Tag: june 2025
Conversational Copywriting for Social
Conversational Copywriting for Social
Transcript
This is amazing, Dustin.
I know you have a lot that you wanna share with us today.
Just wanna introduce Dustin to the room.
He is a senior copywriter, I believe, is the title over at ManyChat.
We were chatting a bit on LinkedIn, and then I started looking more into what he does and was like, cool. You should come teach.
And he was down for it, which is amazing. So today, of the many things that Dustin could be sharing with us, he’s gonna talk with us particularly about, said like a Canadian, about, conversational how what’s the title for it, Dustin?
It is conversational copywriting for social.
That’s right.
Yes. That’s right. Good. Perfect. So we’re gonna hear a lot there. Some really cool stuff.
Twenty minutes ish of training. There’ll be some practice, some exercises, some things to think through, and then, of course, any questions that y’all would like answered. And those are typically Dustin, I’ve warned you. Sometimes those questions are directly related to the subject you just taught on.
Other times, it’s more about, like, your career, how you got there, how do you get, copy approved with a lot of different people in an organization, how do you get buy in for new ideas, where do ideas come from, all of those kinds of things could come up.
But we have about sixty minutes, fifty five minutes left. So, Dustin, I’m gonna let you take it from here.
Sure. Yeah. I’ll just say to just piggyback on top of what you just said.
You know, I talked to Joanne and Sarah both. I want this to be a very conversational session. I feel like the best way for people to learn and and really get excited about this is to feel like they’re leading it. So whatever questions you have pertaining to this lesson or pertaining to anything, I’ve been doing this for fifteen years.
I’ve done almost every industry. I’ve done direct response, done content, done copy. So been around the block a few times. So, yeah, I hope I can answer all those questions, when we’re done with this.
So I’ll go ahead and open this up, and I guess I will need to share my screen.
And while that’s loading up, for those who are looking for it, Sarah chatted over the link to the work.
Does everything look good on y’all’s end?
Perfect.
Amazing. Okay. So, yeah, like I mentioned, today, we’re gonna talk a little bit about conversational copywriting for social.
And I guess the first thing to get out of the way is this misconception, especially when we’re doing anything on social, whether it’s a LinkedIn post or you’re writing a video script or being in a video script, whatever it is, is write like you talk. That is not what conversational copywriting means. Conversational copywriting is writing in such a way that you are sparking conversation. You’re engaging with people.
You’re making people feel like they are a part of what you’re saying. You know? Are there landing pages, product product descriptions, mini chat? We do automation.
So, automation flows like that, making people feel like they’re a part of something instead of being talked at.
So one important distinction there. Yeah. Let’s go ahead and jump in. So, yeah, like I mentioned here, a conversation copy is, right, starts conversations, advice engagement, engagement, and doesn’t just inform people.
So, like, a big difference between copywriting really and content writing as I see it is content writing is a lot more informing. Copywriting does a lot more selling, engaging, describing, aspirational type stuff. So conversational copy is really just taking that to the next level and really saying, we don’t want to just act like we’re having conversations. We actually wanna talk to you.
So, yeah, the difference is kind of broadcasting. Here are five tips for better social media. We’re just gonna ingest that. We’re not gonna interact with it.
Right? Conversational, everyone wonder why some posts get tons of comments while others get crickets. So immediately, they’re like, yeah. I have thought about that.
So it feels like you’re kicking off a conversation. Right? Not necessarily how I’d probably say that, but it it starts that conversation. Why this matters?
Conversational marketing campaigns have eighty three percent open rate versus twenty one for traditional campaigns, and I think that we’ll see a kind of a bell curve happen with this as AI becomes more popular and as AI gets better at writing like a person.
And it’ll be like this inverse bell curve to people’s trust. So people’s trust will rise as it gets better at that, and they won’t be able to tell the difference. And then they’ll realize, oh my gosh. This has been a AI all along, and we’ll begin to fall off.
So there’s this weird, weird wave we’re riding that we just have to write out because I do think that personal conversations and really having those those connections, those interactions are what are gonna is what is gonna separate the good brands or strong brands from the ones that may have a good product but just kinda are forgotten, which is the worst thing that can happen if you’re a copywriter.
Why it matters even more on social, people consume social media feeds in one and a half one point seven seconds. It’s absurd how quickly people will just scan through. So if they don’t feel like they are immediately engaged by you, if you’re not doing something to immediately speak to them, make them feel like they’re the heart of the conversation, like they’re the center of the conversation or, like, marketing trope kind of overused, but they’re the hero.
They’re not. Right?
Unless you just have a product that is up for them and your placement’s great, which is really, really good if you have, you know, good, performance marketers and know how to get exactly the right message in front of the right people, but sometimes you can’t do that in conversational copywriting is a way to bridge that gap. Save your performance creatives save your performance team some money and help your stuff get seen because it’s just more easy to engage with. It’s more pleasant, and it’s more real for people.
Conversational marketing campaigns achieve eighty eighty three percent open rate compared to only one percent traditional campaigns.
It doesn’t just get seen. It gets responded to. So you think about if you’ve ever done an email campaign, a blast, whatever, a flow, and you don’t expect it, but someone replies to you, you know, like, hey. Like, blah blah blah.
I really like this email. You said something I really liked, or it’s a newsletter or something like that. Like, you are, in that regard, absolutely, like, acing your conversational style because you’re unintentionally triggering something or intentionally in that person that made them respond to an email they may not have. Like, sometimes I get, like, product your product is shipped emails, whatever, from someone I like, and they have a great, you know, follow-up sequence.
And I’ll rock them back and be like, oh my god. Like, that was so great, and have a conversation with them. So it’s cool. Like, those are little touch spots that are so, so important for us as marketing gets more, like, flooded with AI and not real creative.
So a little checklist on what isn’t conversational copy. It’s not just writing how you talk. That’s fun, and it is super great on social media platforms as long as you’re really, really informed on your audience, you know who they are, and you can pass. Like, you don’t nobody wants to be the how do you kids guy with the skateboard. Right? Like, don’t be that guy.
Being overly casual, unprofessional, same thing. It’s not about using jargon that’s off the beaten path or cussing or, you know, using asterisks or anything like that. Although, I will say that parenthetical phrases have become a real signal for, oh, my inner thoughts, and so it can be more conversational.
But AI started to pick up on that too. And broadcasting announcements. This is, like, a huge, huge thing. So you have a banner on a website or an email you send out. There’s multiple ways you can do this.
One is thinking of it as you just standing up on your soapbox, shouting to a room full of people, hey. Like, we have this great new sale going on. Get forty percent off. Bye.
You know? Or it’s going to your friend or texting your friend and say, oh my god. Did you see JCPenney? Okay.
Yeah. I didn’t show you my age. But did you see JCPenney? He’s having a fifty percent off, so that’s really cool.
We should check it out. You know?
That’s the, like, two different kinds of ways of engaging with people. It’s like just blasting out information and you’re talking with someone.
So some examples that I like to use as far as, like, keeping things conversational and, like, how I will idea on these is question hooks, which is one we’ve already seen in what is and what is the copy. Convers conversation copywriting is ever written, social media caption and immediately wanting to delete your entire account. Like, why it works is because you’re asking a question that’s one hundred percent relatable to your audience and something that you’ve probably thought. So you can assume as a creative is gonna think that too.
Unfinished story. I was three coffees deep when I realized our chatbot was getting more engagement than our social team. So I love and I talked with Joanna and Sarah about this. I love to use a technique where I think about, you know, if I’m writing a hero, I think about it’s an event.
Like, whatever is happening here is the event. And I don’t want to talk to people at the beginning of an event because it’s it’s really hard to, like, create all the if if everything you need, like, the FOMO or, you know, going after their the benefits, the features, whatever it is. And I don’t wanna be at the end of the event because we’ve lost the chance to build up that excitement. We’ve skipped the climax and gone right to, like, the ending.
Like, that sucks. Like, I want the good stuff. So I like to try and drop myself into the middle of that conversation and bring my audience into the middle of that conversation, and that makes it feel like, you know, you walk into a room and someone’s having a great conversation, and you’re like, oh my god. I love this.
And you start listening. You wanna know more, and you start asking questions, and I feel like that has more effect. Like, I want people to especially in heroes and headlines and, headlines on your social media and your on your scripts.
Just really making people feel like they’re a part of something. They’re a part of an event. It’s experiential. Right?
And it’s almost aspirational if you want it to be. And I really, really like using the challenge, which is everyone says authentic. Be authentic on social, but what does that actually mean when you’re representing a brand? So, you know, taking cliche phrases or, you know, taking your favorite LinkedIn influencers, phrases they like to use, and just flipping them and be like, what does that even actually mean?
Does anybody even know what that means anymore? And you’re inviting conversation. Right? You might even just be contrarian.
And that’s, you know, probably the oldest, most natural form of trying to correct conversation with people is just being contrarian. So that’s the three I like to use specifically.
And if you guys want to play through this, I thought it would be fun to, like, do kind of an ad lib and where you just kinda stick in your own words there, whether it’s for yourself or your brand or a brand you wanna make up in your head. And I I call this the cap method, which is connect with your audience. And so it’s really important to list research, know who your audience is. And then amplify, which is create a conversational hook, something like almost like an elevator pitch or, you know, your your salesman pitch if you’re walking out to someone and you wanna sell it to immediately. And then PA polish, which is test and rate buying, like, make sure it’s dialed in specifically for your audience to make sure you can’t cut it down more.
I don’t think it’s always important to focus on something being short, but extra words are just extra work. So sometimes the only policy you need is just cut out the words that you don’t really need. And you’ll actually find that that can become more conversational because we do that as we speak. Right? We don’t usually speak in one hundred percent full, like, overly elocuted sentences with all the information. We need to slow them down so they can have a conversation.
So, yeah, if, like, anybody wants to, kinda play through this and work through it and do one of these, like, that would be really, really awesome if if anybody wants to volunteer with that. Otherwise, just, I guess, Joanna can do it.
Wait. What? Yeah.
Let’s all do it.
It’ll be fun. Practice is good. So guide us through this.
So we just wanna go through and do connect your audience’s blank who feel blank about blank, and then we just need to choose one of the hooks and then make it sound natural.
Well, I’ll try I’ll try walking through this myself first. Okay.
So I’ll I’ll just I’ll be mini chat. So my audience is, creators who feel a little bit lost about turning their creative ventures into money making businesses.
So Amplify, choose your hook type and fill in. So where we at?
Where were our hook types? I don’t remember. I’m sorry.
I’ll just say ever ever wondered why other people are posting the same con as you, but getting get past the same con as you, but getting twice as much engagement? Like, what gives with that? Like, how much time are they spending on their on their content? How many times are they reshooting guy?
Ugh. Hate it. You know? Or story hook.
I was this year’s old when I realized that people doing so well on Instagram are using ManyChat.
Or everyone says automation sucks, but you know what? I I was able to answer two hundred messages last night without ever picking up my phone, so jokes on them. Right?
Mhmm. So it’s like throwing those together is super fun. Reading them out now is also something I love to do and makes it me feel like it kinda goes against the idea of don’t write like you talk, but at the same time, it’s a great check for, you know, jargon, too much jargon in in your sentence or if it’s running loud and people having to take a breath in the middle, which is never anything good. So it’s does anybody else wanna do it? Play around with it? I wanna try it. Uh-huh.
This is good for I’m a little nervous, but I was thinking through my answers while you were talking.
So my audience is women who want to build wealth through life insurance and real estate.
Have you ever used life insurance to buy real estate?
I was twenty five years old when I realized you could use something old people buy to build wealth.
And everyone says life insurance is only for when you die, but you can actually use it while you’re alive.
Oh, bro.
Right there.
That’s the one? Okay.
That last one’s killer. I love that.
I like that one.
You gotta consider your audience. I will, be a little bit hesitant to, like, go straight with the death angle with a life insurance. Mhmm. It’s maybe a little morbid, but, like, I think that that is the one I would be like, okay. This is the one.
I might try, like, what’s a little bit edgy but not deaf?
Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard sometimes because young people don’t even think about it, but they’re the ones who benefit the most if they get it girly. So I’ll write down the challenge hook, and I’ll try it.
Well, so so, like, that’s important, like what you just said. So remember well, so cap, like, the c is connect with your audience. So well, that’s what you wanna figure out ahead of time. So do you want just one catch all that is old people, middle aged people, young people, or are you have running a campaign that’s specifically, hey. We’re noticing that young people are getting way more active buying life insurance.
We should capitalize on that because most of our marketing is of geared at whatever, forty five to fifty five year old people Mhmm. Or near or people nearing retirement age. And so immediately, you’re like, that’s our that’s our, that’s our audience. And so that would kinda guide that last statement where, okay. These are younger people, so they’re not thinking so much about it’s only for when you die. You might be able to spin that in a different way for that audience. You know what I mean?
Mhmm. Mhmm.
I think that was killer, though. Do I love that? I I would love that in a hero or in, like, an email, some top line for an email.
Yeah. Oh, thank you.
Yeah. And somebody else. Let’s go. This is fun. I will I will one hundred percent call out names.
I’ll try it. Who cares? Right? We’ll just go for it.
Okay. So my audience, are business owners who feel lonely about their lack of support when making decisions.
And then the three hooks are ever wondered how you can be so successful and feel so lonely. And I could probably, like, dial that in and put, like, a number to the bank account or something.
The next one, I was about to make the deal of my life surrounded by people when it hit me.
And then the next one, everyone says it’s going to be hard, but they don’t prepare you to be so lonely.
Dang. Those hit really hard. Like, that was I don’t see three bangers right there.
I hope sad energy. Back to business.
That’s amazing. I hope you’re writing these down. Those are really, really good. I’m a little jealous. Alright.
Nice.
That’s that’s great. I love that. So we have, like, twenty minutes left. I know that you wanted to keep the teaching the twenty minutes.
So if anybody else wants to go, I’d love to hear it, or we can just go straight into questions. I just wanna go over this. Something super, super important. I know we mentioned not everybody in this class has been doing this for a long time.
There’s new people. There’s old people, old in the sense of been doing this for a while, not old.
But one thing I think that’s getting lost a lot is super, super important that we always remember is every writer is also an editor. So I will have, like, Post it notes all over my monitor with little checklists depending on, like, if I’m doing a blog post, if I’m doing an email post, if I’m doing a headline that are literally just, like, for this specific structural element or where it exists in the hierarchy or who my audience is. Here’s the certain things I need to know. I need I know I need to be hitting.
So I’m I’m really big about checklists. So I kinda did a quick reference here. Like, does this sound like my audience actual language, which is so, so important in conversational copy, is that we can’t make them sound like they’re a part of the conversation if we don’t know how they’re talking. So we need to be in those conversations with our audience.
We need to be talking to them as much as possible. It’s easy to get into Google Analytics and pull demographics, but, part of my fringe, but that does not tell you shit about your audience. It tells you where they live, how much they make, but it doesn’t tell you, you know, what their fears are, what their pains are, what the horrible things that are going in their life are, and that’s much, much more important. Am I starting a conversation?
Am I making announcement? Is this something that I’m expecting a reply to, or is this just something I’m throwing out there? If you’re saying something and you’re not expecting or hoping or wanting a reply, then it’s clearly not a conversation. Right?
When I say this out loud to a friend, that is a great check. That is one that I think is super important, and I will talk to my wife. She works in a completely different industry, and I will say things to her because your jargon just scares people up. And especially if I’m running for a younger or a newer audience to my product, I wanna make sure that it’s not super little with jargon.
And if she is like, what? Then I know that I’m not there, and I can ask her what is it that’s throwing you up. Is it a word, the phrasing, whatever? She needs to tell me.
So friend, coworkers, whatever.
Does this make people want to respond? So this kinda ties in with, you know, the second one and the personalized line. Honestly, am I, like, saying something in such a way, like, tonality of how I say something? Even if I’m asking a question, can it be kitted conveyed as super sarcastic, or is it me actually asking them for that input? And sarcasm is okay. Like, sarcasm gets engagement.
But do I actually wanna reply, or do I just wanna act like I wanna reply? And do my words and creative work together? Oh my god. Please, If you just take one thing out of this, work with creative teams.
Like, work together and tame them, because you’ll just come out with such a better result. And I just had to we changed seven hundred and twenty eight ad creatives last year at ManyChat because the agency that we had used did not link up the right copy with the right creative, and none of it made sense. They had offer codes all over the place. So, yeah, just make sure, you know, whatever message you’re saying, think of, like, where your creative is if you’re a hand talker or you’re a prop talker.
You pick things up. You draw doodles, whatever. That’s what you’re creative. So it’s a part of your conversational style.
Right?
Okay.
That’s all I got for teaching. It’s all your time now.
Amazing. Thanks, Dustin. Very cool.
Alright. Does anybody have any questions? As usual, please raise your hand. Dustin, when we’re asking questions in here, we like start with a win. Before a person asks their question, they share a win that they might have.
So, the usual, please go ahead and raise your hand like I’m trying to there we go.
I’m trying to stop the share. Sorry. There we go.
Oh, sure. No worries.
And then yeah. Then we’ll go and dive in with any questions that you’ve got. Is anybody ready to step up? Ask away?
Shyness. Real shy in the room. Dustin, I wanna know about your if you don’t mind oh, Liezl. I hopped into some for you.
Oh, my win also is I got my book out to beta readers yesterday, so it’s done.
At this draft, at least, is done. That’s my win. Thank you. My question, Dustin, is just general curiosity over your career trajectory. Can you walk us through decisions you made, choices that brought you to I know it’s a big question, but what brought you to where you are as particularly at the company you’re at today and what you’re doing? Just like Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely.
So my first I cut my teeth.
My senior year in college, I applied for an internship at a small paper in the San Antonio called the San Antonio Current, and, like, the horror stories you hear, like, I literally worked in the newsroom and did new stuff and put stuff on the calendar. But I got really, really lucky, and my editor really liked me, and I had a good relationship with him. And he knew that I’ve been a bar of scenario for a while, so he’s like, hey. Like, I got to start going covering, bars in iLife, and I started my first ever published paid thing was a syndicated article called cocktail know how where I was, like, diving into the history of cocktails, which was really just me, like, finding my way and spreading my wings, I guess, as a writer. But it was my first paid gig. It was really, really sweet.
Since then, I worked at Thrillist, building a lot of lists and doing that sort of thing for them, writing about nightlife, bars. Kinda got my feel of that. Didn’t really wanna be in that industry anymore. So I went to a company called BizNow, and I was a commercial real estate reporter and copywriter.
I drafted all their emails and press releases, wrote content for their websites, and they wanted me to move, like, across the country and be a full time reporter, and I wouldn’t do that. So we had to part ways. And then I started working at the CHIVE, which was a very interesting sidetrack in my life because I was older than, like, everyone there. So they were real bro y, frat bro y.
If you know what the tribe is, that wouldn’t really surprise you. And but I really got a lot of experience working with brands, writing in different voices, being forced to write in different voices for different companies, writing their ads. We would have their ad placements in post. We would write, and I would have to write, like, in their brand voice for their audience.
And so it was a great opportunity for me to really work on writing different people’s voices, doing the research I needed to do to find out who those people were. Super, super important for me.
They went over under. I got laid off, and I wanted to keep working and expanding my skills. So I decided that I wanted to take some courses in UX to really get a better handle on connecting with my users, how to take user insights, how to research about my users, my competitors, and those things, and how to apply them back to my writing and UX my words. In the same way, kind of like you UX, whatever, your applications, your UIs, and those sorts of things. It was probably the best decision I ever made for my clock writing career.
The insights I got just on talking to people, how to engage people, had to be on camera every day all day. We had, like, speaking sessions. Like, it was the most important step I made for me in my career, not as a writer, but committing to being a writer.
So after that, I got a job as a head UX marketing writer for a men’s health company, and I got to do a lot of medical writing where I actually worked alongside three, board certified doctors doing a lot of releases. I built, patient inflow, did all their ads, and spearheaded a campaign for them, with the first ever campaign they did for LGBTQ.
And we did this really, really, really awesome campaign that I wrote, this really, really cool ads for. And it was super expensive, and my, marketing director quit and ran off with all the footage.
Yeah. So we never got to see it. So that was a super, super bummer.
And so I split from there. I was like, this is not cool. This is not gonna work for me. And I went to a company called Scribe Media, which was incredible, amazing. I met some of the best people I’ve ever worked with in my life. I work in editorial on books that really, really make a difference and push the idea how important reading and writing is, which is a really big deal to me.
