Awesome. Okay. Cool.

So we’re gonna dive in right away here for everybody who’s just joined.

Jenny is in today. It’s five o’clock Jenny’s time, and it’s similar for a couple people in the room.

Yeah. So we’re talking about luxury brands, campaigns for them, basically working with them. If you have questions, we’ve got our usual twenty minutes up front where Jenny will be teaching, and then we’ll break into questions. So please have any questions that you’ve got written down ready to go. We’ll do the usual raise your hand, share a win, before you ask your question, and then we’ll we’ll, we’ll see when this wraps up. We’ll wrap up when we’re all out of questions, or when the hour is up.

Cool. Alright. So this is recording.

Jenny, welcome. We’re so glad to have you in today to share your insights here.

When you’re ready, feel free to start screen sharing or just dive right in. Yeah.

So the millennial question, are you all seeing my screen?

Yes. Yep.

Yeah. Perfect.

So yeah. So this presentation yeah. Welcome, first of all. This presentation was initially called the dramatic arc. And then as I, yeah, started preparing and so on, I realized, no. It needs to have a different angle. So it’s actually the store all about the story selling arc.

So you see, like, two components, story and selling here.

To run you through the contents so, yeah, first again, a couple of words about myself so you know where my approach is rooted in, then moving on the main meat of the presentation, what I call where drama theory meets copywriting, then all about the how, the examples, seeing things, applied, and, yeah, last but not least, the benefits. Why are we doing this? Why is it why is it useful? What will it bring us?

So yeah.

I initially started in house, at Farfetch now seven years ago.

And then in the midst of my journey, I I somehow found my way into freelancing, now doing it full time.

Scary transition, but totally worth worth it.

I have come, yeah, to work with some of the most notable luxury brands on this planet and, yeah, have been the voice to to their campaigns, writing everything from landscape campaigns that if you follow them, you probably have seen, to, like, crazy details like the hang tags, texts of in in exhibition halls. So very versatile background.

All of this to say that, yeah, this approach is is heavily rooted in luxury and maintaining an elevated voice and really keeping the brand story at the center of communication.

Jenny. Mhmm.

Can I ask a quick question?

Yeah. Because I didn’t realize it’s fascinating to me the different things that people have to work on in their job as a copywriter.

Hang tags, like, when you’re buying something? Hang tags. Yeah. Yeah.

What other weird things do you have to write?

Oh, gosh. No. No. Hang tags definitely. Also, the labels inside of the garments, like, that tell the story about the item. The hang tags, they will be, yeah, a little bit different. But Uh-huh.

Yeah. What what other things?

Anyway, I’m just gonna ask if anything comes to mind. I’m so curious about it.

Yeah. Yeah. No. That there’s always something, but yeah.

I’ll I’ll brainstorm.

Sorry. I’ll brainstorm a little more.

Yeah. Moving on to the drama theory component. So the dramatic arc. So this is a classical, yeah, picture that you would find in drama textbooks.

We’re not going word for word here, so it’s just meant to inspire us and see where we can go. But it’s, yeah. It it’s this classic arc where you start with the exhibition, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution. So the exhibition is all about laying the scene, doing the groundwork.

So you talk about the the location, the time, the mood, the characters, the relation, often also the hint of, like, a conflict or something that could turn into one. So it’s it’s a full on introduction into the brand world. Well, not the brand, the story world here. And then something happens that makes things more tense.

This is called the rising action if, like, you read Shakespeare or, like, know Hamlet. You know, that that moment when he realizes that, Claudius really killed his father, so things get tense and something is gonna happen.

And then you get to the climax, the the moment of, like, maximum tension where the conflict or the action peaks.

There’s no going back from here and then things start to fall.

So you have the falling action things that unfold in a manner that point to the final resolution. It it can’t go anywhere else. And then you have the actual resolution where things get wrapped up. The end, the grand finale, often dramatic, but luckily, in copywriting, it is not or not always.

So here we move on to the story selling arc, which is inspired by the former, but takes things, in a much lighter, more positive way, but also a very strategic way, which is important for for luxury copywriting.

So you see a couple of differences here.

The most notable, but one being the teaser as a start. So the teaser instead of the exhibition, you have the teaser. The teaser is the glimpse to what’s yet to come. It catches the interest, the curiosity.

It’s where you wanna show them something, and, yeah, start maintaining the the engagement.

