I’ve started a few more people might, join us, but that’s okay. They can catch up with where we are. So as you know today, the first fifteen minutes of this session will be training around the mindset of actually growing a team, and how to successfully sort of make that shift from being, the writer to being the leader in your business. Well I was actually wondering, just before we jump into that, I just need to know, out of the three of you, who already has a team or contractors or an employee?

Mhmm. Okay. Cool. That’s alright, Cody. And Marina and Kim, can you just talk through quickly who that team is or or who the who those those people are?

Sure.

So I have a VA that’s just, ten hours a month, and so I am delegating, some of the I was gonna say grunt work. That sounds really bad. But kind of the SOP, creating SOPs and, creating list of people for prospecting and those kind of things. Mhmm.

And then I have a digital business manager for ten hours a month, and she is, well, getting me organized because I’m writing a book. So she’s doing that. And then also client, management. So we currently have one client working through a system with her for that and then with the goal, of course, of building out more clients and having and then eventual goal of having her manage some of that more client side as I get more SOPs done and so on.

Awesome. Yeah. That’s very cool.

I have a part time business operations person, employee that does accounting and all that stuff that I hate doing. And then I also have two contract writers. One that’s part time, about thirty hours a week.

And she’s been working with me for a while, and I’m hope hoping actually to hire her full time one of these days soon. And then I have another contractor who just started who’s pretty part time.

Awesome. Okay. Great. Congrats, Kimarina. That’s awesome. And, Cody, it sounds like it’s all ahead for you. Is that right?

I do most of it. Yeah. I have somebody that helps me with my website. My husband, he uploads. I designed the website. He uploads it for me so that I’m I’m not spending all that time doing that, but that’s about as far as I’ve gotten.

Yeah. No. That is all good. I think that’s where we all start.

I just want to check with you then, Cody.

And, Kim, maybe for you two too. Although it’s Kim, it sounds like you’ve been maybe working with other people for a a little while in the business. While.

Yeah. I’ve I’ve been I’ve had my business for almost nine years now.

So Okay.

Awesome. And whereas, Marina, it sounds like your hires might might be newer. Although I’m just reading between the lines there, so that could be very incorrect.

No. So these hires are new. I have hired for I’m kind of a serial entrepreneur, and I’ve hired for various roles over the years.

But I’m looking forward to this session because I definitely can make use of it.

K. Cool. Well, before we dive into what’s on the worksheet, I just wanted to really quickly, just touch on the fact that if you are someone who is new to hiring or is about to hire for the first time, there may actually be a mindset shift to tackle, before you get into the space of bringing other people into the business. Because I think, what happens for most of us, right? This is where most of us start. I certainly started here too, is that at the beginning, because you have a business that is at least to begin with you delivering a core skill and delivering projects one on one, you can really quite easily start to over identify with your business. So your business becomes an extension of, or an expression of yourself.

And if you are in that space, from a mindset perspective, it is much, much more harder to bring people in to help you build and grow and create efficiencies within the business because you’re thinking of it as your little domain. Whereas if you’re able to de identify from the business a little bit and start to think of it as an asset that you manage, that is a really key mindset shift just to get to the place where you can start to identify who you should hire, what they can take off your plate and how they can actually help you manage that asset so it’s more profitable, more valuable, whatever that goal is for you. So as I said that that’s all I think it’s almost of you nod. Just wanted to check, is there anything that you want me to dive into more deeply before we get into what’s in the worksheet?

I think what you just said is a really good that’s a very good tip to start thinking about it like that. I I have a really hard time.

I’m not at all I’m like the opposite of a micromanager when it comes to anything to do with the business side of things. But when it comes to the writing, it is so hard for me to not, you know, rewrite or redo or, you know, edit extensively.

Mhmm. And so, yeah, that’s helpful.

Yes. Yeah. So letting go of that is hard. Yeah. I totally get it. Absolutely. Uh-huh.

Yep. And I think, one thing that’s also helpful to keep in mind there with that specific example is that really what you should be promising clients who come to you for your services is an outcome. Right?

So it’s less about promising them that you will do all of that copy and everything will be overseen by you. People will come to you because they wanna get the outcome of what your copy offers. So I think it’s a subtle shift, but if you can think of that, it can actually be easier to then work with other writers in a way that gives them the space to do really great work.

Of course, you know, it doesn’t mean that you don’t oversee what they do and you don’t copy chief, but it can just make letting go and giving that little bit of space that that little bit easier, if you think of that because really, we are selling outcomes to our clients. Right? We’re not we’re not selling it. Well, we should we shouldn’t be selling like ourselves in terms of, you know, this is exactly what I’m gonna do, especially when we’re in a growth phase of our business. So I don’t know if that makes sense, but, hopefully, that can be a helpful little chestnut to to take with you.

So quick follow-up to that.

In the previous q and a today, we were talking about branding and my brand, and I need a personal brand and so on. And, true, working on it, all of that.

So how do you then think of your business as not an extension of you? So I’m I’d like to build out an agency. There’s no way that I can possibly do all the work that I am envisioning that I want this to be. Not even possible. But on the other side, so the business needs a brand.