Performative time for me as a professional. Had my best boss I’ve ever had in my career as a as a creative.
His name is Chris Piper, and he was super great at empowering me and very good mentor for me and really, really showed me that I go to this, and I should be doing this. And I had the pleasure and great luck to write a campaign for Rob Report magazine that made three million dollars in a second run of the magazine. So huge deal for me. Pretty much gave me a green light to do whatever I wanted, and that was a really, really awesome time for me.
Left there, and let’s see. Where did I go from there? Oh, I started my own business. Jeez.
I started my own business. I was like, hey. I’m gonna do my own thing, run my own creative department, do all this stuff. It was amazing.
I loved everything about it other than the lack of time, and I nearly had a nervous breakdown. So I had to give up my business fight, and that’s when I was like, I wanna go back to a company environment because I like the collaborative relationships. I like learning from other people, yada yada yada. And it brought me to ManyChat, which has been probably the most fun experience.
And the content that we’re putting out is most closely aligns with who I am as a writer and a creative. And I think that that is something for every single one of you if you really, really are in this to become a copywriter. That is the goal is to go somewhere where you feel like your creative passions and your creative styles really, really align with the the company and the people and all that stuff. So it’s been an amazing experience for me.
I’ve written, podcast scripts. I’ve written scripts for social media ads. I have, like, rewritten websites. I’ve done, like, everything.
I’ve written, we have a summit once a year. I’ve written entire presentations for, like, famous people. We had Trevor Noah last year. I did not write his presentation.
That would have been awesome. But yeah. So I’ve gotta do everything, and I know that there’s a lot of doom and gloom about this industry, and there’s a lot of fear about AI. And I think that that’s very well founded, and everybody should be up to speed on what that can do and how it can help you.
But I stand behind with the power of, real human creative, and I think that it it shows. When someone is good at it and they put their heart into it, it shows. You put it next to it, they’ve done it. You can put it next to AI and testing it.
People will, relate to, and they will more gravitate towards the one that’s human. So, yeah, that’s my story. Sorry. That was really long.
That’s cool.
That’s yeah. No. There’s a lot. Thank you for that.
Lots to ask, but I’m going to turn it over to Liesl. And then if there’s more time, I’ll follow-up.
Liesl.
Hey. Okay. So I had a question, but now I have a different one.
How do you use Liesl, you need your win first.
Oh, my win. You’re right. I created or, like, defined and created, like, my lead framework and my retention, flywheel this week so that I can like, I’ve also done the workshop and everything like that, so that I can go out and sell it. So that was cool. That was fun.
But my question is, you said that the UX, I guess, education that you got is a big contribute here to your career in a very big way and helped you understand your users, your people better.
What is your process? Like, you told us, like, okay. I get into the middle of the event. But what is your process?
Like, what does that look like to get into the head of the people you’re writing for? Because you’ve written for a ton of people. Do you have a process? Do you just sit there at your desk and, like, dream?
Or, like, what do you do?
Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, first, I depending on the what the campaign is and who it’s for, one of the first things I always do is just go look at what other people have done. Like, I’ll look at other really, really successful campaigns. Like, if I’m writing about whatever, like, a a energy bar for millennials, then I’ll just go look at other millennial, campaigns in that, whatever that industry is, and really look at what people are gravitating towards, what’s resonating with them, is probably one of the first things I’ll do.
And one reason I’ll do that is because I look at the terms they’re using, especially if it’s, you know, if it’s, the group that I’m not a part of. Like, I’m not a millennial. I do like energy bars. But that’s my first step to getting into that.
And then I will just literally try to talk to people. Like, I’ll go around my office, if I can.
I’ll go online, and I’ll go into Reddit. I’ll start Reddit threads. I’ll go on LinkedIn and literally go to companies, like, you know, like, what Kindbar? Like, I would go to Kindbar and be like, hey.
Can I talk to y’all? Blah blah blah blah. You know? And try to just try to get in conversations with the people that are in that industry and try to get into conversations with the customers for that industry.
And it’s just like having the conversations. Listening to sales calls is another thing, like, I’ve done before too. If you have a company that has a sales arm, listening to sales calls and how those people are talking to your salespeople. Even if they’re complaining, you can pick up on, you know, those messages, but reading between the lines of things they’re saying, how they’re saying it, whatever their vernacular is, those sorts of things.
And it’s really just, like, being a part of those conversations as much as possible.
Awesome. Thank you.
You’re welcome.
Caitlin, what’s your win?
Hello.
My win is I made a reel that I’m, like, very, very excited about, and I think it’s super funny.
And my question is so this is me just being nosy because I’ve only ever worked in startups and then for myself.
So, like, what is, like, the review process, like, in a company like ManyChat? Because I know I’ve just always been very autonomous. There are maybe, like, two stakeholders in, like, the copy that I write who need to, like, review.
So just wondering, like, what the process is in terms of, like, from when the assignment comes in, how that comes in, to how much creativity you get, to who needs to review, like, what happens next.
That’s a really, really good question.
It’s a complicated answer because it depends. It always depends. Right?
There are some things that I’m allowed to just own, and I can literally write the whole thing and send it off to whatever performance or whoever it is.
Meanwhile, there are some things, like, we’re doing a full on website rewrite. So for, something on that level, it literally goes to everybody. So I will get a brief that will say, you know, we wanna rewrite the home page.
Here’s the messaging we like, and my brand person I’m super, super lucky to have this great brand strategist and brand people that will give me a messaging doc and say, hey. Here’s the messaging that we’ve agreed on, for our audience. This is locked in.
And then I’ll take that typically and make a first pass if I can, like, just getting stuff down, getting the, the hierarchy set, the framework to it. Usually, a creative will already kind of know design will know kind of what are my sections, how much room do I have to play with, and I’ll get that. And I’ll punch stuff in. And then, usually, I will immediately take that first draft and get it in front of someone else, for for me.
So So that’s my first check is I’ll get it in front of, like, a social when someone from social, hey. Like, what do you think of this? Like, does anything stand out to you? If they’re cool, they sign off, then I’ll send it usually would be to, my head of content, and he will either if it’s really, really close and just, like, one or two things or or there’s, like, a whatever, a typo somewhere, he’ll fix that.
He might, like, tweak one or two things. And then if he likes it, then he will approve it and send it up to then it will go to header brands and my CMO.
And my head of brand and my CMO will do exactly the same thing. They will each go through it meticulously and make comments, suggestions. It might be in a Figma file or it might be in a a dot, make comments and suggestions. And, really, depending on how close it is at that point, we might just say tweak those and send it.
Or they might say, let’s make another pass. Let’s go another round. And at which point then I’ll get a little bit more into the nitty gritty. So at that point, I’ll usually go to, like, a product manager, and another SME within whatever that product is and be like, hey.
Like, where is this missing?
Here’s our messaging. Like, what am I not hitting on?
And almost always that rounds with the SME or product manager or someone that really, really knows that stuff will get me there. But it goes literally right back to the same process. My head of content, my other brand, and my CMO. And if anyone in there doesn’t like it, he comes back to me.
So it really it just matters. Like, I’ve written full commercials, that were just like, boop, boop, boop. We shot them in a day. We shot we actually shot five ads in one day once.
We did, like, a full ad sprint, and we wrote and shot five ads in one day. Don’t do that. It was crazy. But, yeah, it just it really depends.
And where you are in your career and what you’ve shown you can do and how much buy in you have from leadership. It or there’s so many variables that are gonna affect that. But I will say that is something I tell everybody else that’s new or or new writers is, like, set you set your boundaries and stick to them and make sure that immediately you know, you don’t don’t be offensive and just completely decline stuff, but let people know. Like, hey.
Five o’clock, that’s it. I’m done. I’m not I’m not running anymore stuff. I’m not working with this anymore.
Like, I have a family life, and whatever it is. Whatever your your lines are, that’s one thing. And two, block your time. If you need to deep dive on something, put it on your calendar and say, don’t bother me.
Like, I gotta bust this out.
So suffice. What’s up, I’m sorry. Am I saying that wrong?
I got all excited.
Okay.
So I’ll lower my hand first.
I had a question about just the content and what I believe to be what a lot of people do. So on social, a lot of people use hooks to get your attention, but then they’re, like, always is I don’t know, extravagant or extra.
Do you think we should even be concerned, or should we just create the content?
I’ll let your audience tell you. Do both. Do both. See what your audience interacts with. That’s what I would say to those kind of questions.
I think, you know, this goes back to the UX way that I like to do stuff.
I would much rather make something that I think is good that may not make it more perfect and put it in front of the audience and see what they say.
If they kick it back, then they’re like, what is this? Or people start making comments, then I’m like, alright. That’s right. But sometimes you put that out there, and they’re like, this is awesome.
This is amazing. We like the less produced version of it. We like it just feels like you’re talking to us. It doesn’t feel salesy.
Like, people come back and tell you, like, that’s probably one of the best piece of advice I can give anybody honestly working in marketing is let your customers tell you.
Okay. Yeah. Because I use conversational text for emails all the time. I’m a storytelling based email marketer. And my like, today, I did a I did a email that clearly worked because everyone’s responding to it, where I’ve announced that I got a job, but I’ve been a full time entrepreneur for, like, two two and a half years almost.
Yes. Congratulations.
Thank you. But if you read it, it’s telling a story about how basically one of my clients hired me so that I could do that job all the time, and I love it. But I still have my business too. So it was my email to encourage people to show up to my webinar about side hustles.
And so I was like, so now my business is my side hustle, and my job is my main gig. So it totally worked. People are saying congratulations. People are like, oh, I’m gonna show up tonight and what?
You know? So that really works. But I struggle on social because I I hate having to show up. So I had attended one of our previous sessions where we talked about batching.
Well, we talked about content in general, and the speaker encouraged batching. And I told her, I’m gonna try, but sometimes I just don’t wanna show up and then have to do something for, like, an hour and then I don’t know. It’s something about, like, doing it in real time. So that’s that.
But my win, was I took my Friday feedback and applied it to one of my clients’ emails, and I got emails with, like, two and a half to three and a half percent click rate, which is really big improvement for them. I didn’t make any sales, but thanks to your advice, I also explained to them that these click rates mean the awareness of the events is happening, and they’re just not ready to buy. And then people bought yesterday. So I’m super excited that advice works.
Yeah. And so that’s my win, and thanks for answering my question. This is awesome.
You’re very welcome. Amazing. Good win. Yeah. And good question.
Anybody else have any other questions for Dustin while we have him here?
Caitlin’s back.
One more.
I feel like I might have a couple.
This came from I told, one of my clients that I was, you know, gonna be on a Zoom with a senior copywriter at ManyChat and asked if she had questions and one of her questions because we utilize ManyChat a lot.
But are there wait. What was it? What are some ways that you think people might be underutilizing ManyChat?
Yes.
It really depends on what you’re using it for. I would say just going ahead and signing up, for a pro account is just such a game changer.
The ability to batch things and use, like, the AI automations within there and some of the other things, you know, auto auto follow-up and some of the things that come just with pro are just absolute, like, godsend lifesavers. Like, they, just change everything. And the more and, really, Pro is built to, like, the more you do, the more it does. So, like, if you’re batching out a flow for, you know, five hundred people, you can just use the AI flow builder, and you do it once, and then it’ll do it five hundred times.
You don’t to keep recreating it. So I would say probably the biggest thing people are doing is just not just popping for it, which I get. I ran my own business, and, like, I know, like, my name was super excited at the beginning, and I would not have been able to use ManyChat, but I would say that’s it. Also, being just being more mindful, kinda like we talked about in this presentation.
Like, mindful of how you’re talking to your audience and not being super salesy and making sure that you’re being communicative. And I think that their Internet is really, really going in a way that people that seem like they’re actually interested in fostering real relationship, they’re talking to you real and ask you how you’re doing. Like, that’s gonna go a long way to building relationships. And I think, like, you know, marketing is all about not selling something now, but being front of the mind when somebody wants your product.
And if you’re building those relationships and they’re thinking thinking about you in that way, and they get on Instagram and they see you in their feed, whatever, that’s how you do that. So I would just say, you know, be friendly and be real, and don’t try to sell. Just let the sell happen. You know?
Like, it sounds so cliche or, like, wolf of washery, but, like, just just let this all happen just because you create a relationship.
Cool. Thank you.
Transcript
This is amazing, Dustin.
I know you have a lot that you wanna share with us today.
Just wanna introduce Dustin to the room.
He is a senior copywriter, I believe, is the title over at ManyChat.
We were chatting a bit on LinkedIn, and then I started looking more into what he does and was like, cool. You should come teach.
And he was down for it, which is amazing. So today, of the many things that Dustin could be sharing with us, he’s gonna talk with us particularly about, said like a Canadian, about, conversational how what’s the title for it, Dustin?
It is conversational copywriting for social.
That’s right.
Yes. That’s right. Good. Perfect. So we’re gonna hear a lot there. Some really cool stuff.
Twenty minutes ish of training. There’ll be some practice, some exercises, some things to think through, and then, of course, any questions that y’all would like answered. And those are typically Dustin, I’ve warned you. Sometimes those questions are directly related to the subject you just taught on.
Other times, it’s more about, like, your career, how you got there, how do you get, copy approved with a lot of different people in an organization, how do you get buy in for new ideas, where do ideas come from, all of those kinds of things could come up.
But we have about sixty minutes, fifty five minutes left. So, Dustin, I’m gonna let you take it from here.
Sure. Yeah. I’ll just say to just piggyback on top of what you just said.
You know, I talked to Joanne and Sarah both. I want this to be a very conversational session. I feel like the best way for people to learn and and really get excited about this is to feel like they’re leading it. So whatever questions you have pertaining to this lesson or pertaining to anything, I’ve been doing this for fifteen years.
I’ve done almost every industry. I’ve done direct response, done content, done copy. So been around the block a few times. So, yeah, I hope I can answer all those questions, when we’re done with this.
So I’ll go ahead and open this up, and I guess I will need to share my screen.
And while that’s loading up, for those who are looking for it, Sarah chatted over the link to the work.
Does everything look good on y’all’s end?
Perfect.
Amazing. Okay. So, yeah, like I mentioned, today, we’re gonna talk a little bit about conversational copywriting for social.
And I guess the first thing to get out of the way is this misconception, especially when we’re doing anything on social, whether it’s a LinkedIn post or you’re writing a video script or being in a video script, whatever it is, is write like you talk. That is not what conversational copywriting means. Conversational copywriting is writing in such a way that you are sparking conversation. You’re engaging with people.
You’re making people feel like they are a part of what you’re saying. You know? Are there landing pages, product product descriptions, mini chat? We do automation.
So, automation flows like that, making people feel like they’re a part of something instead of being talked at.
So one important distinction there. Yeah. Let’s go ahead and jump in. So, yeah, like I mentioned here, a conversation copy is, right, starts conversations, advice engagement, engagement, and doesn’t just inform people.
So, like, a big difference between copywriting really and content writing as I see it is content writing is a lot more informing. Copywriting does a lot more selling, engaging, describing, aspirational type stuff. So conversational copy is really just taking that to the next level and really saying, we don’t want to just act like we’re having conversations. We actually wanna talk to you.
So, yeah, the difference is kind of broadcasting. Here are five tips for better social media. We’re just gonna ingest that. We’re not gonna interact with it.
Right? Conversational, everyone wonder why some posts get tons of comments while others get crickets. So immediately, they’re like, yeah. I have thought about that.
So it feels like you’re kicking off a conversation. Right? Not necessarily how I’d probably say that, but it it starts that conversation. Why this matters?
Conversational marketing campaigns have eighty three percent open rate versus twenty one for traditional campaigns, and I think that we’ll see a kind of a bell curve happen with this as AI becomes more popular and as AI gets better at writing like a person.
And it’ll be like this inverse bell curve to people’s trust. So people’s trust will rise as it gets better at that, and they won’t be able to tell the difference. And then they’ll realize, oh my gosh. This has been a AI all along, and we’ll begin to fall off.
So there’s this weird, weird wave we’re riding that we just have to write out because I do think that personal conversations and really having those those connections, those interactions are what are gonna is what is gonna separate the good brands or strong brands from the ones that may have a good product but just kinda are forgotten, which is the worst thing that can happen if you’re a copywriter.
Why it matters even more on social, people consume social media feeds in one and a half one point seven seconds. It’s absurd how quickly people will just scan through. So if they don’t feel like they are immediately engaged by you, if you’re not doing something to immediately speak to them, make them feel like they’re the heart of the conversation, like they’re the center of the conversation or, like, marketing trope kind of overused, but they’re the hero.
They’re not. Right?
Unless you just have a product that is up for them and your placement’s great, which is really, really good if you have, you know, good, performance marketers and know how to get exactly the right message in front of the right people, but sometimes you can’t do that in conversational copywriting is a way to bridge that gap. Save your performance creatives save your performance team some money and help your stuff get seen because it’s just more easy to engage with. It’s more pleasant, and it’s more real for people.
Conversational marketing campaigns achieve eighty eighty three percent open rate compared to only one percent traditional campaigns.
It doesn’t just get seen. It gets responded to. So you think about if you’ve ever done an email campaign, a blast, whatever, a flow, and you don’t expect it, but someone replies to you, you know, like, hey. Like, blah blah blah.
I really like this email. You said something I really liked, or it’s a newsletter or something like that. Like, you are, in that regard, absolutely, like, acing your conversational style because you’re unintentionally triggering something or intentionally in that person that made them respond to an email they may not have. Like, sometimes I get, like, product your product is shipped emails, whatever, from someone I like, and they have a great, you know, follow-up sequence.
And I’ll rock them back and be like, oh my god. Like, that was so great, and have a conversation with them. So it’s cool. Like, those are little touch spots that are so, so important for us as marketing gets more, like, flooded with AI and not real creative.
So a little checklist on what isn’t conversational copy. It’s not just writing how you talk. That’s fun, and it is super great on social media platforms as long as you’re really, really informed on your audience, you know who they are, and you can pass. Like, you don’t nobody wants to be the how do you kids guy with the skateboard. Right? Like, don’t be that guy.
Being overly casual, unprofessional, same thing. It’s not about using jargon that’s off the beaten path or cussing or, you know, using asterisks or anything like that. Although, I will say that parenthetical phrases have become a real signal for, oh, my inner thoughts, and so it can be more conversational.
But AI started to pick up on that too. And broadcasting announcements. This is, like, a huge, huge thing. So you have a banner on a website or an email you send out. There’s multiple ways you can do this.
One is thinking of it as you just standing up on your soapbox, shouting to a room full of people, hey. Like, we have this great new sale going on. Get forty percent off. Bye.
You know? Or it’s going to your friend or texting your friend and say, oh my god. Did you see JCPenney? Okay.
Yeah. I didn’t show you my age. But did you see JCPenney? He’s having a fifty percent off, so that’s really cool.
We should check it out. You know?
That’s the, like, two different kinds of ways of engaging with people. It’s like just blasting out information and you’re talking with someone.
So some examples that I like to use as far as, like, keeping things conversational and, like, how I will idea on these is question hooks, which is one we’ve already seen in what is and what is the copy. Convers conversation copywriting is ever written, social media caption and immediately wanting to delete your entire account. Like, why it works is because you’re asking a question that’s one hundred percent relatable to your audience and something that you’ve probably thought. So you can assume as a creative is gonna think that too.
Unfinished story. I was three coffees deep when I realized our chatbot was getting more engagement than our social team. So I love and I talked with Joanna and Sarah about this. I love to use a technique where I think about, you know, if I’m writing a hero, I think about it’s an event.
Like, whatever is happening here is the event. And I don’t want to talk to people at the beginning of an event because it’s it’s really hard to, like, create all the if if everything you need, like, the FOMO or, you know, going after their the benefits, the features, whatever it is. And I don’t wanna be at the end of the event because we’ve lost the chance to build up that excitement. We’ve skipped the climax and gone right to, like, the ending.
Like, that sucks. Like, I want the good stuff. So I like to try and drop myself into the middle of that conversation and bring my audience into the middle of that conversation, and that makes it feel like, you know, you walk into a room and someone’s having a great conversation, and you’re like, oh my god. I love this.
And you start listening. You wanna know more, and you start asking questions, and I feel like that has more effect. Like, I want people to especially in heroes and headlines and, headlines on your social media and your on your scripts.