Then from here, you come on to launch. So the launch is is really the main the main action. The launch is similar to the x x, position in the in the dramatic arc where everything gets laid out, the who, the what, the where, the why, and it’s arguably the most important communication, of a campaign.

So it requires the right words to underpin it. And then from here, you get onto the sustain phase. So the sustain phase is often flat, sometimes alongside with teasers as well. So but, yeah, I think that’s a sustain phase especially. Sustain is meant to maintain interest as the word suggests, especially if a campaign is played out over several weeks, if not months.

So you need to have something that is here to make people still be interested and engaged in your story.

And to wrap up, you have the recall at the end.

It’s something it can be something that reinforces the campaign into the reader’s minds or, yeah, just summarizes the main the main points of the campaign. And all of these will be played out differently depending on your campaign. So it can be that you forgot the teaser and you have just launch, sustain, recall, or you follow you follow just teaser, launch, and sustain. But, ideally, you would have that whole arc, so you have the maximum possibility of of engagement.

The teaser as alluded to is vague and intriguing. It’s here to whet the appetite for more. So language that’s often used is a first look, a first glimpse, very elegant, like the hint of something, coming soon, incoming, something, yeah, that wants you that that is here to make you want to learn more.

Examples for this, are here from Laura Piana, Pucci, and Romita Wilde.

So for the social example here, the first one, a glimpse of the fallwinter twenty twenty five, twenty six campaign. You see here the main work done is made in is in the in the first line, the introductory line, and then the rest is very is very top line, but it has enough to make you want to learn more about it.

The second example, Pucci, different tone, much more oomph.

Get ready to discover the fun the Pucci fanfare campaign coming soon, but also, a really good example of how to translate that into language. And then the last example is one for an email campaign from, a luxury beauty brand. Something big is coming two years in the making, launching. So you see it’s about planting that seed of interest that will ensure that people will watch out for more or come back for more.

In in maybe not so luxurious communication too, we often see, say stay tuned or, like, look out for more in a more, explicit way, but these are ways of making it more elevated.

Then you come onto the launch. So it’s all about setting the mood and the scene, a very grand opening. So you have language like presenting, unveiling, launching, introducing, unfolding, all these, like, very visual words that that make you see something, in front of your like, in the eye of your mind.

Like, something is really unfolding there, unraveling.

So examples here, again, from Laura Piana. The first one is their Herods of Wonder workshop.

The second one from the command that just launched today for winter. You see it’s all about it’s it’s very different campaigns, but it’s all about laying the scene with all the details of the campaign in a very grand manner.

And then the example here on Farfetch, presenting the Farfetch gift guide. So this is from a series of, from from their gifting series from a couple of years ago, actually. But I think it’s a good example of how to set, the right tone for for a campaign like this. This one did not have a teaser or anything because it doesn’t make sense, but it’s about making the first, gift communication the one that’s most impactful. I’ve just, copied over an excerpt of the campaign here. So the rest was all, about introduction to the the various categories, but it’s about giving the full picture of the campaign in the launch.

Then moving on to sustain. So this can be two ways. It can be either be it it can either be very benefit driven or driven by narrative that will heavily depend also on on the content, the story of the actual campaign. So it could be a deep dive into a product feature.

It could be an additional chapter in a campaign or just a focus, something that makes people want to learn more still at this stage because they’ve already, like, received quite a bit of communication.

So to translate that into examples.

Yeah. Here. Actually, let’s start with the Farfetch one. This is a a really good example of, like, a sustain element.

The one that I’ve shown you before was the launch and here the launch, setting the scene. And here, you have a focus point on one category, small small accents, small presents, bags, sneakers, jewels. It’s the excerpts that count. Scroll down to meet.

And then the other example here, Emma’s, effortless yet complex, discovered the second chapter of the women’s for winter twenty five campaign.

So this is created as part of a, like, a big story that’s divided up in chapters and is about telling now the next, the story of the next chapter.

And then finally, we come to recall.

So recall is about impregnating that it can be the the whole I the whole campaign into the reader’s mind. It can be either as a retrospective, so a wrap up or a final although I don’t like to think of it as a final, a final reason to believe.

So, again, this can be very product focused or just like a retrospective of the full campaign.

So a few examples here, from Laura Piana.

The first one, vast landscapes of volcanic terrain and earthy textures. The resort twenty twenty five collection culminates with a dramatic twist.

So, again, you see there’s nothing for this one here, there’s nothing commercial or so about it. The picture is very moody, and it’s just to to bring this campaign to a close.

