is click through rate that I can control. What I can’t then control is what they’re landing on on the other side. So if they’re if they’re landing on they’re clicking through and they’re landing on a page that’s suboptimal, then you need to think now at this point in the process, do I need to also add in landing page into the specialization, like this offer that I have? Is it email plus landing page?
And then work through that. It doesn’t mean it is, but work through it. Yeah.
Well and that’s where before I was thinking pricing page, because they land on the pricing page, which is why I was like and then you’re like, okay. Rein it in. Rein it in. Yeah. So I was like, okay.
And now go back out.
Well, but, ultimately, it’s true. So if Yeah. I can get them, you know, they have the pin, they have the thing, they get the email, and they’re like, oh my goodness. Yes.
I need this. Click. I’m gonna upgrade. They go to the pricing page to upgrade. Mhmm.
And it’s less than optimal.
You know? So then you hype them up here. They get to the pricing page, and they’re like, oh, well, what where’s the value?
Yeah. And then, hopefully, you know, the the feelings from the email carry them through to completing the payment.
But Hopefully, it’s a terrible strategy.
It totally is a terrible strategy. Right? So maybe it is that. Yeah. Because pricing page is so tied to Yeah.
That.
And then But it might not be called pricing page. It might be a sales page. And if it’s a sales page that has pricing on it because a pricing page, you say that to stats, so they’re like, got it. Headlines, subhead, pricing table, FAQs.
That’s what they think they’re gonna get. And you’re like, hang tight because depending on certain things, like the email that they clicked from based on the action that they took or did not take in the product. So action taken or not taken taken in product lands gets triggers email, email then lands them on page that should factor in where they came from. So you might go like, okay.
If that is true, then it’s a landing page, which has a pricing table on it, but it’s a landing page. And you might then go, it’s actually more than one landing page. We’re probably gonna need three landing pages. You start to come up with this process.
You start to develop this system that is more optimal for the user, which is really what we’re looking for in reducing churn anyway.
As far as marketing can control it, product is another story entirely. But as far as marketing is concerned, all you can do is work with the marketing assets, emails, landing pages.
So do you then come up with a process that you get to name, you get to call it your thing, and people want to implement that in their organization, and that’s, like, the core of your agency. It’s bigger than that standardized offer for ten k, but it’s also sounding like it’s more likely to result in better success for your clients. And you can actually measure churn more closely than you could if you just work on email. And churn is going to be the valuable thing here for them. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Is it too big?
Excited.
No. Okay. Good. I’m excited for you. That’s good.
No. Because then okay. I’m an ideas person, so I usually Love it. Get a hundred before I get a good one.
But, anyway, so you get so they click on the email, and because that email is yeah. So they’re getting the the feature that tipped them over the edge that makes them a product qualified lead. Yeah. That’s gonna be the feature and the next thing, then that’s on that landing page.
Mhmm.
Landing page sales page.
That’s what you’re focusing on. So then the message matches, and they’re like, yes. This just confirms.
Yep. And then, yes. Yeah. But I agree. Don’t call it a pricing page because was it you or somebody or red or they spend, like, maybe six hours on pricing thinking about pricing strategy or anything.
Anyway, like, instead of in.
Yeah. Yeah. I was like Yeah. They won’t see the value in it. Yeah.
Whereas that Yeah. That is more robust, and, actually, then you could actually do something Yep.
And really affect growth.
But then can you do that for ten grand? Like, that seems a little scary.
Yeah. But that’s okay.
If Okay. So how much?
So your role is to identify map it out. Map out what this looks like.
Run it by a CMO or two or somebody you know who’s in life cycle.
Here’s what I’m thinking. Talk with Jess about it. Right? Like, here’s what I’m thinking. Try to break it. And, obviously, it feels like you’ll have to do it a few times before you can charge twenty thousand, but I don’t I honestly don’t think that’s true.
You come in with a great idea, well thought out. You’re the salesperson helping people understand the value here.
Eventually, you’ll probably get to a place where this would be, like, a fifty thousand dollar project plus twenty five retainer. You I don’t think you’d start with that, but it can’t be ten.
Yep. Ten.
You put you’d you’d you’d live on ramen. There like, there’s too much work to do. So you’ve got to you’ve gotta do I would say, imagine it at twenty thousand.
That’s where I would land it and then figure out things around that. If it’s as robust without being over the top, don’t overdo it. But if it’s couple landing pages, some triggered emails, That is enough of a funnel for users, which is not a known thing, so kind of like a journey, that a business that’s struggling with churn, and there are so many of them, could see the value in it. And if you can really set this thing up, and you know that you can.