Just really making people feel like they’re a part of something. They’re a part of an event. It’s experiential. Right?
And it’s almost aspirational if you want it to be. And I really, really like using the challenge, which is everyone says authentic. Be authentic on social, but what does that actually mean when you’re representing a brand? So, you know, taking cliche phrases or, you know, taking your favorite LinkedIn influencers, phrases they like to use, and just flipping them and be like, what does that even actually mean?
Does anybody even know what that means anymore? And you’re inviting conversation. Right? You might even just be contrarian.
And that’s, you know, probably the oldest, most natural form of trying to correct conversation with people is just being contrarian. So that’s the three I like to use specifically.
And if you guys want to play through this, I thought it would be fun to, like, do kind of an ad lib and where you just kinda stick in your own words there, whether it’s for yourself or your brand or a brand you wanna make up in your head. And I I call this the cap method, which is connect with your audience. And so it’s really important to list research, know who your audience is. And then amplify, which is create a conversational hook, something like almost like an elevator pitch or, you know, your your salesman pitch if you’re walking out to someone and you wanna sell it to immediately. And then PA polish, which is test and rate buying, like, make sure it’s dialed in specifically for your audience to make sure you can’t cut it down more.
I don’t think it’s always important to focus on something being short, but extra words are just extra work. So sometimes the only policy you need is just cut out the words that you don’t really need. And you’ll actually find that that can become more conversational because we do that as we speak. Right? We don’t usually speak in one hundred percent full, like, overly elocuted sentences with all the information. We need to slow them down so they can have a conversation.
So, yeah, if, like, anybody wants to, kinda play through this and work through it and do one of these, like, that would be really, really awesome if if anybody wants to volunteer with that. Otherwise, just, I guess, Joanna can do it.
Wait. What? Yeah.
Let’s all do it.
It’ll be fun. Practice is good. So guide us through this.
So we just wanna go through and do connect your audience’s blank who feel blank about blank, and then we just need to choose one of the hooks and then make it sound natural.
Well, I’ll try I’ll try walking through this myself first. Okay.
So I’ll I’ll just I’ll be mini chat. So my audience is, creators who feel a little bit lost about turning their creative ventures into money making businesses.
So Amplify, choose your hook type and fill in. So where we at?
Where were our hook types? I don’t remember. I’m sorry.
I’ll just say ever ever wondered why other people are posting the same con as you, but getting get past the same con as you, but getting twice as much engagement? Like, what gives with that? Like, how much time are they spending on their on their content? How many times are they reshooting guy?
Ugh. Hate it. You know? Or story hook.
I was this year’s old when I realized that people doing so well on Instagram are using ManyChat.
Or everyone says automation sucks, but you know what? I I was able to answer two hundred messages last night without ever picking up my phone, so jokes on them. Right?
Mhmm. So it’s like throwing those together is super fun. Reading them out now is also something I love to do and makes it me feel like it kinda goes against the idea of don’t write like you talk, but at the same time, it’s a great check for, you know, jargon, too much jargon in in your sentence or if it’s running loud and people having to take a breath in the middle, which is never anything good. So it’s does anybody else wanna do it? Play around with it? I wanna try it. Uh-huh.
This is good for I’m a little nervous, but I was thinking through my answers while you were talking.
So my audience is women who want to build wealth through life insurance and real estate.
Have you ever used life insurance to buy real estate?
I was twenty five years old when I realized you could use something old people buy to build wealth.
And everyone says life insurance is only for when you die, but you can actually use it while you’re alive.
Oh, bro.
Right there.
That’s the one? Okay.
That last one’s killer. I love that.
I like that one.
You gotta consider your audience. I will, be a little bit hesitant to, like, go straight with the death angle with a life insurance. Mhmm. It’s maybe a little morbid, but, like, I think that that is the one I would be like, okay. This is the one.
I might try, like, what’s a little bit edgy but not deaf?
Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard sometimes because young people don’t even think about it, but they’re the ones who benefit the most if they get it girly. So I’ll write down the challenge hook, and I’ll try it.
Well, so so, like, that’s important, like what you just said. So remember well, so cap, like, the c is connect with your audience. So well, that’s what you wanna figure out ahead of time. So do you want just one catch all that is old people, middle aged people, young people, or are you have running a campaign that’s specifically, hey. We’re noticing that young people are getting way more active buying life insurance.
We should capitalize on that because most of our marketing is of geared at whatever, forty five to fifty five year old people Mhmm. Or near or people nearing retirement age. And so immediately, you’re like, that’s our that’s our, that’s our audience. And so that would kinda guide that last statement where, okay. These are younger people, so they’re not thinking so much about it’s only for when you die. You might be able to spin that in a different way for that audience. You know what I mean?
Mhmm. Mhmm.
I think that was killer, though. Do I love that? I I would love that in a hero or in, like, an email, some top line for an email.
Yeah. Oh, thank you.
Yeah. And somebody else. Let’s go. This is fun. I will I will one hundred percent call out names.
I’ll try it. Who cares? Right? We’ll just go for it.
Okay. So my audience, are business owners who feel lonely about their lack of support when making decisions.
And then the three hooks are ever wondered how you can be so successful and feel so lonely. And I could probably, like, dial that in and put, like, a number to the bank account or something.
The next one, I was about to make the deal of my life surrounded by people when it hit me.
And then the next one, everyone says it’s going to be hard, but they don’t prepare you to be so lonely.
Dang. Those hit really hard. Like, that was I don’t see three bangers right there.
I hope sad energy. Back to business.
That’s amazing. I hope you’re writing these down. Those are really, really good. I’m a little jealous. Alright.
Nice.
That’s that’s great. I love that. So we have, like, twenty minutes left. I know that you wanted to keep the teaching the twenty minutes.
So if anybody else wants to go, I’d love to hear it, or we can just go straight into questions. I just wanna go over this. Something super, super important. I know we mentioned not everybody in this class has been doing this for a long time.
There’s new people. There’s old people, old in the sense of been doing this for a while, not old.
But one thing I think that’s getting lost a lot is super, super important that we always remember is every writer is also an editor. So I will have, like, Post it notes all over my monitor with little checklists depending on, like, if I’m doing a blog post, if I’m doing an email post, if I’m doing a headline that are literally just, like, for this specific structural element or where it exists in the hierarchy or who my audience is. Here’s the certain things I need to know. I need I know I need to be hitting.
So I’m I’m really big about checklists. So I kinda did a quick reference here. Like, does this sound like my audience actual language, which is so, so important in conversational copy, is that we can’t make them sound like they’re a part of the conversation if we don’t know how they’re talking. So we need to be in those conversations with our audience.
We need to be talking to them as much as possible. It’s easy to get into Google Analytics and pull demographics, but, part of my fringe, but that does not tell you shit about your audience. It tells you where they live, how much they make, but it doesn’t tell you, you know, what their fears are, what their pains are, what the horrible things that are going in their life are, and that’s much, much more important. Am I starting a conversation?
Am I making announcement? Is this something that I’m expecting a reply to, or is this just something I’m throwing out there? If you’re saying something and you’re not expecting or hoping or wanting a reply, then it’s clearly not a conversation. Right?
When I say this out loud to a friend, that is a great check. That is one that I think is super important, and I will talk to my wife. She works in a completely different industry, and I will say things to her because your jargon just scares people up. And especially if I’m running for a younger or a newer audience to my product, I wanna make sure that it’s not super little with jargon.
And if she is like, what? Then I know that I’m not there, and I can ask her what is it that’s throwing you up. Is it a word, the phrasing, whatever? She needs to tell me.
So friend, coworkers, whatever.
Does this make people want to respond? So this kinda ties in with, you know, the second one and the personalized line. Honestly, am I, like, saying something in such a way, like, tonality of how I say something? Even if I’m asking a question, can it be kitted conveyed as super sarcastic, or is it me actually asking them for that input? And sarcasm is okay. Like, sarcasm gets engagement.
But do I actually wanna reply, or do I just wanna act like I wanna reply? And do my words and creative work together? Oh my god. Please, If you just take one thing out of this, work with creative teams.
Like, work together and tame them, because you’ll just come out with such a better result. And I just had to we changed seven hundred and twenty eight ad creatives last year at ManyChat because the agency that we had used did not link up the right copy with the right creative, and none of it made sense. They had offer codes all over the place. So, yeah, just make sure, you know, whatever message you’re saying, think of, like, where your creative is if you’re a hand talker or you’re a prop talker.
You pick things up. You draw doodles, whatever. That’s what you’re creative. So it’s a part of your conversational style.
Right?
Okay.
That’s all I got for teaching. It’s all your time now.
Amazing. Thanks, Dustin. Very cool.
Alright. Does anybody have any questions? As usual, please raise your hand. Dustin, when we’re asking questions in here, we like start with a win. Before a person asks their question, they share a win that they might have.
So, the usual, please go ahead and raise your hand like I’m trying to there we go.
I’m trying to stop the share. Sorry. There we go.
Oh, sure. No worries.
And then yeah. Then we’ll go and dive in with any questions that you’ve got. Is anybody ready to step up? Ask away?
Shyness. Real shy in the room. Dustin, I wanna know about your if you don’t mind oh, Liezl. I hopped into some for you.
Oh, my win also is I got my book out to beta readers yesterday, so it’s done.
At this draft, at least, is done. That’s my win. Thank you. My question, Dustin, is just general curiosity over your career trajectory. Can you walk us through decisions you made, choices that brought you to I know it’s a big question, but what brought you to where you are as particularly at the company you’re at today and what you’re doing? Just like Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely.
So my first I cut my teeth.
My senior year in college, I applied for an internship at a small paper in the San Antonio called the San Antonio Current, and, like, the horror stories you hear, like, I literally worked in the newsroom and did new stuff and put stuff on the calendar. But I got really, really lucky, and my editor really liked me, and I had a good relationship with him. And he knew that I’ve been a bar of scenario for a while, so he’s like, hey. Like, I got to start going covering, bars in iLife, and I started my first ever published paid thing was a syndicated article called cocktail know how where I was, like, diving into the history of cocktails, which was really just me, like, finding my way and spreading my wings, I guess, as a writer. But it was my first paid gig. It was really, really sweet.
Since then, I worked at Thrillist, building a lot of lists and doing that sort of thing for them, writing about nightlife, bars. Kinda got my feel of that. Didn’t really wanna be in that industry anymore. So I went to a company called BizNow, and I was a commercial real estate reporter and copywriter.
I drafted all their emails and press releases, wrote content for their websites, and they wanted me to move, like, across the country and be a full time reporter, and I wouldn’t do that. So we had to part ways. And then I started working at the CHIVE, which was a very interesting sidetrack in my life because I was older than, like, everyone there. So they were real bro y, frat bro y.
If you know what the tribe is, that wouldn’t really surprise you. And but I really got a lot of experience working with brands, writing in different voices, being forced to write in different voices for different companies, writing their ads. We would have their ad placements in post. We would write, and I would have to write, like, in their brand voice for their audience.
And so it was a great opportunity for me to really work on writing different people’s voices, doing the research I needed to do to find out who those people were. Super, super important for me.
They went over under. I got laid off, and I wanted to keep working and expanding my skills. So I decided that I wanted to take some courses in UX to really get a better handle on connecting with my users, how to take user insights, how to research about my users, my competitors, and those things, and how to apply them back to my writing and UX my words. In the same way, kind of like you UX, whatever, your applications, your UIs, and those sorts of things. It was probably the best decision I ever made for my clock writing career.
The insights I got just on talking to people, how to engage people, had to be on camera every day all day. We had, like, speaking sessions. Like, it was the most important step I made for me in my career, not as a writer, but committing to being a writer.
So after that, I got a job as a head UX marketing writer for a men’s health company, and I got to do a lot of medical writing where I actually worked alongside three, board certified doctors doing a lot of releases. I built, patient inflow, did all their ads, and spearheaded a campaign for them, with the first ever campaign they did for LGBTQ.
And we did this really, really, really awesome campaign that I wrote, this really, really cool ads for. And it was super expensive, and my, marketing director quit and ran off with all the footage.
Yeah. So we never got to see it. So that was a super, super bummer.
And so I split from there. I was like, this is not cool. This is not gonna work for me. And I went to a company called Scribe Media, which was incredible, amazing. I met some of the best people I’ve ever worked with in my life. I work in editorial on books that really, really make a difference and push the idea how important reading and writing is, which is a really big deal to me.
Performative time for me as a professional. Had my best boss I’ve ever had in my career as a as a creative.
His name is Chris Piper, and he was super great at empowering me and very good mentor for me and really, really showed me that I go to this, and I should be doing this. And I had the pleasure and great luck to write a campaign for Rob Report magazine that made three million dollars in a second run of the magazine. So huge deal for me. Pretty much gave me a green light to do whatever I wanted, and that was a really, really awesome time for me.
Left there, and let’s see. Where did I go from there? Oh, I started my own business. Jeez.
I started my own business. I was like, hey. I’m gonna do my own thing, run my own creative department, do all this stuff. It was amazing.
I loved everything about it other than the lack of time, and I nearly had a nervous breakdown. So I had to give up my business fight, and that’s when I was like, I wanna go back to a company environment because I like the collaborative relationships. I like learning from other people, yada yada yada. And it brought me to ManyChat, which has been probably the most fun experience.
And the content that we’re putting out is most closely aligns with who I am as a writer and a creative. And I think that that is something for every single one of you if you really, really are in this to become a copywriter. That is the goal is to go somewhere where you feel like your creative passions and your creative styles really, really align with the the company and the people and all that stuff. So it’s been an amazing experience for me.
I’ve written, podcast scripts. I’ve written scripts for social media ads. I have, like, rewritten websites. I’ve done, like, everything.
I’ve written, we have a summit once a year. I’ve written entire presentations for, like, famous people. We had Trevor Noah last year. I did not write his presentation.
That would have been awesome. But yeah. So I’ve gotta do everything, and I know that there’s a lot of doom and gloom about this industry, and there’s a lot of fear about AI. And I think that that’s very well founded, and everybody should be up to speed on what that can do and how it can help you.
But I stand behind with the power of, real human creative, and I think that it it shows. When someone is good at it and they put their heart into it, it shows. You put it next to it, they’ve done it. You can put it next to AI and testing it.
People will, relate to, and they will more gravitate towards the one that’s human. So, yeah, that’s my story. Sorry. That was really long.
That’s cool.
That’s yeah. No. There’s a lot. Thank you for that.
Lots to ask, but I’m going to turn it over to Liesl. And then if there’s more time, I’ll follow-up.
Liesl.
Hey. Okay. So I had a question, but now I have a different one.
How do you use Liesl, you need your win first.
Oh, my win. You’re right. I created or, like, defined and created, like, my lead framework and my retention, flywheel this week so that I can like, I’ve also done the workshop and everything like that, so that I can go out and sell it. So that was cool. That was fun.
But my question is, you said that the UX, I guess, education that you got is a big contribute here to your career in a very big way and helped you understand your users, your people better.
What is your process? Like, you told us, like, okay. I get into the middle of the event. But what is your process?
Like, what does that look like to get into the head of the people you’re writing for? Because you’ve written for a ton of people. Do you have a process? Do you just sit there at your desk and, like, dream?
Or, like, what do you do?
Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, first, I depending on the what the campaign is and who it’s for, one of the first things I always do is just go look at what other people have done. Like, I’ll look at other really, really successful campaigns. Like, if I’m writing about whatever, like, a a energy bar for millennials, then I’ll just go look at other millennial, campaigns in that, whatever that industry is, and really look at what people are gravitating towards, what’s resonating with them, is probably one of the first things I’ll do.
And one reason I’ll do that is because I look at the terms they’re using, especially if it’s, you know, if it’s, the group that I’m not a part of. Like, I’m not a millennial. I do like energy bars. But that’s my first step to getting into that.
And then I will just literally try to talk to people. Like, I’ll go around my office, if I can.
I’ll go online, and I’ll go into Reddit. I’ll start Reddit threads. I’ll go on LinkedIn and literally go to companies, like, you know, like, what Kindbar? Like, I would go to Kindbar and be like, hey.
Can I talk to y’all? Blah blah blah blah. You know? And try to just try to get in conversations with the people that are in that industry and try to get into conversations with the customers for that industry.
And it’s just like having the conversations. Listening to sales calls is another thing, like, I’ve done before too. If you have a company that has a sales arm, listening to sales calls and how those people are talking to your salespeople. Even if they’re complaining, you can pick up on, you know, those messages, but reading between the lines of things they’re saying, how they’re saying it, whatever their vernacular is, those sorts of things.
And it’s really just, like, being a part of those conversations as much as possible.
Awesome. Thank you.
You’re welcome.
Caitlin, what’s your win?
Hello.
My win is I made a reel that I’m, like, very, very excited about, and I think it’s super funny.
And my question is so this is me just being nosy because I’ve only ever worked in startups and then for myself.
So, like, what is, like, the review process, like, in a company like ManyChat? Because I know I’ve just always been very autonomous. There are maybe, like, two stakeholders in, like, the copy that I write who need to, like, review.
So just wondering, like, what the process is in terms of, like, from when the assignment comes in, how that comes in, to how much creativity you get, to who needs to review, like, what happens next.
That’s a really, really good question.
It’s a complicated answer because it depends. It always depends. Right?
There are some things that I’m allowed to just own, and I can literally write the whole thing and send it off to whatever performance or whoever it is.
Meanwhile, there are some things, like, we’re doing a full on website rewrite. So for, something on that level, it literally goes to everybody. So I will get a brief that will say, you know, we wanna rewrite the home page.
Here’s the messaging we like, and my brand person I’m super, super lucky to have this great brand strategist and brand people that will give me a messaging doc and say, hey. Here’s the messaging that we’ve agreed on, for our audience. This is locked in.
And then I’ll take that typically and make a first pass if I can, like, just getting stuff down, getting the, the hierarchy set, the framework to it. Usually, a creative will already kind of know design will know kind of what are my sections, how much room do I have to play with, and I’ll get that. And I’ll punch stuff in. And then, usually, I will immediately take that first draft and get it in front of someone else, for for me.
So So that’s my first check is I’ll get it in front of, like, a social when someone from social, hey. Like, what do you think of this? Like, does anything stand out to you? If they’re cool, they sign off, then I’ll send it usually would be to, my head of content, and he will either if it’s really, really close and just, like, one or two things or or there’s, like, a whatever, a typo somewhere, he’ll fix that.
He might, like, tweak one or two things. And then if he likes it, then he will approve it and send it up to then it will go to header brands and my CMO.
And my head of brand and my CMO will do exactly the same thing. They will each go through it meticulously and make comments, suggestions. It might be in a Figma file or it might be in a a dot, make comments and suggestions. And, really, depending on how close it is at that point, we might just say tweak those and send it.
Or they might say, let’s make another pass. Let’s go another round. And at which point then I’ll get a little bit more into the nitty gritty. So at that point, I’ll usually go to, like, a product manager, and another SME within whatever that product is and be like, hey.
Like, where is this missing?
Here’s our messaging. Like, what am I not hitting on?
And almost always that rounds with the SME or product manager or someone that really, really knows that stuff will get me there. But it goes literally right back to the same process. My head of content, my other brand, and my CMO. And if anyone in there doesn’t like it, he comes back to me.
So it really it just matters. Like, I’ve written full commercials, that were just like, boop, boop, boop. We shot them in a day. We shot we actually shot five ads in one day once.
We did, like, a full ad sprint, and we wrote and shot five ads in one day. Don’t do that. It was crazy. But, yeah, it just it really depends.
And where you are in your career and what you’ve shown you can do and how much buy in you have from leadership. It or there’s so many variables that are gonna affect that. But I will say that is something I tell everybody else that’s new or or new writers is, like, set you set your boundaries and stick to them and make sure that immediately you know, you don’t don’t be offensive and just completely decline stuff, but let people know. Like, hey.
Five o’clock, that’s it. I’m done. I’m not I’m not running anymore stuff. I’m not working with this anymore.
Like, I have a family life, and whatever it is. Whatever your your lines are, that’s one thing. And two, block your time. If you need to deep dive on something, put it on your calendar and say, don’t bother me.
Like, I gotta bust this out.
So suffice. What’s up, I’m sorry. Am I saying that wrong?
I got all excited.
Okay.
So I’ll lower my hand first.