And then the second one, a welcoming place where new connections are forged and goodbyes are hushed.

This, I think, is an interesting one for the end to yeah. The closing chapter to a campaign because it’s ambiguous, and it’s about opening doors and closing a door. So welcomes and goodbyes, but it’s also about, yeah, just planting that that idea into the reader’s mind and keeping keeping it open so they they naturally will be looking out for more. It it it’s a way to nurture brand love beyond the frame of the campaign.

So to recap, why why is this storytelling arc useful?

What is the benefit? So I think the most important one, as I’ve already hinted at, is to nurture interest, not only for the campaign, not only for one particular element of it, but throughout the whole of the campaign, which, I think is difficult to achieve with the amount of information that we receive day to day, to make readers feel engaged, maximize their engagement span throughout the entire campaign.

And then, ultimately, also and I think this is one of the most important points, actually, to marry storytelling with sales, sale priorities in a way that is very refined, sophisticated, and where it just makes sense. So it could be that well, the sustained phase, for example, of a campaign is so well suited for pulling out the different, yeah, features and such of, like, products if you wanna, like if it if it’s a product driven campaign. So you could go into detail on, I don’t know, on the craftsmanship and, like, the fibers of this very beautiful coat, you could tell people more about, the ingredients that went into, the making of this beauty product. So things like these. And it’s about seeing what makes, yeah, sense in a very strategic way.

Yeah. I think I think that’s the elegance of luxury copywriting, weaving in these commercial, priorities, the commercial language, in a way that makes sense and that feels intuitive. Because people want to they want to learn more. They want to know about these products. They, like, they pay thousands for them.

So you you just need to provide that information at the right, point.

And that leads me to questions.

Awesome. Thank you, Jenny.

Wicked. So it’s it’s such an interesting, difference from the sort of copy that a lot of us write as conversion copywriters where there’s just it just works so differently.

But it is it’s interesting to see the that arc, and then see how it comes to life because then I’m you know, there are things that you do that are just different from what Mhmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Do.

So very cool.

This is the part of the call where if you have questions, please put up your hand as Caitlin and Abby just did. We’ll go in that order. As always, please start with a win.

So that’s how you get to ask a question. So whatever your win is of the week, of the month, of the year, whatever is feeling great right now, share it.

Caitlin, let’s start with you.

Who?

Go ahead. Hello.

Hi. Hello.

Okay. Awen, I started working with my brother. He’s had an online business for, like, fifteen years.

Wow.

So I’m doing some optimization stuff, and I’ve been wanting to get my hands on his business for a very long time. So, so that’s fun. So that’s my win. And so my question is, like, yes. I’m very much from the camp that Joe just explained. Like, I feel like I’m sitting in a brand new class at a brand new thing.

Yeah. But it was interesting too because, like, a lot of the stuff you highlighted, I’m like, oh, I’ve seen that, like, whether it was in an Instagram ad or an email or somewhere.

So so is it I’m just gonna try to, like, recap a little bit of, like, the approach of a campaign like this. Are the ingredients almost, like, for a a full campaign as you’re approaching it, you’re kind of thinking, in what way can I set, like, a vibe that feels luxury, that draws people in, and maybe that’s how you create some of the emails or some of the posts?

And then, like, other things are, like, you’re kinda picking out cool features of the product and then diving deep.

And I don’t know. That’s kinda what I’m gathering. So is that, like, accurate so far? Obviously, I’m missing a ton of things. Okay.

So that’s, like, the first half of the question. And then are you always driving them to the same page or, like, one product of the collection?

Like, where are people going to next and and, like, have you, like, intrigue them in these Yeah. Ways?

Yeah.

That’s that’s two brilliant questions.

So the first to answer the first one, it’s, so some of the works that I do with some of my clients, it’s done in close collaboration with marketing. So these are the things that I think if in this day and age somebody would want to, yeah, go out as a freelance luxury copywriter and really find a point of difference where we have AI and all of this and some, yeah, luxury brands even interested in this. I think it’s this strategic part that is absolutely crucial because it will make you stand out, and it will make you be there with a clear vision. You know? You you are you you know why you’re doing this. You’re not just, like, blindly writing to a brief, oh, this is the loan, so I need to use, like, some sort of presentation, ta da da, language. You’re here to help drive the campaign.

So does this answer your question?