Mhmm. But then, also, I am developing a personal brand. So how does your personal brand and your business brand, like, how did those come together? So you’re not, like, I am not promising that I’m going to be doing the work. The company will be doing the work, and that’s founded on that.

So the business will have a reputation as such, but then as a personality kind of belonging to that because I think of it as an alter ego. Like, it’s me, but it’s not me. Right?

So it’s that alter ego that belongs to or is connected to the business.

So how do you, present and grow those two things kind of simultaneously without people thinking that it’s that you are that?

Brand?

Such a good question. So I think just as your personal brand and the way that you show up within that, so the values you share, the ideas you have, the way you think through things, just as that will attract ideal prospects for you. It should also help you attract your ideal team, right, so that you are able to create a team that aligns with your values and your vision. And, of course, remember that part of your job as a manager or leader will be training and support.

So even though it’s not you doing all the work, as you said, it’s an agency model is where you’re where you’re headed, the fact that you are, you know, at the helm of that ship, I guess, means that you’re the one who’s driving the culture of that organization. You’re the one who’s setting the standards.

You’re the one who is, you know, signing off on the big things before they go out into the world. So I think if you think about it from that perspective, you can see how your personal brand can absolutely still help people see what it is that your business offers specifically, what gives you that business your, you know, the edge it has, what, gives it its USP. So, you know, the personal brand will help with those things. And it still doesn’t mean that it has to be you doing everything. Right? Because you have infused those values, that training, those structures through the business itself so that everything that operates within it is a representation of and in alignment with the personal brand. Does that make sense?

So sort of like I’m just trying to filter through.

So thinking about this personal brand and they’re sort of the face of the business representing the business Mhmm. Culture and ideology and so on, and then the business is is the outcomes.

So the the personal brand is that point of connection and culture, and then the business is upholding, fulfilling the promises, I guess, of that. Is that kind of Yes.

So they’re integrated because if I change the personal brand, then I attract different people.

Mhmm. But regardless of what brand that ends up being on the personal side, this the role of the business is then to uphold, complete the promises or deliver on all the promises, that the personal brand kind of embodies.

Is that Yes. Kind of?

Yeah. That’s right. So there’s a synergy between them. Right? And they’re helping feed and support each other, and they’re helping build the reputation and uphold the reputation of each other.

And yet it’s still not that you need to be the person in the business doing all the things because you’re the face of that business. I mean, think of Jo. I think of copy hackers. Right?

I mean, she’s the face of copy hackers. Right? But she’s also certainly not the person who’s writing all the copy for all the clients. You know?

She’s is probably involved on some level, but she has a team of copywriters who are doing that for her. She has an agency doing that for her. But you know because she’s the face of the business that if you were at an event where she was on stage, you’d absolutely get a taste of how she thinks, what her values are, who she likes to work with, what kind of results you might be able to expect from working with her. Right?

So she’s sort of like the marketing of the business in a way. And then, you know, she’s obviously she’s responsible as, you know, the leader of copy hackers to make sure that the agency in the business does deliver on those things and follow through, but she’s not the one necessarily in the weeds doing all of those things on a micro level. Does that make sense? Right.

Yes. And then people have confidence in that personal brand because then like, thinking about Jo, obviously, they know Jo is not doing all of the stuff.

Okay.

But because they align with her thinking and, like, how she does stuff and her epic, like, all of those things Mhmm.

Then they move forward with the business because they trust they trust kind of the front person.

And so then all of the the businesses, the worker bees, were doing the stuff that is Mhmm. By that front person.

Absolutely. And they also part of that trust of of Jo in that scenario is that she would not let a project be delivered that doesn’t meet her standards.

Yes.

Yes. So that’s an important piece too. So it also helps you, I guess, define your role as a team leader or as a manager because it’s like, okay. All of a sudden, like, I have to really repay my prospects trust in me that even though it’s not me personally creating all these deliverables or doing all the, you know, messy down in the weeds work, they’re trusting me that it’s gonna be delivered to a standard equality that I would be really proud to stand behind and that aligns with everything I put out into the world.

So I don’t know if that is helping further or my hand is yeah.

Well, so then it’s kind of like you’ve got the the gatekeeper. She’s not gonna let any projects come in that she can’t deliver on. And then once they’re past sort of her the gate, her as the gate, and the work is being done. And before the work heads out again, it there’s that kind of quality check.

Yes. Absolutely. Okay.

I know you can’t see what it’s in my head, but I’m like, okay. I’m getting the visual. This is good.

No. I love I’m loving your hands. I talk with my hands too. So I’m like, yes. My hand talking friends.

Okay.

Perfect.

Questions on that, Kim or Cody, or any comments before we move into things on a, I guess, a slightly different level?

No. I just agree with her. I mean I mean, with everything that was said because I’ve been doing this too for a long time. I started in twenty seventeen, so I’ve had to figure out my brand multiple, multiple times.

And so, yeah, it is it can be confusing at first, but I think just realizing that the brand is just, like, the face of the business and then everything else that gets delivered on the back end there is, like, you just wanna uphold your brand, right, by making sure you’re delivering what you say you’re gonna deliver. And you’re the one out there with the messages. You’re the one out there, like, saying all the things right, but then then you have, like, that quality check. Right?