I had a question about just the content and what I believe to be what a lot of people do. So on social, a lot of people use hooks to get your attention, but then they’re, like, always is I don’t know, extravagant or extra.
Do you think we should even be concerned, or should we just create the content?
I’ll let your audience tell you. Do both. Do both. See what your audience interacts with. That’s what I would say to those kind of questions.
I think, you know, this goes back to the UX way that I like to do stuff.
I would much rather make something that I think is good that may not make it more perfect and put it in front of the audience and see what they say.
If they kick it back, then they’re like, what is this? Or people start making comments, then I’m like, alright. That’s right. But sometimes you put that out there, and they’re like, this is awesome.
This is amazing. We like the less produced version of it. We like it just feels like you’re talking to us. It doesn’t feel salesy.
Like, people come back and tell you, like, that’s probably one of the best piece of advice I can give anybody honestly working in marketing is let your customers tell you.
Okay. Yeah. Because I use conversational text for emails all the time. I’m a storytelling based email marketer. And my like, today, I did a I did a email that clearly worked because everyone’s responding to it, where I’ve announced that I got a job, but I’ve been a full time entrepreneur for, like, two two and a half years almost.
Yes. Congratulations.
Thank you. But if you read it, it’s telling a story about how basically one of my clients hired me so that I could do that job all the time, and I love it. But I still have my business too. So it was my email to encourage people to show up to my webinar about side hustles.
And so I was like, so now my business is my side hustle, and my job is my main gig. So it totally worked. People are saying congratulations. People are like, oh, I’m gonna show up tonight and what?
You know? So that really works. But I struggle on social because I I hate having to show up. So I had attended one of our previous sessions where we talked about batching.
Well, we talked about content in general, and the speaker encouraged batching. And I told her, I’m gonna try, but sometimes I just don’t wanna show up and then have to do something for, like, an hour and then I don’t know. It’s something about, like, doing it in real time. So that’s that.
But my win, was I took my Friday feedback and applied it to one of my clients’ emails, and I got emails with, like, two and a half to three and a half percent click rate, which is really big improvement for them. I didn’t make any sales, but thanks to your advice, I also explained to them that these click rates mean the awareness of the events is happening, and they’re just not ready to buy. And then people bought yesterday. So I’m super excited that advice works.
Yeah. And so that’s my win, and thanks for answering my question. This is awesome.
You’re very welcome. Amazing. Good win. Yeah. And good question.
Anybody else have any other questions for Dustin while we have him here?
Caitlin’s back.
One more.
I feel like I might have a couple.
This came from I told, one of my clients that I was, you know, gonna be on a Zoom with a senior copywriter at ManyChat and asked if she had questions and one of her questions because we utilize ManyChat a lot.
But are there wait. What was it? What are some ways that you think people might be underutilizing ManyChat?
Yes.
It really depends on what you’re using it for. I would say just going ahead and signing up, for a pro account is just such a game changer.
The ability to batch things and use, like, the AI automations within there and some of the other things, you know, auto auto follow-up and some of the things that come just with pro are just absolute, like, godsend lifesavers. Like, they, just change everything. And the more and, really, Pro is built to, like, the more you do, the more it does. So, like, if you’re batching out a flow for, you know, five hundred people, you can just use the AI flow builder, and you do it once, and then it’ll do it five hundred times.
You don’t to keep recreating it. So I would say probably the biggest thing people are doing is just not just popping for it, which I get. I ran my own business, and, like, I know, like, my name was super excited at the beginning, and I would not have been able to use ManyChat, but I would say that’s it. Also, being just being more mindful, kinda like we talked about in this presentation.
Like, mindful of how you’re talking to your audience and not being super salesy and making sure that you’re being communicative. And I think that their Internet is really, really going in a way that people that seem like they’re actually interested in fostering real relationship, they’re talking to you real and ask you how you’re doing. Like, that’s gonna go a long way to building relationships. And I think, like, you know, marketing is all about not selling something now, but being front of the mind when somebody wants your product.
And if you’re building those relationships and they’re thinking thinking about you in that way, and they get on Instagram and they see you in their feed, whatever, that’s how you do that. So I would just say, you know, be friendly and be real, and don’t try to sell. Just let the sell happen. You know?
Like, it sounds so cliche or, like, wolf of washery, but, like, just just let this all happen just because you create a relationship.
Cool. Thank you.
The Fatigue-free Daily Pitch
The Fatigue-free Daily Pitch
Transcript
Alright. So this is gonna be, like, super light. I know y’all are already, like, more than busy with what you have in front of you, so this is, like, an extra little sprinkling on top should you choose to add it. So, like, this isn’t, like, more work on top of an already insurmountable level of work, but something that could be helpful and additive to what y’all are already doing.
So, let me get this going.
Before I do, I had, like, the best chat GPT win ever today.
Like, it’s done a lot of amazing things. But, so this morning, like, I went to war with, like, hundreds of weeds that were growing, like, on the side of my house, and I just thought they were, like, nice vegetation, and I never wanted to do anything about it.
But my wife is like, no. You gotta take care of that. So I took care of it. And while I was, like, weeding and going crazy, I had, like, that song in my head.
Like, one that goes, like, that’s that was my battle song as I was doing it, but I didn’t remember what it was called. So, like, I went on Chat GPT, and I literally said, like, what’s that epic song that goes do do do do do do do do? And it actually said, oh, Fortuna. So I’m like, how did you know?
Anyway, however, you’re stuck on that. Trust me because he has answers.
Cool.
So there we go.
Awesome. So fatigue free pitch.
How to use a four by two soft pitch matrix to seamlessly sell in every email, LinkedIn post, and IG caption, which you are doing a lot of and may continue to do a lot of for the foreseeable future. So here’s the situation.
In this June sprint, your call to action a lot, soft pitching a lot. Right? It doesn’t mean you’re hard selling in every piece of content. But in most pieces of content, I reckon you’re having some form of soft call to action, whether it’s a, by the way, or a PS, or if you’d like to know more, etcetera. Right? So that’s what I call a soft pitch, which can get ultra fatiguing if you don’t mix up how that is worded.
So for many years, there was something that the whole coaching and service provider industry went crazy over called the super signature. You probably seen it a million times in your inboxes. It’s essentially that, like, boiler plate never changing. PS, when you’re ready, here’s how to work with me.
Right? And it was always, like, the two or three main offers that person has, and it was always worded in the exact same way, kind of like the spoiler plate that was never changing. Right? And having worked with a lot of these people who were running these super signatures, I would always look at, like, are these actually getting clicked?
Right? Do people actually click on your super signatures? And the click through rates, the link clicks on those were absolutely abysmal and almost nonexistent. It was just taking up space, right, and getting ignored and getting fatigued and turned into white noise.
So we want to mix it up. So today, we’re gonna look at four fresh angles and hooks that you can use in these soft call to actions, for two different types of call to actions, your workshop and your let’s talk, get on my calendar, but don’t let random skid on your calendar. That’s gonna be the caveat to all of this. Filter them.
Filter them. So once again, if you’re just slapping on the same super signature, obviously, at some point, your audience will glaze over it. That’s the tune out. That’s the fatigue.
Your click throughs will flatline if it’s an email, and you’ll miss a gold mine of low effort conversions. Right? And you’ll your content will only achieve some of its goals. Right?
Ultimately, even if we’re there to give value, even if we’re there to establish authority, even if we’re there to build audience and expand reach and own our space and own our thing. Right? Ultimately, we want our content to generate, leads. Right?
We want these our content to bring people into our workshop funnels and get on our calendars. Right? So we are going to add some new flavors to the call to action. Right?
And we’re gonna do so starting with the knowledge that using just a single framing or angle or hook can limit your audience feeling the pull, the urge, or the f. Yes. Right? So some people, some of your readers, some people on your social audiences are motivated most by gain or outcome.
Right? They want something.
Some are motivated by avoiding loss and risk, and some are motivated by FOMO. Right? Seeing what other people are experiencing and what they should be gaining. So this is all pretty basic stuff.
You’ve seen it a million times before. But for some reason, it just doesn’t get applied so much to these soft call to actions. So rule number one, we’re gonna be mixing between your workshop call to action for those mid intent and your book a call for higher intents, right, and avoiding stuffing. So we’re gonna respect the rule of one with our soft CTAs.
So it’s not gonna be the super signature where we give both options.
I would say, like, one call to action for both. Right? So stick with that rule of one, and this is ultimately what it’s gonna look like. Right?
So we’re gonna have this matrix. You’re gonna have, four different call to actions, for your workshop, four different call to actions for your book a call. And, essentially, you’re gonna rotate between these four different types of hooks. Cool.
So let’s dive into all of them. These aren’t super complex or super esoteric, formulas. You probably used many versions of these, but, yeah, we have some templates for you to lean into. So outcome based templates, it could be as simple as if you want desirable result without undesirable trade off.
And that would look like if you want one thousand dollar days without the cortisol spike I’m launching, get on my calendar here. That might be for Abby’s day one Evergreen.
Or you can have number two, imagine result. That’s exactly what I show you inside called Action. Right? So imagine turning every sale into three. That’s what I’ll walk you through in the profit without pressure workshop. Watch it now. Right?
So very simple, very easy to apply. This is an outcome based soft call to action.
Then we move into the risk, loss aversion based templates.
So every time you do x without y, you’re leaving a certain result on the table.
That looks like every course sale you make before installing these three automated sequences is a missed opportunity for an extra five to six plus figures of back end revenue.
Second template would be still haven’t taken core action that could be costing you and list what it cost them. Let’s fix that here. So still haven’t set up your day whenever green funnel, aka the one that keeps working while you’re airplane loading with cucumber slices on your eyes and zero bucks in your inbox. That might be why your sales stop when you do. Let’s change that now.
Then FOMO, case studies, template one, see how client went from struggle to result using your method. See how Jenny went from unpredictable post launch income to an extra hundred and twenty k in back end sales all by putting the post sale profit system in in place. I break it down step by step inside this free workshop. So that would be a call to action for your workshop.
Or the client identifier who takes action now will be enjoying that positive outcome while everyone else has a negative outcome. So the course creators who install their day one evergreen funnel this month will be scaling through summer while everyone else gears up for another high stress web cycle. What kind of want want that kind of piece and profit to see perfect here?
Then finally, last one, identity based templates. So if you’re the kind of identity who values a certain principle, this is for you. If you’re the kind of established online course creator who values steady sales over dopamine chasing launch drama, this free workshop might just be your new favorite thing. Number two, I built this for identity who are done with the old way. So I built this workshop for coaches and course creators who are done selling once and calling it a win. Let’s turn those first signature core sales into forever clients.
And number three, not for everyone, but perfect or then listen. So day one evergreen isn’t for everyone, but it’s perfect for experienced course creators who are done with launch whiplash and ready for calm conversion focus funnels that age like wine, getting more profitable with every month that you apply here.
So, next steps, should you choose them, right, you already have a lot of steps in front of you. But if you choose to integrate this, you can take twenty minutes at some point today, some point this week, and craft those eight call to actions. You can go analog on this, or you could use AI just by loading up the templates I gave you. AI may already be familiar with your offer in your workshop and could probably turn those out in probably five minutes or less. And then you would have that four by two soft pitch matrix. And for every email, LinkedIn post, and add your caption, you could just choose the one, the vibe, the outcome, loss aversion, FOMO, or identity that best matches the tone of your post.
And then if you really want the extra points, yeah, you could keep your call to actions and soft pictures in a simple tracker tracker spreadsheet, and essentially, list, right, the response rate for each. Right? See which ones are winning, see which ones aren’t getting any responses, add new ones. Right?
So if you are creating content with soft pitches, multiple times per week, right, that is many sales opportunities or lead gen opportunities per year. Right? And it would pay to have a bit of a tracker, right, and see which one of these are actually generating more responses. So that’s all I got.
That was really quick, and I want to make sure that I didn’t overwhelm you with more, more, more, more, more, and, hopefully, this is a nice little optional add on to what you’re already doing.
So let me stop sharing and, yeah, be able to talk about this or anything else and or you and your content sprints and business in general.
My pleasure. Cool. I’m curious if Stacy’s back with her coffee.
And I am back with my coffee, and I didn’t mean to ignore you earlier because I just had already walked into the other room when when you asked that question.
I totally get it. So, yeah, can you can you answer it now? Is there, like, a second tier of ingredients?
There is not a second tier of ingredients, but I heard you talk about lion’s mane, and I wanted to add that I can’t take it. It makes me wanna fall asleep.
Interesting. Okay. That’s not too bad. I thought you were gonna say something like, you know, there’s been secret research done somewhere.
No. I don’t know about any secret research. I just tried it, and it just doesn’t work for me.
So it says it’s not like a The Last of Us situation where it’s gonna, like, make me Mhmm. Okay.
Good. No. Your blank your brain’s not gonna explode.
Or Fair.
Alright. Cool.
I was thinking now I have this I have this CTA that I put at the bottom of all my LinkedIn posts.
Mhmm.
And it’s really just it’s short.
And I I’ve been wanting to make variations of it, so I’m very glad I’m very glad of this.
Although it’s mine’s kind of it’s super short, so I don’t know how I’m gonna I don’t know how I’m gonna adapt. But I can take the four I can take the concepts of of, you know, FOMO and loss aversion and all the things and and do it. But it’s not like a PS where it’s a long sentence. You know?
So so it’s, like, intentionally very brief?
Yeah. I well, I’ll pull it up and show you.
Sure.
So there’s one word I really, really dislike in call to actions, and it’s the word interested.
Right? Like, people, I don’t know.
I think Isn’t that the worst?
Interested. Right? Interested question mark. I don’t I don’t get interested about anything. Like, I don’t even know what interest feels like in my body. So when I see that, like I don’t know.
I really prefer, like, if this and that. Right? And the if clause being a situation that I can be like, ah, yes. That is true. Right?
Okay. Here y’all can be my CTA doctor. Here’s what I do at the bottom of my of my posts.
Sweet.
So if you’re, where are we starting? From the if you’re thinking?
From right here. Right here.
Oh, right there. Okay. Hey, l. I’m Stacy. I’m the smartest fuck. Robot named Sassy. She makes brilliant marketers even better at their jobs.
I apply for access at so I love that it’s, like, skim worthy, like, scroll scroll skim. Right? Like, especially on mobile.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s pretty cool.
So how, you know, how to take that? I mean, this is kind of that’s my sort of, like, standard boilerplate. I put it at the at the bottom of, you know, of of every post.
Mhmm.
Yep.
Apply for success. Apply for access at Avicasa.
She makes brilliant marketers even better at their jobs. So I think Like, it’s bigger.
I think the she made This sentence can be the month that that you’re right.
Yeah. That can be the place where I kind of swap it out.
Totally. Exactly. So you can definitely have more specific things. Right? Like, you know, she helped x do y. That would be, you know, a FOMO type one, right, or a case study.
Right.
Right. And then, like, very specific use cases, right, that, like, SaaS excel that. Right? And, like, where that thing would have, you know, ROI in their business if they applied it. Right? So something like that. So, yeah, that would be, like, the one to swap out for sure.
The one sentence right there.
Yes. For sure.
Okay. That works. That works.
And then it’s like is it clear how they apply for access?
It yeah. I I think it is once they go to the website. Yes.
Okay. So that might be a friction point there. Right? Because when someone’s let’s say someone has never seen your profile before, right, and your post got shared or showed up on their feed, right, and they see apply for that. Mhmm. They wouldn’t necessarily know the immediate next step. Right?
Because they’re not gonna be applying the Yeah.
Yeah. So I should probably, I should probably think about changing that to something else. So, I mean, I kind of deliberately engineer friction in there because it’s a whole, you know, it’s a whole part of the thing because it’s it it, but, yeah, I’ll think about that. That’s a good point. Thank you, Brian.
Yeah. Of course.
And I’m all for intentional friction.
I use so much intentional friction in coffee shops, like, putting things between me and tables, and my bags all filled up like I’m living there.
And people still find a way to sit right next to me and and take Zoom calls next to me.
A completely different kind of friction, but yes. Yeah.
Cool. Caitlin, hand up.
I have a question.
This can be kind of for anyone.
So, you know, if these CTAs and I’m my computer died, so I missed a lot of this. But, anyway, with, like, you know, having LinkedIn posts, Instagram posts, or things leading to your workshop with the diagnostic Mhmm.
I, like, am very happy with my workshop. I have a lead from my workshop from some from, like, a warm lead, and it’s a perfect ideal fit. So, obviously, the workshop is doing something right, and it’s designed correctly.
I felt friction recently when so I’m doing, like, freebie swaps. I’m trying to just borrow a bunch of people’s audiences.
And as I’m doing that, I’m feeling resistance of, like, I wonder if I should make a different freebie for the same audience that’s, like, a little bit more valuable.
The things I’m hitting up against is, like, my diagnostic. Like, it very much kinda teaches you a little bit of, the what but not the how.
And, like, right in the beginning, you know, Joe instructs us to, you know, say, hey. If you want to move forward, I’m fifteen k to begin, five k on retainer. So it does feel like, I just feel like it might be off putting for, like, these freebie swap people. Mhmm. Sure. And I’m wondering if anyone here has felt something similar or if you have other freebies that you feel are more so, like, man, this is just a quick win. You know, those types of freebies where it’s really just value, and more of a soft sell or something.
Yeah. So, I mean, it’s potentially a different market.
Right? Like, in the freebie swaps, potentially, I don’t wanna say that with so much certainty.
But, you know so I guess, like, one question would be if you want that to be supportive of, like, your course business, right, or elements of it where, you know, are kind of, like, lower ticket, not necessarily the higher ticket.
So there could be, like, an alignment thing there. Right? And, so, yeah, that’s really kinda, like, my first thought. Right?
It’s, like, lead magnets for who? Right? For, like, that core avatar, right, that has the fifteen k plus five per month to invest. Right?
And, like, what is a lead magnet that is valuable and important to them that’s actually gonna get consumed and get them to take that next action. Right? Because that looks a certain way. Right?
And a lead magnet, that’s going out to a broad general freebie swap list, and those are, like, in my experience, really broad and really general in a mixed bag. Like, you just don’t know what you’re gonna get, and that kinda makes it, like, fun and exciting in a way. Right? It’s like yeah.
It’s, like, kind of like the discount DVD bins from Walmart back in the day, and I’m like, there’s always something good in there if you like fish lawn.
But, no, I I went over engineer for general broad. Right? I really keep it focused on, like, who is that fifteen k client. Right?
And, yes, potentially, like, optimize and create different reviews or lead magnets, but, like, always with the orientation of, like, a, what’s gonna get their attention? What’s what are they gonna open? Right? Like, based on the name of it.
And, yeah, like, it might not be, like, a general broad thing. It might be a very specific tactical thing that is part of your process, right, but then takes, you know, hours for them to do, and they don’t have the skill to do it. Right? And that’s a very clear pathway to them getting on a call. But, yeah, curious about everyone else’s thoughts.
And for, like, some context, if it’s help well, like, it is because I totally get it. Like, I for the longest time, I’m like, these types of, clients, like, they’re not signing up for lead magnets. They’re not blah blah blah. But, some of them are.
And, like, my so, basically, like, the old Facebook ad and Instagram agency that I used to work for, all of them you know, all of those clients are ideal for me. Mhmm. And I know that they’re on their list. So they’re, like, my first kind of collaboration.
Yeah. And, like, the course stuff, that’s, like, a totally different audience. So I have separate freebie swaps going on for those, and those are, like, aspiring freelancers. So those are the course is completely different. It’s almost like I have two different business, which is why I have two different Instagram accounts and all that stuff.
Yeah. I wonder, like, before you change the content of a freebie, right, like, if you would consider, like, changing the name of a freebie, right, to see if one you know, essentially testing the name. Right? Because, like, that’s what’s gonna get that first click.
Yeah. I I think my name will get clicks. It’s like Mhmm. The little known fix that tripled my clients’ webinar sales or something like that or tripled conversions.
Mhmm. It’s more so, like, I the experience that this person is gonna have once they’re watching the workshop.
Mhmm. It feels a little salesy to me, and it feels a little like, okay. Because you essentially like, you talk about these twelve questions or these twelve things that you need to know about your customer’s journey, and you rattle them off.
But, like, I’m a little lost of how to find them. You talk about surveys. You give one example, but none of the other ones.
So, like, I just kinda feel like Mhmm.
I like, especially if it’s, like, the relationship of someone’s list that I care about. Like, I it’s just it’s just like that that sort of thing.