Yeah. I think a little a little bit. I think just because this is so new for me, like, there’s a lot of blanks that probably need to be filled in for me. But, yeah, I guess I guess more so the question is, like, the pieces of a campaign because over like, I write for courses.

So, like, the pieces are okay. Cart open. Here’s the offer. And then we go into, like, handling objections.

Then we go into, like, emails that coach the decision for, like, indecisiveness.

So I’m trying to figure out what the translation is into, like, a product campaign of, like yeah. What that recipe looks like.

Yeah. Yeah. I think with that structure, depending on like, if you’re launching a new course or so, you you can you still have these same moments. Right? You have teaser moment. You have launch.

And then depending on how it pans out and how long the course is and all of that, you can weave in the other ones as well.

So it’s it’s I I would say it’s heavily, like, dependent on on the individual, factors of the campaign, But it’s it’s something that can be applied, I would say, universally across campaigns. Like, if people have the budget, the stage to make the product or the story really, like, the focus.

Yeah. Because this allows you to do that.

It does that.

No. It does. Yeah.

How long well, oh, I see a bunch of hands up, so I’m gonna zip it. Thank you. And someone else can go.

Awesome, Caitlin. Thanks, Caitlin. Abby, what’s your win?

I did post this in the Slack channel, but I I posted my first YouTube video, and I’m so proud because I’ve been putting it off so hard.

So, yeah, that’s my win.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much for the presentation. I also have more than one question, so I’ll ask one now and hopefully can go around again.

I wonder if you had any kind of thoughts or advice on, like, how to know if you’re telling the right story Mhmm. In in a campaign.

Okay.

So how it usually works with the sort of brands that I work with is we start at the very beginning of the journey, we start with an idea, and that idea will set the mood for everything. So, like, depending on where you’re coming in as a copywriter, if you come in from the very get go, like, concepting, thinking about what do I want to say, you’ll have like, you you’d be convinced from the very get go that this is the right story to tell. Whereas, if you’re coming in midway or so, you’re like, oh, but this is like this feels odd or, you know, you’re coming with a more biased mind. But if you this is a yeah. It’s a tricky question, but it’s also such an easy question because it’s all about the brand and the audience.

It’s about what what what about this brand that we want to say with this campaign in this particular moment? Like, if it’s backed up by by, like, a special shoots, like, what is the inspiration?

What’s does this tie back into heritage?

Does it, yeah, highlight something that’s that’s very typical of this brand. You know, it’s something that’s meant to transport the brand into not necessarily a new chapter, although with, like, large complaints, it can, but, like, it propels it forward.

Yeah. I think that would be my answer. Does this help?

Kinda. Yeah. I’ll need to run it over.

So Because it it at the end of the day, who who is there to make the decision about the story?

Sometimes so many people are, involved in it that in discussion, it just feels right. It feels you see, you nod and you’re like, oh, no. This this, like, feels so Gucci. This feels so poochy. Like, you know?

And it is also something that is there is no right or wrong at the end of the day.

It it’s about yeah.

I think finding that balance between what what what is your brand here to say, but then also the audience. What what why are they coming back to you? What what are they here to know, to where, why are they here, basically?

Mhmm.

Yeah. I know. That’s great. I guess I was wondering, like, is it is it when it just feels right?

Because that’s kind of my Yeah.

I think with with so many things in copywriting, like, there’s this this thing called the editorial instinct and, it it can mean everything and nothing, but I I I would go by that. Because if you compare your editorial instinct to the instinct of a marketeer or, like, somebody from a more, like, commercial background, things will start looking differently and then you’ll know, oh, no. This like, my instinct is is not the right one, but I think this is the one we should go by.

It it will feel right. And the more experience you get as well, the more exposure you have to different ways of thinking and, like, crafting ideas, which I think is ultimately what it’s about. Like, crafting ideas where, like, audience is here and brand is here and somewhere in the middle it meets.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Thank you, Jenny.

Thank you. Sabine, what’s your win and then your question, please?

Okay. So bearing in mind that I only joined last week, my first win is I’ve started writing my new job description, you know, before using my team as leverage and after using my team as leverage.

So it’s a first draft.

It will no no doubt will, transform. But, yeah, it’s good. It feels really good.

Jenny, I loved your presentation. I think, I recognize a lot of it, from my work with more kind of premium but not luxury brands. Yes. And that’s also what I wanted to ask you about. Yeah.

Where do you see the difference between premium and luxury?