Like, if I hire a bunch of people, there’s no way that I’m not gonna look over that and be like, we need to make sure this is right before we stick it out there because the brand is on the line. Right?

Yes. I love that. Yeah. Your reputation’s on the line. The trust that you have with your prospects and your customers is on the line as well. So, yes, the synergy between those two things has to be really on point.

But I mean, listen to you guys. You obviously give a shit. Right? You really care about that. So you’re not going to be the kind of people who’s just going to say all the right things as your personal brand and bring all the people in and then just, you know, let whatever was going to happen happen. Right? You’re going to be on top of it.

Okay, alright.

Sorry we have a little bit less time for questions than I thought but that’s okay, let me dive into the worksheet just so we can talk a little bit more deeply about two of the key mindset problems that I see pop up for most people when they are actually hiring or building a team. Let me just share my screen.

Okay. Hopefully, you guys can see the worksheet. Just give me a yeah. Okay. Perfect. Right.

Sorry. I feel like your faces are always right where I need to press a button, which is my bad. Okay. So, just to dive into this a bit further, so I guess what we’ve talked about there is the, you know, the very first mindset shift that needs to happen before you’re in a place where you are ready, able, and excited to hire a team, right, to start outsourcing bits of your work, that are really important to you. Right. It’s not that you’re outsourcing the stuff that you don’t care about, even if it is, you know, that grunt work and those little itty bitty pieces, they are often the foundations of what allows you to do, you know, the really flashy, fun, exciting work. So it is all really important.

Now the thing that I think we’ve just touched on, is that I have a mistake now.

Sorry. There we go. If you have been operating as a business of one for a while now, you’re used to doing all of the things and having control over all the things and letting go of this is often one of the trickiest parts of the shift. Right. Because when you are not the person doing the thing, of course, there’s room for error. Right. Or at least it feels like there’s more room for error than there would normally be.

On top of that, the kind of leaders or managers you’ve had in the past will almost certainly shape the way you show up for your own people, which can be problematic for the simple fact that we often overcorrect.

So the example I’ve got here is if you’ve had a team leader in the past who was really harsh and unsupportive, we might be overly kind and flexible as a result of that. And of course, that kind of leadership approach, is actually detrimental to your team and your business. Even though it might feel like you’ve been a very nice kind person, it does mean that you’re probably not doing the job as you should be doing it.

On top of those two things, leading others often creates a whole new space for our own maladaptive tendencies to flourish if left unchecked. So that things like people pleasing, perfectionism, all those kind of lovely traits that we all have, you know, at least one or two of, they get a whole new platform to, show up in if we are not on top of them and aware of when they may be at play, and what they might actually look like.

So when I work with people who are about to hire or often more often than not, it’s actually when they’re moving from just having a VA, you know, a handful of hours a month to actually have someone who is either more senior, more involved in the actual client deliverables. So like a writer, or someone who is more embedded in the business, so someone who may actually be an employee rather than a contractor.

The two challenges that I see come up ninety percent of the time, the first one of those is a fear of being unlikable.

Now this is definitely the one I fell into early on. I am at heart a people pleaser. So this is my trap, right? So if this is resonating with you too, you’re in good company.

But the fear of being a like will often leads to a tendency to pull into a friendship model of leadership, which is problematic for a whole host of reasons. Namely, you’re likely to avoid tough conversations, gloss things over, set nebulous expectations, hold loose boundaries, be lax on accountability, and let people operate within their comfort zone one hundred percent of the time, which ultimately leads to them having no opportunities to grow and develop. Right. So you’re not being a good leader and you’re not fostering an environment for your employees or your contractors to actually do good work.

So remember here that good leadership is not about being liked. Right. And maybe we can all think of someone in the past, whether it was in the previous business we had or when we worked maybe nine to five, who was a really great leader, but who maybe we didn’t really like that much on a personal level. Right. They’re separate things.

So being a good leader is really about helping people realize their potential, and being a friend to someone first and a leader second is not the best way to do that.

So if you do find yourself getting tripped up here, you’re likely someone who needs some level of warmth in their leadership style, because it is important that you are a leader in your own authentic way. Right? It’s not about fitting a certain mold, and trying to fake it till you make it because you’ve been told this is how certain good leaders work. It’s about finding a way to be yourself and be really natural and authentic, in that role. Because at the end of the day, that’s what’s going to be sustainable. And it’s also what’s going to help infuse your business and the people that work for you, with that culture, right? With that essence of you that we have just been talking about.

So it may help if this is resonating with you to think about the difference between being a friend to someone and being friend Lee.

So I’ve got a table here for you and we can if this is resonating, we can spend some time now going through some situations and sort of brainstorm what the difference in response here might be between a friend and a friendly leader. But just as an example, so let’s say you have a contractor, maybe a subcontractor who helps you with your copywriting projects and they fail to deliver a key piece of work on time. And let’s just say it’s for the first time ever, right? Because if this is a pattern that you’re seeing within them, obviously, it’s time to let them go.