You already know that you can. You’ve done good work. You get a lot of, like, accolades for the work that you do. People are like, well done, Marina.
So you know that you can do it.
Now you just gotta figure out the thing, and then figure out how to charge twenty k for it. But, like, the pieces are real, and they exist, and they’re there. And now the next four weeks and beyond are how you figure out all that all that stuff.
Okay. This I can get excited about. I mean, I was excited about the emails too, but I always thought I was like, yeah.
But there’s still, like, there’s The nice the nice thing about email is it’s contained.
It’s done. You can talk only about email. Mhmm. You can become a thought leader on those emails. You can get so bored of talking about it that’s like, it it’s like an automated thing. Like, you’re a bit of a robot about it, and that might feel dull to a lot of people, but it’s also the past to, like, financial freedom. Like, really saying the same thing again and again and again again.
This is more complicated. This will take more. You’ll have to expand your thought leadership to things beyond email.
That’s okay.
It’s expansion revenue. Like Yeah. That’s Okay. Like, they talk about expansion revenue. Yeah.
That’s the thing that they talk about and how to do it, and Yeah. They don’t do it. Yeah.
Using testimonials for client acquisition
Using testimonials for client acquisition
Transcript
And then the proposal template, I don’t have examples of the exact work that I’m doing.
Yeah.
That I’m trying to do. And a lot of my testimonials that I have are more around content or, you know, they’re just saying that, you know, I’m ready to execute and things like that.
So Yeah.
One thing I was thinking of doing, and, obviously, no results yet to really put in there. Mhmm.
One thing I can do that would be a very quick project is I can do new landing pages and email sequences for our jiu jitsu gym to do trials.
Not the same space that I’m going in, but Yeah.
At least I have more control over that.
Yeah.
Or should I try one of our the clients I work with on a contract basis is a pre funding SaaS company Yeah.
Which I could potentially convince them. Yep. But that would be a more longer.
Yeah. It’s not or. It’s and. It’s both. Yeah. Do both. Do and do more. Yeah.
Yeah. Exactly. You’re at that place now where if you’re gonna need to build you’ve identified a part of the proposal template exercise is, like, identify the things that are not easy to fill in yet. And so, like, that becomes, like, I don’t make you operationalize it.
Like, I don’t say, now go make sure you get a template. Or sorry. Not a template. A testimonial.
But that should be a takeaway for you. Right? If you’re like, I don’t have a case study to put in here. Okay. One, also don’t worry about it.
I love I love I’m gonna say something about men. Just know that I am married to a man. I love a lot of men. It’s not a man, anti nothing thing at all, which always sounds like, is it, though? It’s really not.
If you were a man, you would just write the thing in there. And I know that might sound crazy.
Sorry if it does.
Just just own it. Just like and you will. Then just make it, like, your objective now is, like, now that I’ve said I can do this, now I’ve written in testimonials that are close to right, but not really, you know that you cannot leave your next client who’s, like, maybe your first client for this without getting a testimonial. So your objective is not just to land to the client, but to make sure you land a client that you can get a testimonial from.
And that’s, like, good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Now that you have one, you can lead with that testimonial, and then it’s just a order of reading things.
People are just scanning through in the first place. They wanna be able to hand this over to the person who has the questions about you and say, no. No. No.
She’s good. She’s got this.
And that person will likely also scan and go like, oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. They seem fine.
So, yeah, that’s your objective. Everybody, every single person has to find a way to get that first client to say yes to this thing. You already have some testimonials or work that you do.
Mhmm. Pick and choose, obviously. Be a copywriter about it. Yeah. Yeah.
What else to measure on a pricing page?
What else to measure on a pricing page?
Transcript
Hey. So I was gonna ask you, apart from the click rates or the conversion rates on a pricing page, what else can you track?
Like, the like, the scrolling with the heat maps and That’s a page I took out of today’s presentation.
Easy oh, wait. No. It’s in the tips area at the very end. I didn’t get to the tips page. The last page is full of tips.
Easy on scrolling, and pricing pages are typically not bad. Okay. There’s the FAQs at the bottom that are, like, expandable too.
You know, I wouldn’t what I would look at on a pricing page, depending on if it’s on the website versus if it’s where people in product lend or lend from emails for users, not trial. So website versus other pricing page would likely have two different ways of like, two different models that you would put together for how to measure success there and what the KPIs are.
Bounce is actually really important, and it might be more at that point, it’s like exit because bounce is, like, when you enter a site and then bounce it versus exit rate is different. So you’d probably call it exit rate. On the pricing page, did they spend less than ten seconds there, which could mean all sorts of things. And that’s where it’s like, okay.