Like, is there a difference in your, experience? And then maybe also with a view to collaborations, which Yeah. Quite quite a lot to make luxury brands more accessible.

Yeah.

How would you deal with that?

Because does the premium brand then upgrade their language under campaign treatment? Does the luxury brand downgrade it? Do both brands handle it the way they always do? Like, how would you approach that?

That’s a that’s a really interesting question.

So no. They would not sort of level out. I think for what what really makes a luxury brand is, like, the details.

So, like, the details in painstakingly, like, nuanced detail. Like, it’s incredible. It’s incredible.

They think about everything, like, from from, like, what what could even even, like, in their internal speak, they live the language of the brand. So it’s this deeply ingrained. So it’s about yeah. I think from a best copy perspective, it’s about following what what has worked for them for their brand, not being scared to, like, not follow the masses, but, like, crafting their own brand in a in an elevated way, but also in a way that does not feel aloof.

So it’s not about using all the fancy words, although with these sort of brands, there is I think because they are often also so culturally rooted, there is definitely a playground for that. And I think yeah. I think it’s justified.

But yeah. It’s about at the end of the day, it’s about making luxury feel more human and bringing that feeling, you know, where you just, like, go into the shop and say hi to that person there. You wanna replicate that person. They they it’s all in this digital world.

It it feels all, like, abstract, but at the end of the day, they’re talking to you But at least that’s what they’re trying to do. So, like yeah. I mean, MS, for example, they they use emojis on on their social. Like, others use, like, contractions and so on.

So it it’s about finding what what works for your brand to maintain their brand identity and, like, their status, but weaving these subtle, like not downgrades, but, like, sounding more familiar into the brand world.

And then for premium brands, to elevate them, I think they need to, yeah, start paying attention to the details, like, doing things properly, like, following following best practices. Because at the moment, probably, they might, yeah, they might be doing things wrong or not well enough. They might be sending, I don’t know, too many emails here and then do an calibrated campaign launch there, or there might be a grammar slip somewhere, because the person that signed off or or it hasn’t been signed off, like, the marketeer, like, just wrote the campaign, like, you know?

I think it it’s not universally true, but in my experience, it’s all about the details that that distinguishes, yeah, the higher level from the more mid mid level brands.

Does this answer your question?

Yes. It also makes it sound like the price tag is not the most important factor. It’s more about attitude rather than whether it’s five hundred pounds or five thousand pounds for an item.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it’s about, making a person feel that they’re belonging to something at the end of the day. Like, making them part of, like, again, it’s like it’s this exclusivity versus, like, we versus you, but in in a in an I wanna say a more human and engaging way. So it it’s definitely very complex.

But yeah. No. The price tag I think also psychological studies and so have been done where if you present a product with a higher price tag to a person and a product with a lower price tag to a person, but, actually, these two products, made of the exact same material, which one would you think would be more luxurious?

The more expensive one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s it’s it’s psychological heavily rooted in psychological bias. Awesome.

Okay. Okay. Cool.

Roxanna’s up next, but if you did have a second question for Jenny, feel free to put up your hand, and we’ll go through. Again, we still got some time. Roxanna, let’s start with your win.

So a win is something that depends only on me. Right? It’s not something that happened, or is it both?

It’s a thing you’re celebrating in life.

Okay. Yeah. So I’m celebrating that yesterday morning, my client woke up and said we haven’t worked in a while together. And she said that she was having a really cool morning, and she wanted me to be part of it. Oh.

So Nice. Yeah.

And then she shared with me her greatest achievements in the meantime, and then I pitched something.

And it was all that I was being sick in bed. So, you know Okay.

Good one.

Yeah. It’s alright. So, Jenny, I have a lot of questions, but just, you know, feel free to cherry pick. Okay? Whatever. So first of all, I’m curious about the length of the campaign because I think I heard you say that the sustained phase could last months, but maybe I was wrong.

Then I’m also curious looking at the posts that some have a certain length, and I wonder if this is something that you came up with with the brand. Is this something that you decided on your own? You know, because, we’re so, trained to look at, KPIs and numbers and what works. So I was wondering if you can share a bit of those in your work.

And then I was also curious how you get leads. You know? I mean, if you ever pitch yourself, they’re, they just happen to you, you know, I mean, just a bit of more substance there.

I’m just writing down, length of campaign and okay. So for the length of campaign, it really depends on well, if it’s like a large scale campaign, it can pan out over, like, one to two months. So that includes the the recall the sustained phase, but it’s interspersed by other activities, by other campaigns.