In this situation, a friend might say, oh, don’t worry and just do the work for them. Right? They’re going to jump in. They’re going to take on that load and they’re going to fix the problem themselves without any real consequence to that contractor who has missed the mark.

On the other hand, a friendly leader might do something like work really quickly to find a solution in the here and now. Right. Because it’s obviously really important that that key piece of work gets done and gets to where it needs to go. But after that’s happened, take the time to understand what actually happened and whether there’s something that either they or the contractor could do to prevent the same thing from happening in the future. So having that kind of conversation after the fact, lays down really clear expectations or reinforces clear expectations.

It is also a way to collaborate with that person. And collaboration, I think, is such a key part of good leadership, right? You’re on the same team, quite literally. You’re working towards the same kind of goals. So it’s about, okay, how can we actually support each other to get there, to get this business closer to the vision I actually have for it?

So in that way, if you take that approach, clear expectations, clear boundaries, maybe new SOPs, right, if that’s what’s necessary, but also really clear accountability for that person. So you’ve agreed on something that next time they have that task, if they again fail to deliver on time. Okay. That’s a really clear indication that something here is not going to work. You are not filling your role. It’s time to part ways.

So any questions on that or otherwise, any situations you can think of that you have either had or really worried about how having, and you would like to talk through how you may respond in a more effective way? If if not, that’s okay. Yep.

Marina, it was a quick hand.

Sorry.

Yes. This is, this is me.

So friendly versus friend.

So where are, like, the conversation boundaries? Like, I like to be collaborative, and then I start using we language.

Mhmm. Right? Like, we should do this, and when this happens, we should, and this is our and, like, all of that kind of.

And then but the bottom line is, at the end of the day, the buck stops with me. The buck doesn’t stop with the other person. Right?

So how can I be And then, I take on, yeah, take on some things because I’m like, oh, well, that’s probably asking too much? So I’ll do this. And then because it’s this, like, oh, well, we’re on the same level. We’re on the same team. We’re on the same level.

So how can you be friendly?

Okay.

Like, kindness is sort of my overarching, like that’s why I operate. I think, k, kindness is the filter for everything. So how can you be kind and friendly while still having exacting standards? Like, this is what I expect.

This is Mhmm. What needs to happen. This is when it needs to happen.

But then if it doesn’t, then then how can you still be friendly, and not take that friend route where you’re like, oh, I’m really disappointed, but we’ll figure it out Mhmm.

Which isn’t really the answer. And then you’re just kind of, like, angsty and not really wanting to look the person in the eye because every time you do, then you’re like, last time they let me down.

Mhmm. Right?

So how do you how do you I don’t know what I’m trying to ask.

That would be the best. That would be the best. Be more that friendly leader.

Mhmm. Yes. And I love the way you describe that too. It’s like, ah, I found myself in a hell of my own making. Pretty much.

So a quick question for you first. Is it that you find it really hard to identify the expectations you wanna set or to communicate those?

I find it hard to communicate those primarily well, let’s just say that my husband and I have tried working together on things. There is a point to this. And he’s like, you’re really hard to work for because and then I worked my brother and I did a SaaS startup, and we kinda went here on fire for three years. And I’m, like, here’s the goal.

Let’s go for the goal. Drive. Drive. Drive. And I forget that people have lives, and I just, like, drive.

Like, I can do the thing.

And so then then I try to have this, like, oh, okay. I need to breathe a little bit so I can be easier to work with. But I still like, I have goals, and I wanna get to those goals. And I wanna I want people to come alongside. It’s gonna be beneficial for them, beneficial for me. Like, let’s do good work together.

But then I find, I’m a hard driver. Like, I drive really hard, and so I don’t wanna burn people out. So then I end up going way too far on the other side being that brand.

Mhmm.

Which then is just not really. Like, it’s this facade because inside, I’m like, come on. Like, if we wanna get this goal, then we need these deadlines. And, sure, they’re arbitrary, but I set them because that’s how we’re gonna get this goal. Right?

Mhmm. Mhmm.

I don’t I can’t remember what the question was even now.

Oh, no.

Sorry. I’m like, I drive too I drive too hard. So I’m like, how can I, yeah, have reasonable expectations for people so that it can be friendly, and then I don’t have to, like, pretend that I’m buddy buddy to try to, like, get them to work more?

Yes. And as you were sharing, another question came up for me, and that was and this may be like, the answer may be no, but I just wanna check.

Is there an element that you think you’re falling more into being really friendly because you think you set the bar so high? Like, your expectations of maybe the pace of work or the volume of work is so high that you feel like you need to counter that with, like, all that, like yeah. Totally.

Yeah.

Because I’m like, well, maybe if I’m really nice, then oh, now you’re knowing all my secrets.

But but it’s just kind of like this okay. Well, if I’m nice and collaborative and try to be good to work with, then maybe they’ll keep up the pace and we can do this. But if Mhmm. If I fall into the, like okay.

Well, this is due on this day. This is due on this day. How are you doing on this? And, like, more, just results oriented, then I feel like I’m gonna lose them.

Mhmm.

Yeah. Interesting.

I mean, I think we could do a whole therapy session on this because this must come from somewhere.

No.

We won’t go.

We won’t go there today.

She’s totally of its own, like, its own delusion.