Well, that’s a metric. That’s not a KPI. So you have to first figure out what the KPI is. Is it, hold more people on the page longer, whatever that looks like as the actual, like, goal, in which case, exit rate would be huge.
And then you would go down to the table below and say what’s affecting exit rate on here. Is the price too large, too high? Are we not giving them enough time to scroll? Like, you’d have all sorts of questions you could ask.
But it really does depend. What you want out of a pricing page is for people to choose an option, but that’s not as important as just starting to be a user. So click a button is gonna be a really important thing. It doesn’t always matter which button they click.
However, if increasing average revenue per user is important to you and if they are the kind of company that starts, that like, a lot of companies, when you land on their pricing page, you don’t have to choose a plan. You’ll choose that plan when you go. Other ones, you do choose a plan. So for the ones where you do choose a plan, it might be that you’re trying to optimize to get more people into a higher tier one.
So that could be something, increase average revenue per user. It could be both a KPI in this case and a metric underneath that KPI.
But we’re really just looking at increasing average revenue per user, and there’s lots of ways to figure that out and lots of hypotheses you can come up with if you’re like, oh, no. We’re not. Our our poo went down.
So if that’s the case anyway, there’s that to consider.
Okay.
All sorts of things. All sorts of things.
But start with their goal. So you could also just go out there and do some research on what people want, what business owners want, what SaaS people or even course creators want out of their pricing table.
Yeah. There’s just a lot.
Worksheet
Sharing curiosity on Instagram
Sharing curiosity on Instagram
Transcript
K. So then can I ask one tiny question related to that? I think so.
Thinking about that, and currently, I have Instagram and no posts because I’m like You don’t have Instagram.
Hey. I have an account.
I have a handle with nothing.
But I’m terrified to put anything out there because I’m like Why? What do I what what who am I to say anything? But then you’re talking about just go in and like you own it.
But then I also like, yeah. But I haven’t done, like, this thing in its entirety.
Yeah.
So can I just I don’t wanna say fake it? Like, I’ve done landing pages. I’ve done emails. I’ve done strategy. Like, I’ve done the bits, but I haven’t put them all together to get the result that I’m ultimately wanting to promise.
Mhmm.
You’re not faking it. You’re not lying. Mhmm. You’re saying this matters. This is important. You can come at this from the angle of I am learning about this stuff, and it’s incredible what you can do when you start to know this stuff.
It doesn’t mean you have to come at it as a as a new person either because you have this rich history that you get to bring to this to to talking about it now. I honestly feel like things like fake, failure, imposter, those are words that are created to keep you from moving forward. Mhmm. So just bat them away as they come at you.
Got it. It’s pickleball. Just, like, get rid of it. Just like and it goes away.
I don’t know. But everybody’s talking about pickleball, and I just went by a port. But, like, just poof.
No. No to fake. As soon as it comes in, I’m sure there’s meditative ways to, like, watch it float by. Or you can just bat that shit away. Just like, it’s enough. Like, you know you’re not a fake. Okay?
Full stop. Period. That is a complete sentence. That’s it.
So then I can just, like, talk about the components of it and why it matters and, like, I’m excited about it so that people Your curiosity will inspire other people to be curious, and that’s good.
I know some copywriters will come along and wanna learn from you. You will cross that bridge when we get there. But for now, your curiosity could get the Tara Robertsons of the world, the CMOs to go like, I’m curious about that too. Like, we should bring Marina in to, like, see what we can do here.
So just like the more curious, the more the more, like, open you are about your curiosity and what you’re learning Mhmm.
You’re not a you’re not doing anything remotely wrong if you’re worried about that by sharing your curiosity and these, like, outstanding things that you’re discovering oh, with the world. That’s all a case study is when someone presents a case study. They’re not saying I knew going into this that it would go this way. That would be the most boring case study.
It’s gotta be like, we thought it was this. It turned into that. What the and here’s what we learned. And that’s exactly what you’re going through right now.
I thought it was this. Turns out it’s that. What?
That’s good content.
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay.
Worksheet
Offering a service for pro bono work
Offering a service for pro bono work
Transcript
To know what do you think is the best thing to offer as, a service to be involved? Because they’ll be using my branding throughout their campaign and stuff like that. Or is it not worth doing it?
Oh, it’s worth I I would say when you’re starting out, I say this to everybody, say yes to freaking everything. You’ll figure it out. It’s this is the tax that entrepreneurs pay. We have to say yes to everything out of the gate.
It’s exhausting. We go back and go, like, did that even lead to anything? And then three years later, you go, like, oh. Some things just take longer to harvest.