So, like, each phase is interspersed by, say, like, a BAU campaign or something that yeah. Just something else that happens that is of interest, like a small chapter in in the, yeah, in the brand, world.

For what was your first question again? Sorry. I’m asking.

So the first question was the length of the campaign. I think I think one or two months.

I wonder what the BAU campaign is because I’m not Ah, business as usual.

Like, something that they would, like, usually push. Like, it it can be very, like, trend or topic driven, but something that falls in a in a normal calendar.

Okay. And and then the second was about the length of the post.

Okay. So the length of the post, that will heavily depend on each client.

You’ll also see some of the examples I pulled out. Some are very short. Others are quite lengthy, which again, like, copy I think it it questions some of the the assumptions we have about copy. Oh, it should only be short. Oh, it should only be long. Ultimately, the question is what works for the brand?

So I think you should be guided for that. Like, do do people really wanna know more about the story behind it? Like, then we have the stage to tell that story.

And for your last question on leads, I actively pitch.

I use LinkedIn a lot, which has worked for me.

A website helps massively. I saw, yeah, massive conversions after setting it up.

And, yeah, I called Pitch.

So Oh, I wanna ask A lot of, unresponded answers, but amongst them, a few have yielded incredible results.

Please say more, if you care to. You know?

So well, I think the best way is to create a very tailored pitch.

Even now, like, because I’m so busy, I don’t have time to do that many as many as I would like. But it’s about creating a tailored pitch that speaks it it it can go two ways. It can go in in one way. Hey.

Hi. Ta da da. I’m I’m a freelance copywriter, doing this and that. I’ve worked with this and that person.

I would love to support you on this and that project. So being very specific helps, pulling out highlights on what you’ve worked on helps as well.

The second one would be identifying a problem.

So you see that their newsletters are not optimized. You see that, on social, like, they have weird formatting.

You see that, a campaign just doesn’t make sense. On on web, it says one thing. On newsletter’s another. And social, like, is not really there. You know, like, about critiquing, but in an empathetic way.

So they know that you’re coming with a good heart and, like, a willingness to help.

Awesome. Thank you. Sabine, you’re back. And because we’ve already heard a win, you don’t have to share it.

Thank you.

Yeah. Cool. So, Jenny, I don’t know how familiar you are with CopyHackers and CopySchool and all of those things, but I assume you kinda know that we often work very performance driven. Like, we wanna know how things are performing. There’s a lot of kind of focus on ecommerce or SaaS and other industries that are easy to measure for a lot of people, I guess, having been here for a week.

But I wonder in your work, you know, you’ve talked about campaigns. How do the more the more easily measured things kind of factor into it? Like, when you write an email campaign and you send people to an ecommerce solution, how does the PDP become part of the campaign, or is the PDP always the same, product detail page, PDP? Mhmm.

Is that something that you even work on, or is it typically something that your clients have a separate team for?

And then how does that work?

So I work on like, for some clients, I do, like, all of their copy.

So everything they they put out, that that would be things that have not been written by me because I only started, like, from working with them at, like, at one point in time. And, like, before that, there was already copy.

But, yeah, I think it’s about, depending on the client, it’s about seeing where you have influence and leveraging that area.

Very sadly for me, lots of, like, the metrics are not available to me, because of, yeah, the very high stakes, especially working with very high luxury brands. So I wish I would have more insights because then that would also yeah. That would help in other ways. I think if you put a number to something, it would yeah.

You know it.

So that’s one of the downsides.

But, yeah, the other part, it really depends on where you’re sitting.

Like, linking that whole that that could be a whole workshop on itself if it’s for a campaign like this. So some brands, they will link to, like, the the the product page for the specific campaign that’s been curated, and then also link to, like, the editorial page. So you have inspiration and product on one page.

Others will link to, like, the runway recap.

So you have it it it really depends on, like, the purpose and the send, I would say. So I can’t generalize, but it’s about what makes sense for this. And it sometimes it’s just like it is common sense because people try and overcomplicate it, but it’s just like, what does the what does the person want to know next? Like, so what?

You you’ve told them this. So what? Like, here’s here’s the visuals. Here’s, like, the story.

Here’s the product. You know?

Cool.

Abby?

Cool. Yeah. So I guess I’m, like, curious to hear more about how you package your services.

Mhmm.

If you wouldn’t mind sharing.