So that’s what I’m kinda playing with, like, maybe having a different rating.
So one that one that goes, like, deeper, more specific, and more tactical. Right? Like and gives right?
Yeah. Like or yeah. Like like you said, like, gives them some quick win. Like Mhmm. Like, one little piece of this entire process of a maximized funnel and optimization. Like, just, like, one thing that they could do. Like so I’m wondering.
I mean, I love that. Right? Because, like, it it still creates a gap. Right? And, like, the gapping, for example, you know, you could say, like, the one the one slide you need in your webinar pitch that no one has.
Right? And it’s essentially like a closed slide. Right? Like, you know, your unique way of closing on a webinar.
Right? And it’s like, they have that, and they can add it to their webinar slide deck, but it’s not the whole thing. Right? And it’s like, they can get a bump and get improvement and just have these see your expertise and authority on that and be like, oh, she taught me something new and this tracks and this makes sense.
Right? Yeah.
Obviously, I used to do that a lot with, like, launch email templates. Right? Like, had a lot of those as freebies, and it’s, like, totally quick win. Right?
Like, half an hour, new templates, send it to your list, get a win. Right? But it’s not a whole sequence. It’s not a whole automation.
Right? And there’s still a gap of wanting more. So yeah, I love it. Yeah.
Cool. Alright. Thanks for validating. Because sometimes it’s like, is this a mindset thing, or is this, like, a legit valid thing?
So if that Mhmm.
Helps. Totally.
I have some ideas too. Like, if you can’t think of what to give away for free, you could always, like people love SOPs. Right? So, like, give them give them something that kinda feels hard to give away, I guess. Because I think that then you’ll know they’re gonna actually get, like, a win because it’s hard for you to give it away.
But, obviously, it needs to still expose, like, another problem that they’re gonna run into. You know? So if you give them a SOP for, let’s say, you have, jobs to be done or something, give them an SOP for that. Well, they’re not gonna wanna go out and do those interviews. Right?
Something like that. I like the template idea as well or that webinar template idea and checklists as well. So those are just a few things that came to mind. But I think that if you look at your diagnostic and reverse engineer, like, okay.
Well, what problems are they gonna run into with jobs to be done interviews? Can you solve one of those small problems? Like, hey. When you’re doing this, whatever comes up, here’s, here’s, like, a quick win on how to overcome that issue.
You know what I mean?
I I can’t think of it off the top of my head, but, hopefully, that makes sense.
No. That approach is really smart. The approach makes perfect sense and gives me ideas, like, right away. So thank you. That’s really good.
Sweet. Any other, questions for today?
Most only is by Stacy’s camera quality. It’s pretty solid. What are you running there?
My camera is a Logitech BRIO. Really? And yeah. And and my background is a looping video.
Okay. That’s the secret. I see.
But yeah. And I have a a a real green screen behind me. It’s a but it’s just like a green tablecloth that’s hanging.
I think it was thirteen dollars on Amazon.
Well done.
Because, actually, behind me is a giant wide, wide format printer, which is very unattractive, as a backdrop. So, I actually created this whole background setup even pre pandemic so that I so that I could have a a good background.
Love it. Cool. Cool.
Sweet. Well, if there are no other questions, can definitely save y’all thirty minutes. I know you probably have busy days. So, yeah, let me know. Are we feeling complete for today?
Or Gonna go, make some new CTAs.
Worksheet
Transcript
Alright. So this is gonna be, like, super light. I know y’all are already, like, more than busy with what you have in front of you, so this is, like, an extra little sprinkling on top should you choose to add it. So, like, this isn’t, like, more work on top of an already insurmountable level of work, but something that could be helpful and additive to what y’all are already doing.
So, let me get this going.
Before I do, I had, like, the best chat GPT win ever today.
Like, it’s done a lot of amazing things. But, so this morning, like, I went to war with, like, hundreds of weeds that were growing, like, on the side of my house, and I just thought they were, like, nice vegetation, and I never wanted to do anything about it.
But my wife is like, no. You gotta take care of that. So I took care of it. And while I was, like, weeding and going crazy, I had, like, that song in my head.
Like, one that goes, like, that’s that was my battle song as I was doing it, but I didn’t remember what it was called. So, like, I went on Chat GPT, and I literally said, like, what’s that epic song that goes do do do do do do do do? And it actually said, oh, Fortuna. So I’m like, how did you know?
Anyway, however, you’re stuck on that. Trust me because he has answers.
Cool.
So there we go.
Awesome. So fatigue free pitch.
How to use a four by two soft pitch matrix to seamlessly sell in every email, LinkedIn post, and IG caption, which you are doing a lot of and may continue to do a lot of for the foreseeable future. So here’s the situation.
In this June sprint, your call to action a lot, soft pitching a lot. Right? It doesn’t mean you’re hard selling in every piece of content. But in most pieces of content, I reckon you’re having some form of soft call to action, whether it’s a, by the way, or a PS, or if you’d like to know more, etcetera. Right? So that’s what I call a soft pitch, which can get ultra fatiguing if you don’t mix up how that is worded.
So for many years, there was something that the whole coaching and service provider industry went crazy over called the super signature. You probably seen it a million times in your inboxes. It’s essentially that, like, boiler plate never changing. PS, when you’re ready, here’s how to work with me.
Right? And it was always, like, the two or three main offers that person has, and it was always worded in the exact same way, kind of like the spoiler plate that was never changing. Right? And having worked with a lot of these people who were running these super signatures, I would always look at, like, are these actually getting clicked?
Right? Do people actually click on your super signatures? And the click through rates, the link clicks on those were absolutely abysmal and almost nonexistent. It was just taking up space, right, and getting ignored and getting fatigued and turned into white noise.
So we want to mix it up. So today, we’re gonna look at four fresh angles and hooks that you can use in these soft call to actions, for two different types of call to actions, your workshop and your let’s talk, get on my calendar, but don’t let random skid on your calendar. That’s gonna be the caveat to all of this. Filter them.
Filter them. So once again, if you’re just slapping on the same super signature, obviously, at some point, your audience will glaze over it. That’s the tune out. That’s the fatigue.
Your click throughs will flatline if it’s an email, and you’ll miss a gold mine of low effort conversions. Right? And you’ll your content will only achieve some of its goals. Right?
Ultimately, even if we’re there to give value, even if we’re there to establish authority, even if we’re there to build audience and expand reach and own our space and own our thing. Right? Ultimately, we want our content to generate, leads. Right?
We want these our content to bring people into our workshop funnels and get on our calendars. Right? So we are going to add some new flavors to the call to action. Right?
And we’re gonna do so starting with the knowledge that using just a single framing or angle or hook can limit your audience feeling the pull, the urge, or the f. Yes. Right? So some people, some of your readers, some people on your social audiences are motivated most by gain or outcome.
Right? They want something.
Some are motivated by avoiding loss and risk, and some are motivated by FOMO. Right? Seeing what other people are experiencing and what they should be gaining. So this is all pretty basic stuff.
You’ve seen it a million times before. But for some reason, it just doesn’t get applied so much to these soft call to actions. So rule number one, we’re gonna be mixing between your workshop call to action for those mid intent and your book a call for higher intents, right, and avoiding stuffing. So we’re gonna respect the rule of one with our soft CTAs.
So it’s not gonna be the super signature where we give both options.
I would say, like, one call to action for both. Right? So stick with that rule of one, and this is ultimately what it’s gonna look like. Right?
So we’re gonna have this matrix. You’re gonna have, four different call to actions, for your workshop, four different call to actions for your book a call. And, essentially, you’re gonna rotate between these four different types of hooks. Cool.
So let’s dive into all of them. These aren’t super complex or super esoteric, formulas. You probably used many versions of these, but, yeah, we have some templates for you to lean into. So outcome based templates, it could be as simple as if you want desirable result without undesirable trade off.
And that would look like if you want one thousand dollar days without the cortisol spike I’m launching, get on my calendar here. That might be for Abby’s day one Evergreen.
Or you can have number two, imagine result. That’s exactly what I show you inside called Action. Right? So imagine turning every sale into three. That’s what I’ll walk you through in the profit without pressure workshop. Watch it now. Right?
So very simple, very easy to apply. This is an outcome based soft call to action.
Then we move into the risk, loss aversion based templates.
So every time you do x without y, you’re leaving a certain result on the table.
That looks like every course sale you make before installing these three automated sequences is a missed opportunity for an extra five to six plus figures of back end revenue.
Second template would be still haven’t taken core action that could be costing you and list what it cost them. Let’s fix that here. So still haven’t set up your day whenever green funnel, aka the one that keeps working while you’re airplane loading with cucumber slices on your eyes and zero bucks in your inbox. That might be why your sales stop when you do. Let’s change that now.
Then FOMO, case studies, template one, see how client went from struggle to result using your method. See how Jenny went from unpredictable post launch income to an extra hundred and twenty k in back end sales all by putting the post sale profit system in in place. I break it down step by step inside this free workshop. So that would be a call to action for your workshop.
Or the client identifier who takes action now will be enjoying that positive outcome while everyone else has a negative outcome. So the course creators who install their day one evergreen funnel this month will be scaling through summer while everyone else gears up for another high stress web cycle. What kind of want want that kind of piece and profit to see perfect here?
Then finally, last one, identity based templates. So if you’re the kind of identity who values a certain principle, this is for you. If you’re the kind of established online course creator who values steady sales over dopamine chasing launch drama, this free workshop might just be your new favorite thing. Number two, I built this for identity who are done with the old way. So I built this workshop for coaches and course creators who are done selling once and calling it a win. Let’s turn those first signature core sales into forever clients.
And number three, not for everyone, but perfect or then listen. So day one evergreen isn’t for everyone, but it’s perfect for experienced course creators who are done with launch whiplash and ready for calm conversion focus funnels that age like wine, getting more profitable with every month that you apply here.
So, next steps, should you choose them, right, you already have a lot of steps in front of you. But if you choose to integrate this, you can take twenty minutes at some point today, some point this week, and craft those eight call to actions. You can go analog on this, or you could use AI just by loading up the templates I gave you. AI may already be familiar with your offer in your workshop and could probably turn those out in probably five minutes or less. And then you would have that four by two soft pitch matrix. And for every email, LinkedIn post, and add your caption, you could just choose the one, the vibe, the outcome, loss aversion, FOMO, or identity that best matches the tone of your post.
And then if you really want the extra points, yeah, you could keep your call to actions and soft pictures in a simple tracker tracker spreadsheet, and essentially, list, right, the response rate for each. Right? See which ones are winning, see which ones aren’t getting any responses, add new ones. Right?
So if you are creating content with soft pitches, multiple times per week, right, that is many sales opportunities or lead gen opportunities per year. Right? And it would pay to have a bit of a tracker, right, and see which one of these are actually generating more responses. So that’s all I got.
That was really quick, and I want to make sure that I didn’t overwhelm you with more, more, more, more, more, and, hopefully, this is a nice little optional add on to what you’re already doing.
So let me stop sharing and, yeah, be able to talk about this or anything else and or you and your content sprints and business in general.
My pleasure. Cool. I’m curious if Stacy’s back with her coffee.
And I am back with my coffee, and I didn’t mean to ignore you earlier because I just had already walked into the other room when when you asked that question.
I totally get it. So, yeah, can you can you answer it now? Is there, like, a second tier of ingredients?
There is not a second tier of ingredients, but I heard you talk about lion’s mane, and I wanted to add that I can’t take it. It makes me wanna fall asleep.
Interesting. Okay. That’s not too bad. I thought you were gonna say something like, you know, there’s been secret research done somewhere.
No. I don’t know about any secret research. I just tried it, and it just doesn’t work for me.
So it says it’s not like a The Last of Us situation where it’s gonna, like, make me Mhmm. Okay.
Good. No. Your blank your brain’s not gonna explode.
Or Fair.
Alright. Cool.
I was thinking now I have this I have this CTA that I put at the bottom of all my LinkedIn posts.
Mhmm.
And it’s really just it’s short.
And I I’ve been wanting to make variations of it, so I’m very glad I’m very glad of this.
Although it’s mine’s kind of it’s super short, so I don’t know how I’m gonna I don’t know how I’m gonna adapt. But I can take the four I can take the concepts of of, you know, FOMO and loss aversion and all the things and and do it. But it’s not like a PS where it’s a long sentence. You know?
So so it’s, like, intentionally very brief?
Yeah. I well, I’ll pull it up and show you.
Sure.
So there’s one word I really, really dislike in call to actions, and it’s the word interested.
Right? Like, people, I don’t know.
I think Isn’t that the worst?
Interested. Right? Interested question mark. I don’t I don’t get interested about anything. Like, I don’t even know what interest feels like in my body. So when I see that, like I don’t know.
I really prefer, like, if this and that. Right? And the if clause being a situation that I can be like, ah, yes. That is true. Right?
Okay. Here y’all can be my CTA doctor. Here’s what I do at the bottom of my of my posts.
Sweet.
So if you’re, where are we starting? From the if you’re thinking?
From right here. Right here.
Oh, right there. Okay. Hey, l. I’m Stacy. I’m the smartest fuck. Robot named Sassy. She makes brilliant marketers even better at their jobs.
I apply for access at so I love that it’s, like, skim worthy, like, scroll scroll skim. Right? Like, especially on mobile.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s pretty cool.
So how, you know, how to take that? I mean, this is kind of that’s my sort of, like, standard boilerplate. I put it at the at the bottom of, you know, of of every post.
Mhmm.
Yep.
Apply for success. Apply for access at Avicasa.
She makes brilliant marketers even better at their jobs. So I think Like, it’s bigger.
I think the she made This sentence can be the month that that you’re right.
Yeah. That can be the place where I kind of swap it out.
Totally. Exactly. So you can definitely have more specific things. Right? Like, you know, she helped x do y. That would be, you know, a FOMO type one, right, or a case study.
Right.
Right. And then, like, very specific use cases, right, that, like, SaaS excel that. Right? And, like, where that thing would have, you know, ROI in their business if they applied it. Right? So something like that. So, yeah, that would be, like, the one to swap out for sure.
The one sentence right there.
Yes. For sure.
Okay. That works. That works.
And then it’s like is it clear how they apply for access?
It yeah. I I think it is once they go to the website. Yes.
Okay. So that might be a friction point there. Right? Because when someone’s let’s say someone has never seen your profile before, right, and your post got shared or showed up on their feed, right, and they see apply for that. Mhmm. They wouldn’t necessarily know the immediate next step. Right?
Because they’re not gonna be applying the Yeah.
Yeah. So I should probably, I should probably think about changing that to something else. So, I mean, I kind of deliberately engineer friction in there because it’s a whole, you know, it’s a whole part of the thing because it’s it it, but, yeah, I’ll think about that. That’s a good point. Thank you, Brian.
Yeah. Of course.
And I’m all for intentional friction.
I use so much intentional friction in coffee shops, like, putting things between me and tables, and my bags all filled up like I’m living there.
And people still find a way to sit right next to me and and take Zoom calls next to me.
A completely different kind of friction, but yes. Yeah.
Cool. Caitlin, hand up.
I have a question.
This can be kind of for anyone.
So, you know, if these CTAs and I’m my computer died, so I missed a lot of this. But, anyway, with, like, you know, having LinkedIn posts, Instagram posts, or things leading to your workshop with the diagnostic Mhmm.
I, like, am very happy with my workshop. I have a lead from my workshop from some from, like, a warm lead, and it’s a perfect ideal fit. So, obviously, the workshop is doing something right, and it’s designed correctly.
I felt friction recently when so I’m doing, like, freebie swaps. I’m trying to just borrow a bunch of people’s audiences.
And as I’m doing that, I’m feeling resistance of, like, I wonder if I should make a different freebie for the same audience that’s, like, a little bit more valuable.
The things I’m hitting up against is, like, my diagnostic. Like, it very much kinda teaches you a little bit of, the what but not the how.
And, like, right in the beginning, you know, Joe instructs us to, you know, say, hey. If you want to move forward, I’m fifteen k to begin, five k on retainer. So it does feel like, I just feel like it might be off putting for, like, these freebie swap people. Mhmm. Sure. And I’m wondering if anyone here has felt something similar or if you have other freebies that you feel are more so, like, man, this is just a quick win. You know, those types of freebies where it’s really just value, and more of a soft sell or something.
Yeah. So, I mean, it’s potentially a different market.
Right? Like, in the freebie swaps, potentially, I don’t wanna say that with so much certainty.
But, you know so I guess, like, one question would be if you want that to be supportive of, like, your course business, right, or elements of it where, you know, are kind of, like, lower ticket, not necessarily the higher ticket.
So there could be, like, an alignment thing there. Right? And, so, yeah, that’s really kinda, like, my first thought. Right?
It’s, like, lead magnets for who? Right? For, like, that core avatar, right, that has the fifteen k plus five per month to invest. Right?
And, like, what is a lead magnet that is valuable and important to them that’s actually gonna get consumed and get them to take that next action. Right? Because that looks a certain way. Right?
And a lead magnet, that’s going out to a broad general freebie swap list, and those are, like, in my experience, really broad and really general in a mixed bag. Like, you just don’t know what you’re gonna get, and that kinda makes it, like, fun and exciting in a way. Right? It’s like yeah.
It’s, like, kind of like the discount DVD bins from Walmart back in the day, and I’m like, there’s always something good in there if you like fish lawn.
But, no, I I went over engineer for general broad. Right? I really keep it focused on, like, who is that fifteen k client. Right?
And, yes, potentially, like, optimize and create different reviews or lead magnets, but, like, always with the orientation of, like, a, what’s gonna get their attention? What’s what are they gonna open? Right? Like, based on the name of it.
And, yeah, like, it might not be, like, a general broad thing. It might be a very specific tactical thing that is part of your process, right, but then takes, you know, hours for them to do, and they don’t have the skill to do it. Right? And that’s a very clear pathway to them getting on a call. But, yeah, curious about everyone else’s thoughts.
And for, like, some context, if it’s help well, like, it is because I totally get it. Like, I for the longest time, I’m like, these types of, clients, like, they’re not signing up for lead magnets. They’re not blah blah blah. But, some of them are.
And, like, my so, basically, like, the old Facebook ad and Instagram agency that I used to work for, all of them you know, all of those clients are ideal for me. Mhmm. And I know that they’re on their list. So they’re, like, my first kind of collaboration.
Yeah. And, like, the course stuff, that’s, like, a totally different audience. So I have separate freebie swaps going on for those, and those are, like, aspiring freelancers. So those are the course is completely different. It’s almost like I have two different business, which is why I have two different Instagram accounts and all that stuff.
Yeah. I wonder, like, before you change the content of a freebie, right, like, if you would consider, like, changing the name of a freebie, right, to see if one you know, essentially testing the name. Right? Because, like, that’s what’s gonna get that first click.
Yeah. I I think my name will get clicks. It’s like Mhmm. The little known fix that tripled my clients’ webinar sales or something like that or tripled conversions.
Mhmm. It’s more so, like, I the experience that this person is gonna have once they’re watching the workshop.
Mhmm. It feels a little salesy to me, and it feels a little like, okay. Because you essentially like, you talk about these twelve questions or these twelve things that you need to know about your customer’s journey, and you rattle them off.
But, like, I’m a little lost of how to find them. You talk about surveys. You give one example, but none of the other ones.
So, like, I just kinda feel like Mhmm.
I like, especially if it’s, like, the relationship of someone’s list that I care about. Like, I it’s just it’s just like that that sort of thing.
So that’s what I’m kinda playing with, like, maybe having a different rating.
So one that one that goes, like, deeper, more specific, and more tactical. Right? Like and gives right?
Yeah. Like or yeah. Like like you said, like, gives them some quick win. Like Mhmm. Like, one little piece of this entire process of a maximized funnel and optimization. Like, just, like, one thing that they could do. Like so I’m wondering.
I mean, I love that. Right? Because, like, it it still creates a gap. Right? And, like, the gapping, for example, you know, you could say, like, the one the one slide you need in your webinar pitch that no one has.
Right? And it’s essentially like a closed slide. Right? Like, you know, your unique way of closing on a webinar.
Right? And it’s like, they have that, and they can add it to their webinar slide deck, but it’s not the whole thing. Right? And it’s like, they can get a bump and get improvement and just have these see your expertise and authority on that and be like, oh, she taught me something new and this tracks and this makes sense.
Right? Yeah.