Okay. That’s fine. Not everything grows overnight.
So yes to doing it, I would say. I would say knowing what you’ve shared. Yes. It doesn’t sound like a bad idea. It will take some time. Yeah. Can you do anything so is it that everybody who attends is it like a raffle to get your services or something, or how or is it like a No.
It’s it’s literally helping them my service was would be to help them promote the houses that are being sold.
Okay.
And then Promote the houses that are being sold for charity. Correct. Okay. Cool.
Okay. So treat it like a proper client.
Treat it like your best client. And how do you all it says, like, no matter what ask them what the what’s the most high value thing? What’s the where’s the biggest challenge usually for them? Like, really interview the person that you’re going to be working with on writing this stuff to get a really strong sense for where you can have the most value such that you can share that and see that there are real wins there.
All you’re doing here, and I teach this in ten x FC, is, like, every job you have is not to make money. It’s to get to that next job, get more jobs. Yes. You should make money.
You do not give it away, but that’s not the point. That’s the illusion that it’s here for money. No. No.
No. What you wanna do is how do I find the thing that’s so high value for them? It might be the sales page. Right?
It might be like, I’ll write your sales page for you, and it should be because that’s closely tied to value, and it’s what you sell.
But make sure you’re going into this building your services out here in such a way that like, what can you do to open curiosity among?
I don’t know what it is. I don’t I don’t know. But I would hire myself if I were you. How do I make sure that I turn this work that I’m going to do into five clients?
That’s my objective. How am I going to get so that means I need probably twenty leads out of it. What do I need to do to make that happen? And get real about it.
What’s the hard thing to do? What’s the easy thing to do? Do the hard thing. Definitely, obviously, do the easy thing.
But if the hard thing is I have to negotiate with this person upfront that with the person that you’re doing the work for, that my name is going to appear and my QR code is going to appear. And I’m gonna need to have a funnel that that gets people through it. I don’t know. Right?
You need to think through that, hire yourself to strategically think through how do I get twenty good leads out of this. Does that make sense? Give yourself a number. Make sure you treat it like this is a marketing campaign for you.
This is not free work. This isn’t pro bono work. This is marketing. So how do you turn it into a campaign?
And, like, have fun with it. That can sound like, I need a whole funnel. Now you get a whole funnel where twenty people could go into it, and you could come out with twenty clients on the other side. Let’s say five to be, like, chill about it, but you could end up with massive things.
So that’s, again, the work. And I’ll probably take you into after hours doing this sort of thinking. Right? It’ll be like a Saturday afternoon where you sit down, close everything down, and put out a piece of paper and write down what are the many ways like, dream it up.
What are the many ways that I could actually get leads out of this?
And then start, like, listing those different dream ideas and then turn it into something that’s like a plan. Like, this is doable, but make sure hard things are on that plan. Make sure they are. Not only because they’ll pay off, but they’ll pay off in terms of now you’ve done that hard thing.
Now it’s the new baseline, and that’s how we, like, keep growing. Right? As entrepreneurs, that’s going up and introducing yourself to somebody like you’re the best person in the room. First time you do that, it’s practice.
You’ll suck at it, and that’s fine. But at least you got some practice, and then you can, like, keep trying and keep going back. And that’s the same thing here. Do something very, very hard and uncomfortable to get twenty leads out of this.
I know I’m being more, like, coachy than specific, but I don’t know what the thing is. You will know what the thing is when you hire yourself, sit down, and do it.
It it for me, to me, it’s almost like I I wanna do a sales page for them because I haven’t done many before, and this is the avenue I’m going down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just will depend on what their time frames are and and everything like that. So Yeah. But, no, that’s that’s awesome advice.
You should do a sales page. And I would say that the way to be really successful as the sales page person is you know, there’s, like, a negative saying around when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I that’s negative. Right? That’s, like, the hell yeah. Oh, really? Oh, there’s, like, a okay. And it’s in my head right now because there’s, like, a sculpture that’s very literal here that’s, like, a body with a hammerhead, and I’m like, calm down.
But, like, what I would say is you should, as a sales page expert, everything that you see, you should default to this can be solved by a sales page. You won’t be right. But at least you’ll start saying, oh, no. That actually I can’t.
And then you’ll know that. Right? But you need to go into the world that you’re in believing that a sales page is the answer to everything. So your starting point for all of this should be, well, obviously, we’re all gonna need sales pages around here, aren’t we?
So I think that’s good. At least start with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Awesome.
Thank you. Cool.
Fun. Thanks, Amanda.
Worksheet