Yeah. So packaging, I think this is one of the possibly the downsize, possibly not, of luxury copywriting, but it’s very tailored.

It’s it’s a very curated world. So everything is, like, personalized and, you know, cherries on the top. So this is also, yeah, how my how my service are marketed and and packaged up. So some as I mentioned, I will I will write all of their communication. They have a fixed, there’s a fixed fee attached to that, a monthly retainer.

Others, I charge per project. So let’s say, there’s, like, one campaign with, like, a three sixty campaign that will have its fee with, like, yeah, the specifics, like, so and so many reworks or feedback loops. So So you have everything under control. I think that’s important to to, like, set your own terms.

Other clients, I charge by, touchpoint. So social or a social post or newsletter or a piece of web copy.

So they have my price list, and then, yeah, they say they want this and this and that this month.

And then, yeah, that that’s it, basically. So it’s not the most effective way, I think, for a freelancer because, like, there’s so much thought also that goes into, like, oh, yeah. How like, new client, new a new list possibly of rates because demands will vary, but it has worked, and helped me work with, like, these sort of top tier brands.

Cool. Thank you.

Okay. Roxanna.

So I was just I’m looking at your website. I love a lot of things there. So because I was like, oh my god. She said the website converts great. I wanna see why. So, I was curious about, whether you get to pick the visuals.

Basically, a bit more about how you’re briefed. So I have one client that is I mean, they’re obviously not a luxury brand, but they have some luxury products in their portfolio. Yeah. So and I’m always curious whether they brief you, they choose the visual, you have a choice, do you get to establish a calendar, do you not I mean and when you pitch, do you pitch the agency, do you pitch the client, how does that actually, so two things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So for your images question, yeah, some well, a lot, if not all of these very large, luxury brands, they have a dedicated content team. So the content team will take care of all of that, which is fun, but it’s also not fun because sometimes you see something and it it just doesn’t go very well in terms of, like, the story flow. And then you’re thinking, why do I not have as much influence and sway Because this, I would really love to see differently, presented.

Other teams, smaller, more like boutique like premium brands, there’s lots of opportunity to get involved in, like, image selection as well, which is, super fun. But, yeah, unfortunately, the higher up you go, the more calibrated and controlled things get.

And then for your second question that was on remind me.

Oh, when you pitch, do you pitch the agency? Do you pitch the client?

Or do you No.

I would always pitch the client directly, because that means you can establish a like, you remove any third parties because that’s always awkward, and they’re gonna take a percentage for themselves.

And you get to, yeah, really establish a relationship with with the actual people, working there.

So yeah. And this it it can work with with cold pitching. You just, like it takes a lot of effort.

It takes a lot of, like, pitches that, like, will never be answered or looked at.

But out of the, I don’t know, two hundred or so, you might get ten replies and then, I don’t know, one or two clients might emerge from it. And that’s that’s a huge win in that case.

Mhmm. But since you’ve you’ve made I mean, if you have all these numbers, which is great, you probably have a process around the call pitching of it. Right?

Yeah. Yep. Mhmm.

Yeah. It’s very it’s very structured. So I I work two weekly targets. I have an assistant as well that helps with this. So some pitches, a number of these are are generic in nature. So it’s just it’s mainly for prospects where I don’t really have something that I could critique that well or, like, well, I don’t see very, very high conversion possibility, but just, like, to touch base with them. You know?

And historically also, well, people will remember you.

Some people will remember you. One of my most long standing clients, I reached out to them in, November twenty twenty four.

And there were it’s a different company, so I pitched them for that company as well. And then, you know, people say, oh, I’ll keep you in mind. And some mean it, but others don’t. But she meant it. And then three months later, she got in touch with another opportunity that, yeah, has yielded so so many results. So it’s about nurturing nurturing connections, I think, more than anything else, especially in luxury.

Okay. Thank you. I have more questions, but I’m gonna wait after Abby asks hers.

Amazing. Okay. Abby, you’re up.

Yeah. I feel really greedy asking three.

Yeah. So I hope you don’t mind me asking this. It’s just we because we’ve been having a lot of conversations about, AI and, like, the impact that it’s having. I would kind of think with luxury brands, they’re they’re gonna kind of continue to appreciate, like, the value of having that person there. I just wondered if, yeah, if you could share about kind of Yeah. Bossing and how you’re feeling.

Yeah. Yeah. So some some of my clients, they do bring in AI, but then I look at the copy and I’m like, no. It doesn’t work.