Obviously, I used to do that a lot with, like, launch email templates. Right? Like, had a lot of those as freebies, and it’s, like, totally quick win. Right?
Like, half an hour, new templates, send it to your list, get a win. Right? But it’s not a whole sequence. It’s not a whole automation.
Right? And there’s still a gap of wanting more. So yeah, I love it. Yeah.
Cool. Alright. Thanks for validating. Because sometimes it’s like, is this a mindset thing, or is this, like, a legit valid thing?
So if that Mhmm.
Helps. Totally.
I have some ideas too. Like, if you can’t think of what to give away for free, you could always, like people love SOPs. Right? So, like, give them give them something that kinda feels hard to give away, I guess. Because I think that then you’ll know they’re gonna actually get, like, a win because it’s hard for you to give it away.
But, obviously, it needs to still expose, like, another problem that they’re gonna run into. You know? So if you give them a SOP for, let’s say, you have, jobs to be done or something, give them an SOP for that. Well, they’re not gonna wanna go out and do those interviews. Right?
Something like that. I like the template idea as well or that webinar template idea and checklists as well. So those are just a few things that came to mind. But I think that if you look at your diagnostic and reverse engineer, like, okay.
Well, what problems are they gonna run into with jobs to be done interviews? Can you solve one of those small problems? Like, hey. When you’re doing this, whatever comes up, here’s, here’s, like, a quick win on how to overcome that issue.
You know what I mean?
I I can’t think of it off the top of my head, but, hopefully, that makes sense.
No. That approach is really smart. The approach makes perfect sense and gives me ideas, like, right away. So thank you. That’s really good.
Sweet. Any other, questions for today?
Most only is by Stacy’s camera quality. It’s pretty solid. What are you running there?
My camera is a Logitech BRIO. Really? And yeah. And and my background is a looping video.
Okay. That’s the secret. I see.
But yeah. And I have a a a real green screen behind me. It’s a but it’s just like a green tablecloth that’s hanging.
I think it was thirteen dollars on Amazon.
Well done.
Because, actually, behind me is a giant wide, wide format printer, which is very unattractive, as a backdrop. So, I actually created this whole background setup even pre pandemic so that I so that I could have a a good background.
Love it. Cool. Cool.
Sweet. Well, if there are no other questions, can definitely save y’all thirty minutes. I know you probably have busy days. So, yeah, let me know. Are we feeling complete for today?
Or Gonna go, make some new CTAs.
Chaos-proof Content Systems
Chaos-proof Content Systems
Transcript
Alright. Cool. So my session today is all about staying consistent with your content even when chaos rings. So I don’t know if, you know, many of you knew this, but earlier no.
Maybe that was last month. It was last month, that we we were in a in the middle of a war with our neighboring country, and we had, yeah, we had blackouts. We had missiles. We had the works.
Right?
And business was running as usual and content was being pushed as usual. So when I was telling Joanna this, she was like, okay. That is what you need to talk about.
Because I had a few other things, you know, lined up about content and, you know, I know you’re in the middle of this huge content sprint thing. So she was like, no. No. No.
You need to kinda talk about what do you do to make that happen. And here’s the thing. I’m gonna caveat all of this by saying you do not have to do this. Sometimes you do need to take a step back from sharing your content.
Some sometimes you need to do take a step back from, quote unquote, being consistent, and that’s okay.
But our systems in place that you could you there are systems that you could put in place that could help you navigate sometimes when life gets, yeah, chaotic.
And there’s nothing more chaotic than being thrown into a warlike situation, or a war, actually. So that’s it. Very excited.
Hope y’all should have your worksheets. I do.
I have I will be sharing my the worksheet, and then I’ll show you certain things that you can do really quickly with AI to make it, you know, easy for you to stay consistent. We’re like, honestly, like, in this day and age, AI is so, so good at helping you play the consistency game. So if you’re not leveraging it, I would highly, highly recommend you do that.
Alright. Let’s let me share a screen.
And This is a quick session. Essentially, I wanted you all to kinda just start thinking about these systems, not just for the challenge month, but as part of your business, as part of your marketing.
Because for a business to be resilient, you need to put a plan in place. There will be curveballs. Like, mine can I deal with chronic illness?
So we don’t know when that would happen. Life happens.
Yes. Sometimes you need to kind of you know, you have work come in, which means your work gets pushed. And if you’re doing your social or sales or your reels or whatever on a, you know, on a day by day basis or even on a week by week basis, some sometimes those things don’t happen, and one week can easily become two weeks and two weeks can yeah. Anyways, you want your business visibility to not have to take a back seat unless, of course, you consciously decide. That’s why I kind of caveat you know, gave you the caveat earlier.
But the fact is the moment you stop marketing your business is the moment you stop seeing sales come in. It may not happen instantly.
It you know, You could easily coast for a month, maybe two months. There was a year when, you know, we did the bare minimum because we were going through a really, really, you know, really busy season of both business and life, and we just did the bare minimum.
But if you just kinda press pause, you’ll notice the results. Like, you’ll see the results in a few months. So you wanna set up those systems. You want to be a business that markets every day or at least it looks like it markets every day, because I’ve had so many people tell, tell me or or my on podcast and, you know, even, like, just sending us a message.
How do you do it? Do you work with someone? So in the past, we did have a social media manager. Right now, we don’t.
We’ve not had a social media manager for now two years.
And if you if you wanna outsource it, outsource it. But what we found was, like, you know, if you set up these systems in place, it’s that much easier. And it also helps you to at least in my case, I like to have a pulse on what’s working with our audience, test different things out, test different formats out, test different so it just helps me kind of stay in the group. I’m not saying you need to do it on your own, but point is even if you hire someone, you want them to put these systems in place so that when they leave, someone else can easily come in and take over.
So you wanna build a content through chaos system for all of these reasons.
I want you to take a few minutes, and you can put this in the chat. But just take a few seconds to kind of, like, reality check. Like, what is your content system consist what is your what usually derails your content system? Like, you have the best of intentions. You know you you’ve got goals. You know you wanna be seen and, like, you know, all of these different platforms.
Think about it. Like, what usually throws that curveball?
Jot it down. Even in the worksheet, jot it down on a post it or put it in the chat.
But it’s really important to know that if something in the past is derailed, consistency, it will or it may derail consistency in the future as well. It just kind of helps you keep an eye on that.
Energy levels. Yeah. We will. I hear you completely mine are not so much cycle dependent as it is more, essentially, I have a chronic health condition, which kind of impacts my energy level. So completely, completely agree. And and, I mean, yeah, I get that.
But it’s good that you know that this is, you know, this is a factor because now now you can plan accordingly. Anyone else wanna share? You could unmute yourself. You could put it in the chat if you feel comfortable sharing.
I’m happy to share. I hope you can’t hear the treadmill.
Mine is always client work for sure. And then the other thing is when I feel like I’m creating and it’s not I don’t know. When I feel a lot of uncertainty around what I’m sharing.
So I don’t and it really, what it comes down to then is not setting aside time to reflect on, like, the day or the week of what’s been going on with my client work so that then I could create content that’s inspired by what is going on in client work and using that, repurposing that kind of stuff.
So And that’s Mhmm.
That’s really the other one.
And then really basic. Anything video related, when I do it, I just don’t have a system where it’s, like, really fast. I just need something really fast. And unless I’m doing live video, which I haven’t done in years, I let it expand way too much.
Great.
I want you to wait. Write that down. I know you’re on a treadmill, but write that down, Jessica, because you wanna keep an eye on it because that’s what’s gonna help you set up systems. You need to know what is the like, once you know the needy area, like, this is the area that needs you, you can set up systems for it.
So that’s what you wanna keep this in mind. Alright. That is great to know. Anyone else?
It’s okay. You don’t wanna share? Can move on. Cool.
That is cool. I don’t wanna put anyone on the spot here. Okay. Cool. So here’s what you wanna do.
You wanna put you wanna have a four part system in place, and this would help you, Jessica, with your repurposing team. This would help, you know, place a little bit the energy thing. And anyone else who’s got any other reason why they, you know, sometimes just get derailed when it comes to being consistent with their content. And when I’m saying content, it’s not just social media.
You also wanna look at things like it could be, you know, creating a blog post, creating a YouTube video, creating something that’s more long lasting than just, say, something that’s gonna be on, you know, on a platform for basically, be seen for a few seconds. So you would this is, like, for all your content marketing period.
This is the four step process, the system that we have in place.
One is repurposing. I am a huge, huge fan of repurposing. I think I did a session on on on our system way back in the day, but Ross did, you know, more recent sessions. So please review that to kind of figure out your own thing. But my goal with every piece of content that I create is to get at least five, if not more. I aim for seven, but sometimes, like, five is just good enough. And if you are if you are sending an email out, that email, if you’re on LinkedIn, should be repurposed into a LinkedIn caption.
If you’re on Instagram, it should be repurposed into an Instagram carousel.
If you have a blog, you could repurpose it into a blog post. And I am not like I’m just saying these things. Like, these are things that I have actually done all the time.
So get into the mindset that you wanna create once, but you wanna, you know, repurpose it for as long as possible. Now here’s the other thing. Repurposing is not just by format. Repurposing is also by time. So you can take an email that you wrote last year and repurpose it into a mini training or into a blog post this year.
So I’ll tell you how you can do that in just a bit, but that’s the mindset you need to have. You are not going to create content once and be done with it. No. Every piece of content you create, get in the just at that minute, think about it. Okay. I may I usually start with a core piece of content, which is usually an email or a blog post.
Sometimes, because I do a lot of testing, big threads is where I’m, like, utterly unhinged. I’m so happy they brought threads.
They introduced threads because it’s where I test a lot of my content ideas. I just see if something really catches on, but it’s something really catches on because I don’t have we don’t have, like, a huge presence there. But if I find, like, a lot of people engaging with it or whatever, I will expand that maybe into an email or into a LinkedIn caption or something else. But the point is, I generally start with either an email or a blog post. You can choose your piece of content, your core piece of content, which is the one that you probably will be spending the most time on. Right? So you wanna start there and then you wanna go, and see, okay, what else can I do with it?
So, yeah, I’m not gonna spend a ton of time on repurposing, but I definitely want you to get into the mindset of creating once and then distributing it or repurposing it at least five to seven different times or different formats.
Batching, high energy periods. This is this is me and this is we will like, when you have when you know you are going you’re you’re in a high energy period, batch create. Get again, what something, all of us need to remember, this was a mindset shift that I personally had to make was that, especially because we started with social media management as business owners. Like, I mean, like, Mike and I, our first business not first business.
Our initial, industry was, you know, social media management. So for me to shift gears and think about it more as a job and not, like, the business itself was big. So it’s something that all of the industry need to remind yourself. Social media is a marketing job.
Social media is not your business. So regardless of anybody’s list, if you feel that you are more creative during a certain period or you have more time during a certain period, please batch create posts, and please batch create posts that are more evergreen for your audience.
So in in my case, I generally create posts on Mondays, and I have I create posts for two weeks at a time minimum.
If I’m on a repurposing spree, there are certain weeks when I know I’m busy because I have a lot of client projects, I would just repurpose.
Literally take something that I posted on Facebook maybe two years ago, not just two weeks ago. Like I said, you don’t want to just look at time. So just take something that you posted few months, few weeks, few years ago, repurpose that. You’d if you don’t have the time, then just but batch create everything, put it into whatever system you have so that you can, you know, go ahead and schedule it out, which will be the next thing we talk about. But badging and repurposing AI is your core support. If you do not have another person creating your content for you, start using AI.
It’s such a great AI to have, such a great assistant to have because you especially for repurposing because you already are giving it your content. And if you, like me, love building GPTs, then please build GPTs for yourself. I’ll, like, share a couple of examples of how I kind of speed create stuff as well. And then preschedule.
This was something, again, big mindset shift here as someone who came from a social media management background.
I used to believe in posting live. Right? I was and and the social media manager we were working with earlier was also post live. So, you know, it was just kind of embedded in me that, no. We need to post live. And then I when I made the mindset shift to the fact that this is a marketing job and social media management is not our business, and then I realized I can preschedule stuff.
So if you haven’t already or social media, please invest in a scheduler or use the native scheduler that now most of the platforms offer. So, but get in get comfortable with it. You’ll will it affect your reach? Honestly, I haven’t seen it make a difference.
This was my biggest worry that as it is, you know, reach is horrible.
Algorithms are pickle and blah blah blah blah. The point is I haven’t seen a difference. And I’ve been now using a scheduler for, I would say, easily a year maybe, and literally no difference. So I would say go ahead and preschedule it because especially if you want to have, like you know, be able to deal with the chaos that sometimes that control.
That does not mean you can’t post, like, you can’t. I do it all the time as well. It’s just that you wanna be prepared for when you don’t have the energy, don’t have the mental bandwidth, don’t have the time to create anything for your business.
So what you can go ahead, fill out this later. Like, think about what strategy would you wanna use.
What strategy what I wanna kind of focus on is what strategy have you tried before and that you feel hasn’t worked for you because then we can look at how can you kind of improve it. So it could be batching. I tried batching. It’s horrible. I don’t like it. Didn’t work for me or whatever. Is there a strategy that you’ve used that didn’t work for you?
For me, I think batching is this wonderful idea that I want to do, but I always get stuck with not taking advantage of trends. Like, in my head, I’m like, oh, if you batch this content and then next week, the, I don’t know, treasury makes this announcement and you hadn’t talked about that because you didn’t know it was coming, then you have all this content that doesn’t speak to what’s happening.
And then I feel, like, stuck. Right? So and then I also tell myself these foolish things like, oh, it’s always better to do it in the moment because you’re most creative and yada yada. But the reality is, the more I do this, the more content I automate, even my emails, funnels, and stuff like that, I find myself making money in my sleep. And then I’m like, this is exciting. Like, I forgot that was running. Right?
So Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So it’s the thing I tell myself, you should do more of. And if you’re gonna batch batch evergreen content. Right? So then that way fine. It’s always relevant.
But I struggle with procrastination in general. So even batching more than two or three videos is hard for me because I’m like, no. Something’s gonna come up that you need to, like, trend or you need to talk to that comes up.
So I I just struggle with it, but I have used AI to, like, give me some topic ideas. And for a while, that’s what I was doing is AI tells me what to talk about, and then I make the videos, when I’m makeup’s done and I feel good.
And then I would send them all to the editors, and then every week, they would put something out. And then I get tired and not wanna be in front of the computer again, and the video’s running out. And it’s just like so I just Right.
To see it.
I’m like, and then I blame it on summer. Like, oh, we’re gonna take a break for the summer.
The summer’s been happening for six months now.
Yeah.
Okay. That’s really, really I I think that’s, like, being so honest about, you know, how what batching can feel like sometimes. I know, you could try a couple of different things, and I’ve played with a lot of different systems for batching, like, different processes for batching.
You could do a minimum viable batching round where you say, okay. I’m just gonna like, for instance, to your point, I do the same thing. I batch record my reels, and that’s why you’ll see me in probably the same outfit. Like, I do not even wanna be bothered by changing outfits, which I know a lot of people do, but I’m like, yeah. No. Not happening.
So you could try that. So you could do okay. I’m gonna have a minimum viable batch in round where I’m just gonna do, say, three reels, three carousels, and three feed posts. I’m just using Instagram as an example, but then you could do whatever.
You know? Or you could you could batch tasks. So you could say, okay. I’m gonna batch scripting and caption writing today, and I’m gonna batch filming and design for tomorrow so that I’m not, like, kind of spending.
So the point is, for us who have a lot of things to juggle and may or may not have or, you know, a team to outsource to, that team is a really good friend. We just need to find a rhythm that works for us because and like I said, you can still create in the moment, you know, so the trends or anything else you wanna post live. Like, there is no rule that says you cannot post twice in a day.
So if if you have a batch post that’s scheduled and it’s gonna go out, it’s, like, like, all our posts got at six PM or that’s local time and whatever that’s in, you know, in US or Australian or Canadian time. My point is, I know it goes out at a certain time, but if I feel like, oh, I wanna post something live, I could go ahead and do that anyways, maybe either earlier or later or whatever. So find a batching rhythm that works for you because it is seriously, like, I have tested so many things.
It just kinda works really well to have all of this lined up.
You just need to find something that works. You could batch tasks. You could do, you know, just set a a timer or, like, a number, and I’m just gonna do these. And then we’ll kind of you know? And then the next week, I’ll do three more. So it could just kind of, you know, make it part of your of your weekly cadence.
For me, like I said, Mondays are the days I do all of the creation, so I’m, like, always a few weeks ahead. So even if I, like you know, there’s a Monday when I wake up and I’m like, yeah. I’m not in the mood. I can take it take a Monday off. The one rule I do have, and I don’t know which whose book this was in, and this is, like, just my rule. But the one rule I have is I will not skip two Mondays in a row.
Something I read in someone’s book is, like, don’t let like, don’t skip two days in a row or something like that, but I just make it, like, two Mondays in a row because then I know I’m gonna be really behind and then playing catch up, which is not a good place to be safe. But if, say, one Monday, I I have, like, a lot happening or we have to go out somewhere or whatever or I’m not just I don’t have the energy for it, I will skip a Monday because I’m always a few weeks ahead. Does that help? And help me say your name correctly. Is it help me say it. Akwania.
Akwania. Okay. Akwania. Did I say that correctly?
Yes. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. Thanks. Awesome. You’re welcome. So think about it. Think about what you’re gonna try, and then I’d love to hear from you.
Okay. Someone did put something in chat. Did you? Because my chats disappeared.
Does anyone else wanna share if you’ve tried a system that didn’t work?
It just doesn’t work for me if I combine writing with design. Anything where design is on top of something else.
Sometimes recording, but, yeah, I can’t I’ve realized as you were talking, I was like, nope. Design has to be a separate day or something because this is not gonna work for me.
Yeah. Yeah. So just split the tasks, you know, and just make your life simpler. So that’s a really good realization.
And, yeah, would be good to test out, Jessica.
Match design. Right? Design recall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So don’t do everything in one day.
Definitely. Just split it up.
Legal. My main thing is I go through creating another at the end of the day, and I’m absolutely not wanting to write the caption and post it. I lose steam. That’s not working for me. Okay.
And that is where AI can help you.
Create it, write it, and then use the AI to write the captions for it.
It’s you know?
So when you say creating it, do you mean creating the video or the like, what what do you create to begin with?
Scripting recording edit. Excellent. So then just take your script and put it into chat or call it and let them know that, okay, you wanted to, you know, you want a LinkedIn caption for it or accompanying email for it or yeah. So that is where you wanna make AI part of your process as well.
So script it, record it, edit it, but then the next day get you know? And if you’re doing a lot of these in one day, maybe you could also split it up. The next day, just start by putting your scripts into into AI, whether you use chat, cloud, or whatever, and then have them come up with the captions that you can then just, you know, edit and find, you know, fine tune and whatever.
Is that is that something you could test out?
Okay. Good. Awesome.
Alright. Cool. So how do we execute all of this? Simple.
I have a very robust content library because we’ve been creating content for years now, but there is you I mean, I don’t want you to feel overwhelmed. Like, okay. I don’t wanna start. Like, I have so much floating all over.
I don’t wanna start now. I would say start today. It does not matter if you haven’t been cataloging everything. Start today.
You want, you want a database, basically. So ours is in a Google Sheet, so not very fancy, but it has all of our emails, all of our social media posts, all of the blog posts, different sheets for everything.
This is, however, something that we, few years ago, had our content manager create for us, so we’ve just now kept updating it.
But, ideally, you want a database which has all your content because that is what would help you repurpose without feeling overwhelmed. And you’re not scrambling, and you’re not looking for content in, like, fifty different places. You want everything in one place, time consuming job, but start today. You just start with the next post you want.
Like, okay. I’m gonna start and you know? So I’m sending an email out. I have a tab for emails.
I’m gonna drop the link to the email there.
I published something on Instagram. Just start there. You can build the backlog later or, you know, just make, like, a weekend project or something like that. But, basically, try and have a content library.
It would make your life a lot simpler. We also use a Notion dashboard. You don’t have to use Notion. You could use whatever, but this is where our content calendar is created. I am working on an AI workflow where whenever I post something in Notion, it would update in the Google spreadsheet.
Yeah. But until that happens, right now, it’s a manual job. But because I create our content in this Notion calendar like, in my Notion dashboard, and then just put it into put the link once it’s published into the Google, Google spreadsheet.