So first of all, it is okay. And it is even really wonderful to be both kind and ambitious.

You can be both those things and you should own both those things, right? I think the worst possible approach to things here is that you’re not open about how ambitious you are and how much you expect people to keep pace with you when you bring them on. Because there are people out there who will be excited by that, who work like you, who think like you, who are like, yes, this is awesome. Like, let’s go.

I want to do this with you. So I think that’s really going to be a really key piece for you, right? To have those expectations really clear and to lead with those when you start to hire someone or you start to onboard someone, because I think if it’s a surprise to them, right, and then as you start to try and get them to do the things you want them to do on your timeline, you know, they’re probably going to be some pushback or some freak out. And that’s when you are going to kick into friend mode because you’re going to be like, why can’t I do?

You know, they might be about to run away from me. So let’s let’s bring it back and let’s dial it back in. But of course, that’s not helping either of you because it means that you’re stuck in this place of frustration and feeling like you’re just not getting what you need from them. And your employee or your contractor is also stuck in a place where they feel like expectations are muddy.

You know, sometimes she feels like she just wants so much from me. But then the way she communicates about that, it’s kind of, like, really lax. And, like, I feel like I’m not being held to any sort of deadline or any sort of, you know, really clear boundary around this. So I actually think for you specifically, a huge part of this is just gonna be around clarity of communicating expectations and also finding a way to be able to, like, KPI those things.

Like, okay, let’s look at this. How are we gonna know when this is actually done or achieved?

Because I think if you can clearly identify that and the person that you’re training and upskilling can get on board with those things, that also takes some stuff off your plate. Right? Because you’re not gonna need to check-in with them every, you know, morning, like, how’s it going? They’ll know.

They’ll be like, okay. I’m tracking towards this. Here’s here’s where I’m at. That’s the update.

I’m okay. I don’t need help. Let me keep going.

So is any of this sort of helping?

Yes. I think that that is I’m afraid of, like, scaring people away by saying, this is what I expect.

Uh-huh. And and I expect that, and you’ll be compensated well. And when we win, you’ll get a piece of that.

But but I’m afraid of saying that because then I think, well, maybe they’re gonna think it’s too much work and but then they’re not really the right person to work with anyway.

Exactly.

If so that’s why you need to be clear about it and say it upfront. Right? And this is a probably a good example too of, like, your personal brand attracting the right people to help you bring that to life in your business. Right?

You know, you’re ambitious. You wanna get things done. That’s great. So talk about that and the people who are gonna fit that out there.

Right? I mean, there may be a point at which I don’t I don’t know. I feel like you can’t expect someone to work, for example, like, you know, sixteen hour days every day. So but I don’t think it’s about that.

Right?

No.

It’s I think it’s more like about I want people to be on board.

Like, let’s Mhmm. Let’s all be working towards the same goal. Like, every the jobs that I get people to do are important because if they don’t do them, even if they’re admin tasks if they don’t do those admin tasks well, everything else suffers too. Right?

Mhmm.

So it’s not a matter of whose job is more important. It’s like do your job with excellence. Mhmm. Yes.

I love that. You know, I would like, I mean, not now. I’ve said in my life, I would love to work for you. You know, I feel like the more you can communicate this, the better, because it is going to resonate with people and you’re talking there about values too. And I actually think that what you shared just then is gonna be really empowering for the right people to hear. Like, oh, cool. Like, my piece of the pie is really important.

Here’s how it all fits in together. Right? Because that, I think, adds accountability and also motivation. Like it incentivizes them to do the job and to do it well if they can see how it fits into the big picture.

So I think, again, there’s probably a piece in there that, like, after you’ve communicated that again, getting really clear on KPIs and setting them up so that they can actually, you know, almost automate because they’re humans. But, you know, maybe there’s something there where they can preemptively check-in with you and let you know where they’re up to so that you’re not in a space of like worrying about that or worrying about having to push them too hard to get to the place because you have visibility on where they’re at and how that aligns with your timelines.

How does that fit? Like, the the VA that I have, she’s doing that. Like, she’s like, oh, by the way, I did this. This is what I tried.

This is the outcome. Do you want like, she’s, like, checking in, and she’s not asking me how to do things. She’s just saying, here’s the update. Here’s what I did.

Here so many hours I have left. Here’s the projects that are and I’m like, I love you. Like Right.

That’s that’s what I’m I mean yeah.

So Great. This is really helpful. I don’t wanna hog at the time, though, but I’m like, wow. This is I saw that this was coming up, and I was like, okay. This is this is timely. This is good.

I gotta be there. Awesome. And I too, like, remember that every time you work with someone and I know I’ve done it before, but this is, you know, the new highs in this current business, everything’s a learning opportunity for you too. Right? So take the time to reflect on what’s working well and what’s not, and know that you can actually take those reflections to that person and share them openly so that you can talk about what’s working for you and what’s not, because you may find that the things that aren’t working for you are also not working for them. Right. And then you’ve got two people working in silence in a way that does not suit either of them.

Right.

I think open honest communication can really go a long way. And I think for you, it’s really important to start that at the point of hiring and be really open and clear and transparent with expectations and their piece and their part in the business and in the vision, because I think that will empower and attract the right people, which I think will probably be half of the battle. Right?