There’s nothing that works. I mean, it it can work to a certain extent, but where the question is really, oh, it’s not just about pretty words on the page. It’s about crafting a story around this certain vision that we have, and then, like, feedback loops. I don’t know.

Some clients because it they’re so high level. You have, like, six, seven, eight, nine feedback loops. And sometimes it’s just a little word or so. Others, it’s about the mood, or building on previous feedback, previous, previously established points.

So it’s it’s a very crafted process that I think AI could not replicate and then craft it not in the sense of, like, ultra polished, although the the copy is that. But I think AI is almost like it feels too polished to, like, out of soul possibly. You know? I also think from a, just a humanist perspective, what is the value in your brand story if you just, like, got it cheap?

People pay for the price, and I think luxury brands do too, with their words.

Yeah. And I think I think that’s where you are as I was asking because I I completely agree with everything you said. I was just wondering if, like, yeah, because it’s luxury Yeah.

There’s that feeling of, yeah, they want the luxury kind of brand copywriting experience.

Thank you.

Okay. Any last questions? Roxanna is back.

I mean, I can go on for a long time.

We’ve got a couple minutes.

So you I mean, I can I can also stop?

We’ll wrap up with this one. It’s perfect.

So two questions because I have a third one, but I’m gonna text you. Okay?

So because I I think I heard you say how you wish you had more feedback from the brand. And for instance, I also write for UNICEF. Right? And I didn’t get more data from them, but the truth is I don’t.

And just the way the organization is set up, and I do my very best, etcetera. You understand the point. So I am wondering, ultimately, how do you feel that you are being evaluated? Is it just their reaction that they think they like your work?

What KPIs do you have to meet? That would be question number one. Question number two, looking at your website, there’s this incredible portfolio of brands. But if someone was to, consider fashion, for instance, or luxury, not right now and, I mean, that’s someone being a friend.

So, and I I’ve never worked for any of the Chanel’s of the world, but, hey, why not? Because, you know, how would you consider I mean, what would you say other than just showing work? You know? Mhmm. And third, I will email because I know it’s going to kill me or something.

I’ll I’ll try to be brief. So for the second part, I think it’s all about your positioning.

You can break into, like, this world, but it’s all about how you position yourself. And sometimes well, a website is there to to sell your words, tell your story. So you can replicate that just in the storytelling that you use there.

So it’s it’s not showing through the brands that you’ve worked with, but it’s showing by doing it, basically.

And if it’s the right fit, it will convert.

For the KPIs, Yeah. And, unfortunately, not much data, but I think it’s yeah.

It’s the fact that I’ve continued to work with the clients, like, that they’ve they’ve been wanting me. They’ve been wanting me for longer. Like, contracts get renewed one month, three months, twelve months. You know?

Oh, can you help on this additional project?

They just see that you deliver on time, that you, are trustworthy, that you are responsive to feedback. It doesn’t it doesn’t take a lot, but it takes something which sometimes most people may not all exhibit or, like, replies are late or, yeah, grammar slips, you know, things like these. Even in, like, the the client communication. So it’s about maintaining well, echoing their language, back to them So you’re part of it.

But, yeah, it it mostly translates through client, contract renewals.

Sometimes they will give me a lovely feedback, and I’m like, yes.

And that’s that’s a win moment. But, yeah, ultimately, feedback does not lead to contract renewals because they need to show, oh, yeah. Like, she’s been doing brilliant work and, like, it’s driven our campaign forward. So that’s why we need additional budget, like, for the next quarter or so. You know? It’s yeah.

Thank you. Thank you, Jenny. I feel like I’ve taken the most advantage of all bumps just as much as I could.

You’re in competition with Abby.

Just kidding.

Jenny, thank you for coming in and sharing with us and answering these questions today as well.

Where can people find you? LinkedIn? Is Instagram better? Where is the best place to follow-up with you or just follow you?

It’s it’s LinkedIn.

I’m building out exciting things, including an agency also in this space. So keep your eyes peeled.

Yes. And, yeah, do do feel free to, like, yeah, interact, engage with me.

Very happy to always share more.

Okay.

Fantastic. Again, thank you so much, and on behalf of everybody who’s going to watch the replay as well and couldn’t ask you a question, too bad for them. But thank you again, and thanks everyone. We’ll see you on Monday. Have a good one. Thanks, Jenny.

Thanks, y’all. Bye. Thanks, Jenny.