Why do we do two things?
Couple of reasons.
I could put everything into Notion, but I’m just a little wary of having everything in one place. Although we do have a lot of our business, like, pretty much our business brain lives in Notion.
But I like the ease of using the Google spreadsheet with links. It’s also easier to, you know, create workflows that use a Google worksheet. So I was just kinda keeping that in mind too. So, yeah, you could just have one thing. You could have two things, honestly, but it really does not matter, and do not overthink this.
You can always change this, you know, these systems later.
The goal for you is to have a central hub for your content because that is what will help you with the repurposing bit.
So in Notion, I can go back, like, four I think we have we’ve had this now for four years. I can go back four years, look up items for, like, oh, and we have our Notion, dashboard was is custom created. So we even have things like, you know, oh, I can choose a particular offer that a post was promoting, so I can look it up look up content by offer. So even when I’m doing, like, promotions, I don’t sometimes create stuff from scratch because I can just go into, oh, they’re promoting intentionally profitable. I’m just gonna pull up all the past social media posts and just repurpose them. If especially because, like, you know, if I know, okay, this one worked really well because I can then cross reference it with the with the Google Sheet and just find it on the relevant platform.
You don’t have to do all of this again. Big caveat. But what you do have to do, I’d highly highly recommend I’m very, you know, very rarely do I say things like you do have to do this, is to have a central hub for your content.
How nerdy you get with it, totally your call. I like having a lot of, you know, different resources and different things to kinda pull at. So our dashboard is pretty nerdy, but, yeah, you don’t need all of that. You need a central hub for your content. Next, we also use a custom CD social GPT. We have several. So I’ll show you the one with LinkedIn, in a bit.
But the beauty of having the custom GPT is that it I don’t have to start from scratch with prompting it. Like, I love prompting. I do a lot of it, but I like having a GPT because I can just say, okay. Create my LinkedIn post from this.
You know? And it’s got my voice. It’s got my style. It has everything it needs to know about creating good LinkedIn posts.
Still need to rework it. You still need to give it your touch, but it, you know, makes your job a lot easier. So I’m pretty sure Shenzhen sessions on creating GPTs.
But if not, like, you could also use if you use prod or or chat, you could also use projects. For the same thing. I prefer GPTs because, like, GPTs make that faster. I like using projects for a particular, particular business. Content bistro is a project.
And then because I have, like, various various stuff in it, but it knows content history inside out.
That said, you could try you know, if you don’t wanna get into creating a GPT, you can always use a project as well. Just call it, like okay. Make sure that project you’re dedicated to your social content, really speeds things up. And then template libraries.
Template libraries for images. This is I’m not a designer, and I and, yes, you can use AI for ImageGen as well, but I I still find that way time more time consuming than just pulling a template and customizing it. So use your templates in Canva. If you have a designer or even if you don’t have a designer, you could just kind of hire someone to create, like, branded templates for you that you can customize.
Becomes so much easier for you to share those carousels and all of that. All you do is just change the text, or you could invest in the template libraries.
I I use a couple of them. Pixystalk is one of them, and then I also use your social team. It’s not in this. I I’ll add it in this one second so you can I don’t know if it’ll update for y’all, but, yeah, it’s called your social team?
I’ve used their templates for years. Highly, highly recommend. For those of you who are on Instagram and who like making reels and would like to get trending music or trends for reels to capitalize on, I would recommend b squared social. They have a reels live for you, a reels subscription.
Those are the you don’t need a lot, but these are, like, just, you know, a few things that we have personally invested and used and huge time savers, just like, you know, makes it really, really easy for you to do that. And then schedulers. I use Publer for cross platform ease. So Publer is the scheduler we use.
It posts for us on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on threads.
I also use the Instagram native scheduler, for sometimes for reels and even sometimes for carousel posts and things like that.
Literally makes no difference. Like, I don’t use Publer for reels because it sends it does not publish them automatically. You it gives sends you a push notification. I think later does that too. I’m not sure. But either which ways, invest in a scheduler for your social media for sure.
Okay. Cool. Those are the systems. I would love for you to take some time to start thinking about what systems tools would make the biggest difference to you for your chaos free content system, what you have already set up, what’s working, what’s not working. If you’ve tried a tool in the past, not working, move on.
Honestly, like, don’t waste too much time on it.
If you say you sign up for a template library. These are, like, monthly subscriptions. We have signed up for the year because we’ve used them for a longer time. But let’s say you sign up for a template library. You don’t like the templates.
Don’t renew. Just, you know, you know, just kind of move on. Don’t spend too much time on any of the tools that aren’t serving you. Again, remember, social media management or is not really your core job.
It’s part of the marketing that you do for your business. Right? So you don’t wanna waste a ton of time on it. You wanna be really, really smart about the time you use so that it brings you the most amount of ROI.
And setting up systems like this would help you do that by helping you be more consistent. And we all of us, mature business owners, we all know consistency does pay off, and it does compound. And that’s the very nature of social as well. So, yeah, here’s what I would love for y’all to take some time to really think about.
And, honestly, like, if you feel up to it, I would love for you to share it with me. In Slack. It’s like, what is your chaos callback system? What what are you gonna lean on when life starts to life, basically?
Now I’m gonna share a couple of other things so that you can see exactly how some of these systems work. Okay?
Right. Later does not allow tagging or first comment in LinkedIn. Yep. Publer does. So I love Publer.
Metricool, Michelle suggested Metricool, so I haven’t played with that. But, you could get that a spin too. That was one of the, you know, that was one of the tools that was recommended for us as well. I just knew a lot of people on who are using Publer, and we’re happy with it. So I just went with that.
But yeah. Yes. Like a Publer is great.
Okay. Cool. I wanna show you certain things. So first up is the workbook that I sent you all.
Right? I said I did not clear a slide deck for it. Now I’m sure a lot some of you at least would have content like this workbook or a worksheet or a PDF or an email even that you’ve created in the past that’s just kind of lying in your archives, maybe forgotten. What you can do with this is a few things.
One, you could, I’m gonna share screen again, you could use something like gamma to turn it into a slide deck. Gamma is super cool. If you’ve not used gamma, it’s it basically creates everything like slide decks or social posts and, you know, visuals. You can I could turn this workbook into a carousel in gamma as well?
I turned it in I just took the workbook.
You literally just say, turn it into a presentation or turn it into a, what’s it called, a social media presentation.
And it would automatically let me just exit so you can see.
It just automatically like, I did nothing for this. It just turns it into a slide deck that you can then record. It becomes a little workshop that you could, you know, send to your email list instead of writing an email. One day, you could just record it on Loom and send it over.
I did this with I tried it with Canva as well. Canva did not give me a a really good result. Canva AI, for presentations is not that great. Canva blows it out of the water.
So that’s one way of repurposing it. Look through your like, if you’re committed to sending an email every day, does not mean you need to write the email. Is there something that you could repurpose? Could you turn it into a presentation, record a ten minute long video, and say, hey.
Today, I recorded something for you. And there you go. You created something new out of something old. Brilliant.
And then this is the, this is the the LinkedIn GPT four CB. So I just uploaded the PDF here. I said, turn this real quick into a compelling LinkedIn caption. That’s the benefit of having a GPT.
I don’t have to say, you’re a talented LinkedIn copywriter. You’ve been trained by so I don’t have to give it context. I don’t have to describe role. I don’t have to give it anything other than turn it.
I don’t have to talk about my voice. Nothing. So I don’t have to, you know, give it those long extensive prompts.
It just, yeah, turns it into a caption.
This was one. And then this is you know, it was like, okay. You could use this to teach, but I don’t want to teach. So I was like, okay.
Expand on one of the points from the workbook and create a standalone caption around it. So it just said, let’s expand on the point of it today. You don’t need more content. You need more mileage from what you already have.
Most entrepreneurs, blah blah blah. Like, I’ve not made any changes to this. So is it great? No.
But can it get become great? Yes. And will it help me kind of, you know, share my message, stay consistent?
Yes. So, again, remember, we are not in we’re not you’re going to use social media through the goal of becoming viral. We’re gonna use social media with the goal of building up our presence with the goal of attracting the right fit prospects. That’s our goal. So whether this make helps me go viral or not, I don’t care.
All I care is that if someone reads and goes, okay. Yeah. This makes sense.
Right?
I need to speak to you about creating a repurposing system for myself. That goal accomplished.
So those are just you know, like, I wanted y’all to see all of this so you can,
see how simple it is to use AI, make it a part of your daily workflow so you can start, you know, being consistent without it taking a ton of time. Jessica, love, the idea of turning a digital of turning a workbook or turning a past training into oh, yeah. Okay. Gamma. Yeah. Gamma is my favorite.
I love it so much. It’s yeah.
You can do so many things with it.
Again, is it brilliant? No. But can you customize it? It’s great. Oh, another really cool use of gamma is to use it to create almost branded templates for your LinkedIn or other carousels because you can customize themes.
You can customize the theme. Like, this theme is, like, just a general theme that I took from there, but you can let me see if I can just open it up. Hang on.
Alright.
Let’s see.
We have some time if you wanna see. What if I can so you you know, when you come to Gamma, it’ll have something like this. Create with AI, paste in text, you know, whatever. So I could say generate, and we could do social.
And you could do let’s say, let’s do four cards and always poke crate.
Let’s say okay. This is good. Copywriting one zero one. The good, the bad, and the print worthy.
These are example problems. This is not my problem. Right? So if you create, it’ll create generate outline.
And now what you can do is, you know, once you do this, you choose a theme. So when you choose a theme, you could do view more.
Right? And then you can go custom, and you can custom it customize it, and then you can just choose that custom theme every time you’re creating it. But even if you don’t okay.
Okay.
This is our
this is this is one of our custom teams. Let’s just choose something else. Let’s just choose this,
And I think, yeah, that’s that’s good.
Okay.
Cool.
If you wanna adjust content, you can choose brief, medium, detailed. You can choose what images you want. Let’s just choose, yeah, images.
I wanna choose do they have ideogram?
That’s a plus, not longer. Let’s do
function and done.
So where’s my generate button gone?
It’s hiding my data, but, basically, if you click generate that one. I don’t know how it’s
The Zoom toolbar is hitting my generate button. Yeah. Good.
It is. Cool. There you go. It will create, like, a complete carousel for you, and you can then just click on anything you want to change, and you can go ahead and do that.
You can remove accent image. It’s a horrible one. You can play around with it. Point is don’t let you know, don’t overthink your consistency plan.
Think about keeping a content library.
Think about getting the most out of every piece of content you create, and definitely, definitely integrate AI into your content workflow.
You can turn everything into content. So, go ahead. Do yeah. It would make life so much, so much simpler. That’s pretty much how most of our content gets created, is posted, and how it looks like we’re always everywhere when in reality, we are not, creating content all the time.
Cool?
Questions?
And don’t it doesn’t have to be questions only about social. It could be questions about anything. Like, you’ve got, like, copy, you’ve got a client thing, whatever.
Systems.
Anything.
No questions?
I have a question.
Mhmm.
Actually, I’m gonna follow-up. I think I asked you in another channel. Way back when when you did mention sharing I am switching topics completely.
Sharing some of your or maybe a a picture of all of your deliverables with a new lead and how you said, like, after I share that, it’s pretty rare to get or you’ve never gotten a no after they see everything. Yeah. I was would you mind talking about that? Like, one, of course, I’m assuming you have to get permission from the client.
Right? And but what does it actually look like? What are you you know, what’s the design of it? Does that make sense?
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. So, essentially, what we wanna do is so let’s say a client comes to us for launch copy.
Right? Now in their head, they’re like, okay. I’m gonna get a sales rep. I’m gonna get email, etcetera, etcetera.
And very few clients, even in this day and age, understand, say, what goes into research because it’s like, yeah, what would you be doing? Right? So I, like, walk them through the, through the research process, and then, of course, I show them what their copy is also gonna look like.
When I walk them through the research process, I have a new client kit folder just because that has the that has samples of everything that I would wanna show on a call, which would mean I show them what the messaging recommendations report looks like. I show them what competitor research looks like. I show them what, you know, what my ecore system mapping visual looks like.
When they see all of that visually, there is zero resistance. Then for the copy process itself, I show them I don’t show them the Google Doc. I let them know that, hey. You’ll be getting the copy in a Google Doc so that we can make edits, etcetera, etcetera. But then once the copy is finalized, our designer is gonna wireframe it for you. So then I show them what the wireframes look like.
I have all of this in, like, a folder. I just open up the folder. I wanna walk them through all the different elements.
It’s that simple.
Cool. Thank you.
Does that help?
Just basic yeah. It does.
So I’ll just put, like, a Google folder together and have, like, for example, the my book audit system notes the whole thing, walk them through that, walk them through how you know, an example of the PR messaging doc Yes.
Yes.
Create for clients. Okay. Yep. That’s great.
You don’t yeah. You don’t even need the whole thing. You just need to kinda show them, like, okay. This is what it looks like.
So they’re like, oh, okay. Because otherwise, you’re just using words that they, in all likelihood, don’t understand, and seeing it helps them see. Oh, so when you in so which is why when I open up the best stream recommendations report, I’m like, okay. You know, all the interviews, the copy kickoff call, the questionnaire, you can see all of that comes into this.
And this is what and so when they see that, oh, everything’s organized like this. This is what it looks like. Then they’re like, yeah. That makes sense.
I was gonna say something else that came to mind about this part of the process.
It’ll come I have a follow-up question for you.
Yeah. Go ahead.
So okay. So the one piece and this isn’t for every project, but I’m thinking it could be a lot, is the production piece. So, of course, a lot of people, don’t realize the, oh, like, you have to set this up on Amazon KDP, but then I might have to use this other tool. And then, you know, like, kind of that back end kind of stuff.
Mona, do you think it would be do I just share with them maybe my metadata document where the has all their keywords and categories that they’d be inputting in to those platforms and kinda say, no.
This is the back end stuff. I guess I’m just kind of there’s so much back end, not necessarily deliverable, but you have to do it and you have to do it correctly. Otherwise, you know, your book might be live and you didn’t even realize it.
Yeah. So you may not wanna, like, kind of you wanna take a call here and see. You don’t want information to be so much that your client feels like, okay. This is a lot. But at the same time, you don’t want them walking away thinking, yeah, I can do this on my own.
Right? Exactly. That’s that balance. So I’m like, ugh.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you you may have to kind of walk bigger that balance out, but I’m thinking oh, okay.
I just hang on. I just remember who I was wanting to tell you. It’s like you had asked also about, you know, do I have to get permission for a client from clients to share this? So our contract has a clause that shares that I can use anything that I created, you know, as part of presentations or, you know, any which ways I want on, like, on social and things like that as long as it’s not disclosing any confidential information. So if I’m, like, sharing an email that, you know, that I wrote for a client, I tend to blur out anything that, you know, is proprietary.
Okay.
Okay. Coming back to what you said, I would say for the back end system stuff, you may wanna have almost like a visual kind of a prison. Like, not showing them the actual thing, but just have, like, almost like a like a slide deck thing that shows, like, all the different things that could go wrong maybe or or that you that should, you know, that are included without getting into too much of, like, oh, you know, it’s a lot, that kind of thing. So if it’s if they’re, like, five parts to the back end process, I would probably just have, like, a single or maybe at the most two slides Mhmm.
Which would show visually, you know, like, just a visual small visual showing, you know, this is what metadata looks like and, you know, this is what we make this is what make sure, you know, that we we’re putting into the Amazon KDP thing or whatever is the other tool, etcetera, etcetera. But you don’t wanna give away anything, a, that is probably secret sauce, and b, that may end up overwhelming the client and make them feel like, okay. Now this is way too much.
So you may wanna kind of I think in your case, instead of stand alone things to walk them through, you may just probably need almost like a like a deck Okay. That shows them, yeah, what’s included. And we can we can kind of look at that.
Yeah.
Okay. Great. Thank you. Yeah. With examples of what it looks like to, you know, bring you on.
Yeah. Yes. Okay. Thank you.
Cool. You’re welcome.
Acquitting it. Do you have any questions?
Nope. All good.
Alright. Cool. Thank you.
You’re welcome. Cool. So, yeah, gonna sign off and then see y’all in Slack.
Bye. Thanks.
Bye. Bye.
Worksheet
Worksheet
Transcript
Alright. Cool. So my session today is all about staying consistent with your content even when chaos rings. So I don’t know if, you know, many of you knew this, but earlier no.
Maybe that was last month. It was last month, that we we were in a in the middle of a war with our neighboring country, and we had, yeah, we had blackouts. We had missiles. We had the works.
Right?
And business was running as usual and content was being pushed as usual. So when I was telling Joanna this, she was like, okay. That is what you need to talk about.
Because I had a few other things, you know, lined up about content and, you know, I know you’re in the middle of this huge content sprint thing. So she was like, no. No. No.
You need to kinda talk about what do you do to make that happen. And here’s the thing. I’m gonna caveat all of this by saying you do not have to do this. Sometimes you do need to take a step back from sharing your content.
Some sometimes you need to do take a step back from, quote unquote, being consistent, and that’s okay.
But our systems in place that you could you there are systems that you could put in place that could help you navigate sometimes when life gets, yeah, chaotic.
And there’s nothing more chaotic than being thrown into a warlike situation, or a war, actually. So that’s it. Very excited.
Hope y’all should have your worksheets. I do.
I have I will be sharing my the worksheet, and then I’ll show you certain things that you can do really quickly with AI to make it, you know, easy for you to stay consistent. We’re like, honestly, like, in this day and age, AI is so, so good at helping you play the consistency game. So if you’re not leveraging it, I would highly, highly recommend you do that.
Alright. Let’s let me share a screen.
And This is a quick session. Essentially, I wanted you all to kinda just start thinking about these systems, not just for the challenge month, but as part of your business, as part of your marketing.
Because for a business to be resilient, you need to put a plan in place. There will be curveballs. Like, mine can I deal with chronic illness?
So we don’t know when that would happen. Life happens.
Yes. Sometimes you need to kind of you know, you have work come in, which means your work gets pushed. And if you’re doing your social or sales or your reels or whatever on a, you know, on a day by day basis or even on a week by week basis, some sometimes those things don’t happen, and one week can easily become two weeks and two weeks can yeah. Anyways, you want your business visibility to not have to take a back seat unless, of course, you consciously decide. That’s why I kind of caveat you know, gave you the caveat earlier.
But the fact is the moment you stop marketing your business is the moment you stop seeing sales come in. It may not happen instantly.
It you know, You could easily coast for a month, maybe two months. There was a year when, you know, we did the bare minimum because we were going through a really, really, you know, really busy season of both business and life, and we just did the bare minimum.
But if you just kinda press pause, you’ll notice the results. Like, you’ll see the results in a few months. So you wanna set up those systems. You want to be a business that markets every day or at least it looks like it markets every day, because I’ve had so many people tell, tell me or or my on podcast and, you know, even, like, just sending us a message.
How do you do it? Do you work with someone? So in the past, we did have a social media manager. Right now, we don’t.
We’ve not had a social media manager for now two years.
And if you if you wanna outsource it, outsource it. But what we found was, like, you know, if you set up these systems in place, it’s that much easier. And it also helps you to at least in my case, I like to have a pulse on what’s working with our audience, test different things out, test different formats out, test different so it just helps me kind of stay in the group. I’m not saying you need to do it on your own, but point is even if you hire someone, you want them to put these systems in place so that when they leave, someone else can easily come in and take over.
So you wanna build a content through chaos system for all of these reasons.
I want you to take a few minutes, and you can put this in the chat. But just take a few seconds to kind of, like, reality check. Like, what is your content system consist what is your what usually derails your content system? Like, you have the best of intentions. You know you you’ve got goals. You know you wanna be seen and, like, you know, all of these different platforms.
Think about it. Like, what usually throws that curveball?
Jot it down. Even in the worksheet, jot it down on a post it or put it in the chat.
But it’s really important to know that if something in the past is derailed, consistency, it will or it may derail consistency in the future as well. It just kind of helps you keep an eye on that.
Energy levels. Yeah. We will. I hear you completely mine are not so much cycle dependent as it is more, essentially, I have a chronic health condition, which kind of impacts my energy level. So completely, completely agree. And and, I mean, yeah, I get that.
But it’s good that you know that this is, you know, this is a factor because now now you can plan accordingly. Anyone else wanna share? You could unmute yourself. You could put it in the chat if you feel comfortable sharing.