Yeah. I think so. Thank you. Pleasure. Cody, I hope some of this is at least helpful for you.

It is.

I like, my husband too, and he still needs a lot of things.

Right? And and it’s funny because it’s just like sometimes, you know, like, he won’t stay on task. And so I feel like I’m, you know, getting, like, drilling him a little bit because I need these pages done by a certain time, and you agreed to do it. And I’ll, like, come in there, and he’ll be, like, checking his crypto charts.

Or I’m like, what are you doing? You know? Like, okay. Maybe what we need to do is set, like, a schedule.

Like, okay. Between this hour and this hour, you’re only gonna work on this. You know? So stay focused.

Right?

Those kinds of things. But I definitely, I can relate with you a lot with a lot of the things that you said because I have similar situation.

Awesome. Well, it’s I always feel like it’s so good to know in these workshops that, one, you’re not alone, but, also, it’s really good when you get to learn through someone else’s conversation. So I’m glad that some of that was relevant, Cody. That’s awesome.

Yeah. And I really liked when you said to be open about your expectations. Right? Because hiring somebody you know, with him, it’s different.

Obviously, we live together. He’s just helping me. Right? Like, just until I can hire someone else to do it.

And, it’s just really eye opening to be like, okay. Yeah. Communicate that. Even in your brand, that you value those things, that you value being open, like, that you value, that you can that people care about the outcome of your work or that we meet deadlines or that we stay on task, those kinds of things.

Right?

Yep. Absolutely. It’s never too early to start communicating those those values about how and why you work, hundred percent. And, also, this is a slide night, guys. Like, I’m impressed that whether you can work with your husband.

I cannot imagine my husband and I working together because I feel like it’s really hard when you have an existing relationship with someone, right? Because then you’ve got dual relationships and it’s like, well, am I your wife or am I your manager? Like, so I feel like that’s an added layer of challenge. So kudos to both of you for making it work for certain periods of time.

I’m just grateful that he does help. So I try not to push very hard because I don’t, you know, I don’t want him to be like, well, you know what? I’m not gonna help you at all.

But at the same time, like, he agreed to help me, and I want you to follow through with what you said you’re gonna do. You know? So Mhmm. There is a balance but we work really well as a team like that.

So Awesome.

Yeah. That’s what I just wanna say, which may not be relevant, but just as a point, generally so it might not be relevant for you, Cody, but just generally when you said like you find him and he’s checking out his, he said stocks or something. I can’t remember.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It’s it’s funny too, because I wonder if that in a way is a really good example of how our expectations around how work gets done and the time it takes can be more problematic than helpful because the goal really is that people are reaching the outcomes at the time we need them to be reached by. Right? Like, you know, you could put all three of us in an office together, and if we all had the same task to complete by five PM, I’m sure we’d all go about it in a totally different way. You know, I’d probably be often having a swim in the sea for an hour in the morning because that’s how I work, but doesn’t mean that I’m not going to do the thing to the right standard by the right time. So just, you know, something to just think about, as you go about and hire people and build a team.

No. I really I I really appreciate that too, and I agree. We all do it differently.

My experience, the only reason why I didn’t really appreciate walking into that is because he is more of a like, he’s not very good with deadlines. He straight up told me he doesn’t like deadlines.

He doesn’t Mhmm. Get into deadlines, these kinds of things.

I’m like, well, then we don’t we need them for, like, at least, like, somewhere to, you know, focus. We can’t just not have, like, a goal at all. You know? So Yes.

Tricky. But yeah. Yeah. I I agree. And I think that your point there is really good too. As long as people are getting the job done and they’re doing the work to a decent standard, a good standard, your standard, then I think it doesn’t matter how they get there ultimately. So I I totally agree.

Yep. Awesome. Alright. Well, let’s talk some time. I think we’ve got two minutes. Let’s talk about the other really common mindset challenge, which is fear of losing control, which, as you can imagine, often leads to a tendency to fall into a micromanagement style of leadership.

Unfortunately, if this is your style, it often means that team members become disempowered and demotivated, display less innovation and creativity, and may also develop a dependence on you, which, of course, increases your load and therefore your chances of coming out. So again, not a great leadership style. Remember the good leaders actually create space for people to grow into and use trust to empower performance. Right. So, I actually think I watched a little bit of, Shane’s workshop on hiring in the Philippines. I don’t know if either of you guys were there, but I feel like he does a phenomenal job of trusting his team and his employees. So I feel like if you haven’t watched it, Cody, go back and watch it just purely even just for that.

Because I feel like his stance there and you can just say, like, he trusts them so much. And he also really embraces that growth mindset in his team. You know, that failure and mistakes are inevitable. And in fact, if you’re not having them, you’re not growing enough.

You’re not being challenged enough. So it’s about how you respond to them. So all of that stuff, I just feel like Shane is an excellent example. Oh, alright.

But which video was that that he did?

So I can write it down.

It’s I think it was called how to hire in the Philippines. Is that right, Marie? I can’t remember now. It’s, it’s on the CSP on the website. It’s the most recent recording. It’s up for this month.

Okay. Yeah. It’s on that whole it’s on the first page of CSP. I think it was, like, last week.

It might have been last Thursday.

Okay. Cool.

Yeah. Totally worth it. Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome.

So anyway, if you do find yourself getting tripped up here, and this applies to either of you, either of you in micromanager territory, Marina, nodding or maybe nodding at someone else. Sorry.

I think if I am not exactly sure of the outcome and I’m really worried about stuff Mhmm.

Then I’ll micromanage. But if I have a system in place and I can just say, there’s the SOP. Do the thing. This is what it looks like when it’s done. Like Joe said about paint it done. This is what the outcome should be, then do it.

Like, I yeah. I assigned something to my VA today. I was gonna do it myself, and then I was like, no. You have the VA.

That’s like, you need to train yourself to use the VA. Right? Mhmm. And so then, yeah, then I gave instruction.

I said, this is what it looks like when it’s done. And then I’m just trusting that it’s gonna show up like that or better.

Right? Perfect. So Yep. But it’s a choice. It doesn’t come natural necessarily.

Yes. You’re training yourself to do it. Right? You’re training yourself to let go a little bit. Yep. Sorry, Cody.

You were gonna say something, and I I just don’t know.

I’m I guess I just need to ask my husband how he feels.

He’ll probably say, yeah.

You know, and, like, I don’t really like how that looks. We’re in the same room. Maybe that’s part of the problem. I don’t know. But, I don’t know.

I haven’t worked with I haven’t hired, I guess, a lot of people yet to be able to tell for sure, but I do know that when he’s working on my website or something, I will have to go in there and fix things, you know, because things need to be a certain size for people to read it and stuff. And, you know, he might miss that, and so I’ll have to go in there and be like, okay. We need to make this. But that’s like a quality control thing, though. So I don’t really know if that’s considered micromanaging. I I’ve been managers in multiple different places, and people have always enjoyed working with me. And I’ve never been called a micromanager, so I don’t I don’t know.

Yep. Awesome. I mean, I feel like those are all good signs. And I feel like that example is, yeah, definitely a quality control. Right? It’s like you coming to look at the final product and making sure it does actually tick all the boxes before it goes what it goes live.

I think, too, something to say here, when you are starting to hire and when you are working with someone new and you’re still, you know, maybe it’s, you know, the first run or the first project you work with someone, remember that at the beginning, it’s much easier to trust the process, right, the SOP that you’ve helped create than it is to trust the person. But ideally, at some stage, that almost flips in that if you’ve hired the right person, you’ve supported them in the right way, and they are on board enough with your business and what you’re trying to achieve, they might be able to find a better way to do the thing.

Right? And by that point, because you’ve worked together, hopefully, for quite a period of time, you actually trust them. So I don’t know if that helps, but to begin with, if you are struggling a bit to let go of things, to stop controlling all the things, remember that if you’re building those SOPs, you can really trust those processes and the trust in the person and their abilities, and the creative thinking can actually come later. And that’s okay.

So I don’t know if that’s helpful, but, maybe it’s something to rip off.

If you do find yourself getting tripped up here with any micromanagement, sort of tendencies, it is actually helpful to focus on what you can control. So for example, those SOPs, so who you hire, what they do, and how you train and support them. That is absolutely under your control, and that is what you should be focusing on. That is your job. Those are some of your really big picture KPIs here when you’re moving into having a team.

To go a little bit further on this, it might even be helpful to write yourself a past or current and present or future job description so that you can see how your role has or will shift and how you can perform well within it.

So super simple example here, but let’s say you’re in the space now where you don’t have anyone helping you out with your content creation.

So maybe we’re just one of your key responsibilities of which I’m sure there are many, many, many might be that you create and distribute content. Now your KPI for that, which key performance indicator, I’m sure you’ve know that the lingo of that, obviously, is that, okay, if I post on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube five times per week, that’s a tick for me. And also because content is not just about getting stuff out there, but about how it actually flows back into your business. If that drives thirty sign ups per week to my workshop, then that’s also a tick. Right? That’s what I’m aiming for here with that key responsibility at the moment.

If or when you get to the place where you’re able to hire someone to take that content creation piece off your plate, your key responsibilities and therefore your KPIs are gonna change. So in this case, it might be that your key responsibilities now are are the facilitated quarterly content strategy meeting to support the content lead in their role and maybe that you sign off on key content pieces before distribution.

Because of that, your KPIs are gonna change again, and they may be things like, okay. First of all, I need to ensure that SOPs are up to date and easy to execute because if I can’t do that and put that in my content, they can’t do their job. It may also be that another KPI here might be something like you spend less than two hours a month on content related tasks. Right?

Because that’s a good indication for you that your content lead is actually doing their job and doing it well because rather than spending, you know, four hours a week, it’s now two hours a month. So again, maybe just thinking through things like that might actually help you see where your time and energy and effort needs to go now and how to actually measure the success of that. And this might be helpful to even if you’re not worried about micromanaging, but even if you’re just sort of wanting some help to make the shift between, you know, being a business of one or being the person who does most of the things to actually being a manager, just putting it down on paper can actually really help because we often do this for the job that we’re hiring for, but not for ourselves.

And of course, both things change when you make a hire. So, something to keep in mind. And my last point here, and then I’ll close this and we can use the rest of the time for any questions whatsoever.

One of the most important things you can do as a leader in your business is foster a growth mindset in yourself and your team.

So leverage failure and mistakes as a way to do better and model the kind of behavior that you want as a team. I feel like those are the most important things. They’re the big picture stuff. Right?

So if you can really nail that, I think the rest becomes much, much easier. And remember too that, of course, you know, being a manager or being a manager in this current business might be a new thing for you, too. So you’re going to learn some things along the way and you’re going to learn something the hard way. So I think if you take the pressure off yourself to be perfect from the outset and you’re more open to, again, being able to respond appropriately to mistakes that you might make, and being able to adapt processes and ways of working accordingly, I just think it’s gonna be a much more enjoyable and much more successful venture for you.

Let me stop sharing this so I can see your faces a bit better.

Any questions, comments, thoughts?

Well, I I really like that you put, like, how our jobs will change because I’m looking forward to that a lot because I don’t really I mean, I when it comes to, creating and distributing content, like, I just oh my gosh. I feel like I’m in this black hole right now with it because, I have all these other things to do in here. I have to, like, do all this. And I’m just like, this is, like, the bane of my existence. You know? It’s just awful.

Like, if I could have somebody if I just write it out, like, I like, Marina was talking earlier about carousels, and I’m like, those are horrible for me too because I don’t know what to put on them all the time. Like, is it too much information? Is it too little information? Like, how do I make it look good?

I don’t know. So, like, can I just write this and have somebody else, like a designer, put the carousel together? That’d be so nice. You know?

And then and reply to people and all that stuff. Like, that would be nice.

Awesome. Yeah. Oh, that’s good. I feel like this could almost be like a vision board for you in a way. It’s like, wow. All the stuff I can upload.

Well and if you watch that if you watch that, training that Shane did Mhmm.

He talks about how to get to that point where you like, how to systemize that systematize stuff. The unfortunate thing is that you have to be able to do it first yourself to make the SOP.

Right.

But I think that’s the current job description on this worksheet, right, is that we are doing the thing.

Mhmm.

And then the future pro the future job description is that somebody else is doing the thing, and the KPI, I’ll know that they’re doing the thing properly because now I have that time back, and I can do something else. Is that am I reading that right?

Yes. That’s right.

Yes. Yeah. Looking forward to that too.

Yeah. Because I feel like that KPI as well. So if the person isn’t doing a good job, you you’ll be spending more than two hours a month as well. So it’s also a good indication they’re doing their job well. Not that they’re just taken off your plate, but it’s like, cool. They’ve taken off my plate to the point where it’s working and I don’t have to worry about it. That’s an indication of a good hire and also an indication that you have done a good job as a manager in setting up and supporting that person to do the thing to the standard that you expect.

Does that make sense? Sorry.

I feel like your face is like, oh, no.

I did that. No. No. It does make sense. I’m like, I am committing to doing the social media stuff for two months, like, to create all of to because I’m in that current job description, and I’m like, okay. In order for me to get to the next to that future job description, then I have to go through this and make all the SOPs and do all of the things and create all of that so that I can move into that next job description.

And then, thankfully, we went over challenge one, and then I can just be really clear in my expectations for that position.

So then I can have these KPIs, meaning spending excellent, number of hours less time, blah blah blah, all that.

But it has to be very strategic.

Like, it seems like it’s it’s not just, like, willy nilly, oh, I’m gonna get this off my plate, but it, I feel like it’s like, okay. Very deliberate. I’m creating this so then I can do this.

Mhmm. And if I set set this job description up well and the SOPs up well, then I’m setting myself up for success so I don’t have to be friend a friend boss. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

I know. It’s a big process. And I feel like the irony, of course, there’s always an irony of when you are hiring team members, you’re already feeling the squeeze. But then the time and effort required to build the SOPs, for example, and to find the right person is added stuff to your plate. Right? So it is a it is a long term play because things are probably gonna feel squishy in the next, you know, month or two for you. But then ideally, if you take the time to find the right person, you’ve taken the time to build those SOPs so that they are so easy to follow and you can trust them before you can trust the person necessarily, then, you know, a few months from now, happy days.

Surely, it’ll be a new challenge, but happy days for this particular thing.

Yeah. But then that we can handle a new challenge. That’s fine.

Totally. That’s how we grow. Yeah. Guys, well, thanks so much for coming. Thanks for all your excellent questions and, sharing so much about what has and hasn’t been working for you.

I’m in Slack, obviously. So please, if you have any follow-up questions or thoughts or if you find yourself in a scenario, Marina, maybe where you’re like, ah, shit. I don’t wanna respond like a friend, but how can I do this in a friendly leader sort of way? Please tag me.

I’m so happy to help in there. And, yeah, never be shy. I feel like I always be able to tag me, and I never do. So please please feel free.

Thank you.

Enjoy the rest of your day, and I’ll see you soon.

Yeah. Thank you for the session.

No worries. Bye. Bye, Tina.