I’m happy to share. I hope you can’t hear the treadmill.
Mine is always client work for sure. And then the other thing is when I feel like I’m creating and it’s not I don’t know. When I feel a lot of uncertainty around what I’m sharing.
So I don’t and it really, what it comes down to then is not setting aside time to reflect on, like, the day or the week of what’s been going on with my client work so that then I could create content that’s inspired by what is going on in client work and using that, repurposing that kind of stuff.
So And that’s Mhmm.
That’s really the other one.
And then really basic. Anything video related, when I do it, I just don’t have a system where it’s, like, really fast. I just need something really fast. And unless I’m doing live video, which I haven’t done in years, I let it expand way too much.
Great.
I want you to wait. Write that down. I know you’re on a treadmill, but write that down, Jessica, because you wanna keep an eye on it because that’s what’s gonna help you set up systems. You need to know what is the like, once you know the needy area, like, this is the area that needs you, you can set up systems for it.
So that’s what you wanna keep this in mind. Alright. That is great to know. Anyone else?
It’s okay. You don’t wanna share? Can move on. Cool.
That is cool. I don’t wanna put anyone on the spot here. Okay. Cool. So here’s what you wanna do.
You wanna put you wanna have a four part system in place, and this would help you, Jessica, with your repurposing team. This would help, you know, place a little bit the energy thing. And anyone else who’s got any other reason why they, you know, sometimes just get derailed when it comes to being consistent with their content. And when I’m saying content, it’s not just social media.
You also wanna look at things like it could be, you know, creating a blog post, creating a YouTube video, creating something that’s more long lasting than just, say, something that’s gonna be on, you know, on a platform for basically, be seen for a few seconds. So you would this is, like, for all your content marketing period.
This is the four step process, the system that we have in place.
One is repurposing. I am a huge, huge fan of repurposing. I think I did a session on on on our system way back in the day, but Ross did, you know, more recent sessions. So please review that to kind of figure out your own thing. But my goal with every piece of content that I create is to get at least five, if not more. I aim for seven, but sometimes, like, five is just good enough. And if you are if you are sending an email out, that email, if you’re on LinkedIn, should be repurposed into a LinkedIn caption.
If you’re on Instagram, it should be repurposed into an Instagram carousel.
If you have a blog, you could repurpose it into a blog post. And I am not like I’m just saying these things. Like, these are things that I have actually done all the time.
So get into the mindset that you wanna create once, but you wanna, you know, repurpose it for as long as possible. Now here’s the other thing. Repurposing is not just by format. Repurposing is also by time. So you can take an email that you wrote last year and repurpose it into a mini training or into a blog post this year.
So I’ll tell you how you can do that in just a bit, but that’s the mindset you need to have. You are not going to create content once and be done with it. No. Every piece of content you create, get in the just at that minute, think about it. Okay. I may I usually start with a core piece of content, which is usually an email or a blog post.
Sometimes, because I do a lot of testing, big threads is where I’m, like, utterly unhinged. I’m so happy they brought threads.
They introduced threads because it’s where I test a lot of my content ideas. I just see if something really catches on, but it’s something really catches on because I don’t have we don’t have, like, a huge presence there. But if I find, like, a lot of people engaging with it or whatever, I will expand that maybe into an email or into a LinkedIn caption or something else. But the point is, I generally start with either an email or a blog post. You can choose your piece of content, your core piece of content, which is the one that you probably will be spending the most time on. Right? So you wanna start there and then you wanna go, and see, okay, what else can I do with it?
So, yeah, I’m not gonna spend a ton of time on repurposing, but I definitely want you to get into the mindset of creating once and then distributing it or repurposing it at least five to seven different times or different formats.
Batching, high energy periods. This is this is me and this is we will like, when you have when you know you are going you’re you’re in a high energy period, batch create. Get again, what something, all of us need to remember, this was a mindset shift that I personally had to make was that, especially because we started with social media management as business owners. Like, I mean, like, Mike and I, our first business not first business.
Our initial, industry was, you know, social media management. So for me to shift gears and think about it more as a job and not, like, the business itself was big. So it’s something that all of the industry need to remind yourself. Social media is a marketing job.
Social media is not your business. So regardless of anybody’s list, if you feel that you are more creative during a certain period or you have more time during a certain period, please batch create posts, and please batch create posts that are more evergreen for your audience.
So in in my case, I generally create posts on Mondays, and I have I create posts for two weeks at a time minimum.
If I’m on a repurposing spree, there are certain weeks when I know I’m busy because I have a lot of client projects, I would just repurpose.
Literally take something that I posted on Facebook maybe two years ago, not just two weeks ago. Like I said, you don’t want to just look at time. So just take something that you posted few months, few weeks, few years ago, repurpose that. You’d if you don’t have the time, then just but batch create everything, put it into whatever system you have so that you can, you know, go ahead and schedule it out, which will be the next thing we talk about. But badging and repurposing AI is your core support. If you do not have another person creating your content for you, start using AI.
It’s such a great AI to have, such a great assistant to have because you especially for repurposing because you already are giving it your content. And if you, like me, love building GPTs, then please build GPTs for yourself. I’ll, like, share a couple of examples of how I kind of speed create stuff as well. And then preschedule.
This was something, again, big mindset shift here as someone who came from a social media management background.
I used to believe in posting live. Right? I was and and the social media manager we were working with earlier was also post live. So, you know, it was just kind of embedded in me that, no. We need to post live. And then I when I made the mindset shift to the fact that this is a marketing job and social media management is not our business, and then I realized I can preschedule stuff.
So if you haven’t already or social media, please invest in a scheduler or use the native scheduler that now most of the platforms offer. So, but get in get comfortable with it. You’ll will it affect your reach? Honestly, I haven’t seen it make a difference.
This was my biggest worry that as it is, you know, reach is horrible.
Algorithms are pickle and blah blah blah blah. The point is I haven’t seen a difference. And I’ve been now using a scheduler for, I would say, easily a year maybe, and literally no difference. So I would say go ahead and preschedule it because especially if you want to have, like you know, be able to deal with the chaos that sometimes that control.
That does not mean you can’t post, like, you can’t. I do it all the time as well. It’s just that you wanna be prepared for when you don’t have the energy, don’t have the mental bandwidth, don’t have the time to create anything for your business.
So what you can go ahead, fill out this later. Like, think about what strategy would you wanna use.
What strategy what I wanna kind of focus on is what strategy have you tried before and that you feel hasn’t worked for you because then we can look at how can you kind of improve it. So it could be batching. I tried batching. It’s horrible. I don’t like it. Didn’t work for me or whatever. Is there a strategy that you’ve used that didn’t work for you?
For me, I think batching is this wonderful idea that I want to do, but I always get stuck with not taking advantage of trends. Like, in my head, I’m like, oh, if you batch this content and then next week, the, I don’t know, treasury makes this announcement and you hadn’t talked about that because you didn’t know it was coming, then you have all this content that doesn’t speak to what’s happening.
And then I feel, like, stuck. Right? So and then I also tell myself these foolish things like, oh, it’s always better to do it in the moment because you’re most creative and yada yada. But the reality is, the more I do this, the more content I automate, even my emails, funnels, and stuff like that, I find myself making money in my sleep. And then I’m like, this is exciting. Like, I forgot that was running. Right?
So Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So it’s the thing I tell myself, you should do more of. And if you’re gonna batch batch evergreen content. Right? So then that way fine. It’s always relevant.
But I struggle with procrastination in general. So even batching more than two or three videos is hard for me because I’m like, no. Something’s gonna come up that you need to, like, trend or you need to talk to that comes up.
So I I just struggle with it, but I have used AI to, like, give me some topic ideas. And for a while, that’s what I was doing is AI tells me what to talk about, and then I make the videos, when I’m makeup’s done and I feel good.
And then I would send them all to the editors, and then every week, they would put something out. And then I get tired and not wanna be in front of the computer again, and the video’s running out. And it’s just like so I just Right.
To see it.
I’m like, and then I blame it on summer. Like, oh, we’re gonna take a break for the summer.
The summer’s been happening for six months now.
Yeah.
Okay. That’s really, really I I think that’s, like, being so honest about, you know, how what batching can feel like sometimes. I know, you could try a couple of different things, and I’ve played with a lot of different systems for batching, like, different processes for batching.
You could do a minimum viable batching round where you say, okay. I’m just gonna like, for instance, to your point, I do the same thing. I batch record my reels, and that’s why you’ll see me in probably the same outfit. Like, I do not even wanna be bothered by changing outfits, which I know a lot of people do, but I’m like, yeah. No. Not happening.
So you could try that. So you could do okay. I’m gonna have a minimum viable batch in round where I’m just gonna do, say, three reels, three carousels, and three feed posts. I’m just using Instagram as an example, but then you could do whatever.
You know? Or you could you could batch tasks. So you could say, okay. I’m gonna batch scripting and caption writing today, and I’m gonna batch filming and design for tomorrow so that I’m not, like, kind of spending.
So the point is, for us who have a lot of things to juggle and may or may not have or, you know, a team to outsource to, that team is a really good friend. We just need to find a rhythm that works for us because and like I said, you can still create in the moment, you know, so the trends or anything else you wanna post live. Like, there is no rule that says you cannot post twice in a day.
So if if you have a batch post that’s scheduled and it’s gonna go out, it’s, like, like, all our posts got at six PM or that’s local time and whatever that’s in, you know, in US or Australian or Canadian time. My point is, I know it goes out at a certain time, but if I feel like, oh, I wanna post something live, I could go ahead and do that anyways, maybe either earlier or later or whatever. So find a batching rhythm that works for you because it is seriously, like, I have tested so many things.
It just kinda works really well to have all of this lined up.
You just need to find something that works. You could batch tasks. You could do, you know, just set a a timer or, like, a number, and I’m just gonna do these. And then we’ll kind of you know? And then the next week, I’ll do three more. So it could just kind of, you know, make it part of your of your weekly cadence.
For me, like I said, Mondays are the days I do all of the creation, so I’m, like, always a few weeks ahead. So even if I, like you know, there’s a Monday when I wake up and I’m like, yeah. I’m not in the mood. I can take it take a Monday off. The one rule I do have, and I don’t know which whose book this was in, and this is, like, just my rule. But the one rule I have is I will not skip two Mondays in a row.
Something I read in someone’s book is, like, don’t let like, don’t skip two days in a row or something like that, but I just make it, like, two Mondays in a row because then I know I’m gonna be really behind and then playing catch up, which is not a good place to be safe. But if, say, one Monday, I I have, like, a lot happening or we have to go out somewhere or whatever or I’m not just I don’t have the energy for it, I will skip a Monday because I’m always a few weeks ahead. Does that help? And help me say your name correctly. Is it help me say it. Akwania.
Akwania. Okay. Akwania. Did I say that correctly?
Yes. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. Thanks. Awesome. You’re welcome. So think about it. Think about what you’re gonna try, and then I’d love to hear from you.
Okay. Someone did put something in chat. Did you? Because my chats disappeared.
Does anyone else wanna share if you’ve tried a system that didn’t work?
It just doesn’t work for me if I combine writing with design. Anything where design is on top of something else.
Sometimes recording, but, yeah, I can’t I’ve realized as you were talking, I was like, nope. Design has to be a separate day or something because this is not gonna work for me.
Yeah. Yeah. So just split the tasks, you know, and just make your life simpler. So that’s a really good realization.
And, yeah, would be good to test out, Jessica.
Match design. Right? Design recall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So don’t do everything in one day.
Definitely. Just split it up.
Legal. My main thing is I go through creating another at the end of the day, and I’m absolutely not wanting to write the caption and post it. I lose steam. That’s not working for me. Okay.
And that is where AI can help you.
Create it, write it, and then use the AI to write the captions for it.
It’s you know?
So when you say creating it, do you mean creating the video or the like, what what do you create to begin with?
Scripting recording edit. Excellent. So then just take your script and put it into chat or call it and let them know that, okay, you wanted to, you know, you want a LinkedIn caption for it or accompanying email for it or yeah. So that is where you wanna make AI part of your process as well.
So script it, record it, edit it, but then the next day get you know? And if you’re doing a lot of these in one day, maybe you could also split it up. The next day, just start by putting your scripts into into AI, whether you use chat, cloud, or whatever, and then have them come up with the captions that you can then just, you know, edit and find, you know, fine tune and whatever.
Is that is that something you could test out?
Okay. Good. Awesome.
Alright. Cool. So how do we execute all of this? Simple.
I have a very robust content library because we’ve been creating content for years now, but there is you I mean, I don’t want you to feel overwhelmed. Like, okay. I don’t wanna start. Like, I have so much floating all over.
I don’t wanna start now. I would say start today. It does not matter if you haven’t been cataloging everything. Start today.
You want, you want a database, basically. So ours is in a Google Sheet, so not very fancy, but it has all of our emails, all of our social media posts, all of the blog posts, different sheets for everything.
This is, however, something that we, few years ago, had our content manager create for us, so we’ve just now kept updating it.
But, ideally, you want a database which has all your content because that is what would help you repurpose without feeling overwhelmed. And you’re not scrambling, and you’re not looking for content in, like, fifty different places. You want everything in one place, time consuming job, but start today. You just start with the next post you want.
Like, okay. I’m gonna start and you know? So I’m sending an email out. I have a tab for emails.
I’m gonna drop the link to the email there.
I published something on Instagram. Just start there. You can build the backlog later or, you know, just make, like, a weekend project or something like that. But, basically, try and have a content library.
It would make your life a lot simpler. We also use a Notion dashboard. You don’t have to use Notion. You could use whatever, but this is where our content calendar is created. I am working on an AI workflow where whenever I post something in Notion, it would update in the Google spreadsheet.
Yeah. But until that happens, right now, it’s a manual job. But because I create our content in this Notion calendar like, in my Notion dashboard, and then just put it into put the link once it’s published into the Google, Google spreadsheet.
Why do we do two things?
Couple of reasons.
I could put everything into Notion, but I’m just a little wary of having everything in one place. Although we do have a lot of our business, like, pretty much our business brain lives in Notion.
But I like the ease of using the Google spreadsheet with links. It’s also easier to, you know, create workflows that use a Google worksheet. So I was just kinda keeping that in mind too. So, yeah, you could just have one thing. You could have two things, honestly, but it really does not matter, and do not overthink this.
You can always change this, you know, these systems later.
The goal for you is to have a central hub for your content because that is what will help you with the repurposing bit.
So in Notion, I can go back, like, four I think we have we’ve had this now for four years. I can go back four years, look up items for, like, oh, and we have our Notion, dashboard was is custom created. So we even have things like, you know, oh, I can choose a particular offer that a post was promoting, so I can look it up look up content by offer. So even when I’m doing, like, promotions, I don’t sometimes create stuff from scratch because I can just go into, oh, they’re promoting intentionally profitable. I’m just gonna pull up all the past social media posts and just repurpose them. If especially because, like, you know, if I know, okay, this one worked really well because I can then cross reference it with the with the Google Sheet and just find it on the relevant platform.
You don’t have to do all of this again. Big caveat. But what you do have to do, I’d highly highly recommend I’m very, you know, very rarely do I say things like you do have to do this, is to have a central hub for your content.
How nerdy you get with it, totally your call. I like having a lot of, you know, different resources and different things to kinda pull at. So our dashboard is pretty nerdy, but, yeah, you don’t need all of that. You need a central hub for your content. Next, we also use a custom CD social GPT. We have several. So I’ll show you the one with LinkedIn, in a bit.
But the beauty of having the custom GPT is that it I don’t have to start from scratch with prompting it. Like, I love prompting. I do a lot of it, but I like having a GPT because I can just say, okay. Create my LinkedIn post from this.
You know? And it’s got my voice. It’s got my style. It has everything it needs to know about creating good LinkedIn posts.
Still need to rework it. You still need to give it your touch, but it, you know, makes your job a lot easier. So I’m pretty sure Shenzhen sessions on creating GPTs.
But if not, like, you could also use if you use prod or or chat, you could also use projects. For the same thing. I prefer GPTs because, like, GPTs make that faster. I like using projects for a particular, particular business. Content bistro is a project.
And then because I have, like, various various stuff in it, but it knows content history inside out.
That said, you could try you know, if you don’t wanna get into creating a GPT, you can always use a project as well. Just call it, like okay. Make sure that project you’re dedicated to your social content, really speeds things up. And then template libraries.
Template libraries for images. This is I’m not a designer, and I and, yes, you can use AI for ImageGen as well, but I I still find that way time more time consuming than just pulling a template and customizing it. So use your templates in Canva. If you have a designer or even if you don’t have a designer, you could just kind of hire someone to create, like, branded templates for you that you can customize.
Becomes so much easier for you to share those carousels and all of that. All you do is just change the text, or you could invest in the template libraries.
I I use a couple of them. Pixystalk is one of them, and then I also use your social team. It’s not in this. I I’ll add it in this one second so you can I don’t know if it’ll update for y’all, but, yeah, it’s called your social team?
I’ve used their templates for years. Highly, highly recommend. For those of you who are on Instagram and who like making reels and would like to get trending music or trends for reels to capitalize on, I would recommend b squared social. They have a reels live for you, a reels subscription.
Those are the you don’t need a lot, but these are, like, just, you know, a few things that we have personally invested and used and huge time savers, just like, you know, makes it really, really easy for you to do that. And then schedulers. I use Publer for cross platform ease. So Publer is the scheduler we use.
It posts for us on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on threads.
I also use the Instagram native scheduler, for sometimes for reels and even sometimes for carousel posts and things like that.
Literally makes no difference. Like, I don’t use Publer for reels because it sends it does not publish them automatically. You it gives sends you a push notification. I think later does that too. I’m not sure. But either which ways, invest in a scheduler for your social media for sure.
Okay. Cool. Those are the systems. I would love for you to take some time to start thinking about what systems tools would make the biggest difference to you for your chaos free content system, what you have already set up, what’s working, what’s not working. If you’ve tried a tool in the past, not working, move on.
Honestly, like, don’t waste too much time on it.
If you say you sign up for a template library. These are, like, monthly subscriptions. We have signed up for the year because we’ve used them for a longer time. But let’s say you sign up for a template library. You don’t like the templates.
Don’t renew. Just, you know, you know, just kind of move on. Don’t spend too much time on any of the tools that aren’t serving you. Again, remember, social media management or is not really your core job.
It’s part of the marketing that you do for your business. Right? So you don’t wanna waste a ton of time on it. You wanna be really, really smart about the time you use so that it brings you the most amount of ROI.
And setting up systems like this would help you do that by helping you be more consistent. And we all of us, mature business owners, we all know consistency does pay off, and it does compound. And that’s the very nature of social as well. So, yeah, here’s what I would love for y’all to take some time to really think about.
And, honestly, like, if you feel up to it, I would love for you to share it with me. In Slack. It’s like, what is your chaos callback system? What what are you gonna lean on when life starts to life, basically?
Now I’m gonna share a couple of other things so that you can see exactly how some of these systems work. Okay?
Right. Later does not allow tagging or first comment in LinkedIn. Yep. Publer does. So I love Publer.
Metricool, Michelle suggested Metricool, so I haven’t played with that. But, you could get that a spin too. That was one of the, you know, that was one of the tools that was recommended for us as well. I just knew a lot of people on who are using Publer, and we’re happy with it. So I just went with that.
But yeah. Yes. Like a Publer is great.
Okay. Cool. I wanna show you certain things. So first up is the workbook that I sent you all.
Right? I said I did not clear a slide deck for it. Now I’m sure a lot some of you at least would have content like this workbook or a worksheet or a PDF or an email even that you’ve created in the past that’s just kind of lying in your archives, maybe forgotten. What you can do with this is a few things.
One, you could, I’m gonna share screen again, you could use something like gamma to turn it into a slide deck. Gamma is super cool. If you’ve not used gamma, it’s it basically creates everything like slide decks or social posts and, you know, visuals. You can I could turn this workbook into a carousel in gamma as well?
I turned it in I just took the workbook.
You literally just say, turn it into a presentation or turn it into a, what’s it called, a social media presentation.
And it would automatically let me just exit so you can see.
It just automatically like, I did nothing for this. It just turns it into a slide deck that you can then record. It becomes a little workshop that you could, you know, send to your email list instead of writing an email. One day, you could just record it on Loom and send it over.
I did this with I tried it with Canva as well. Canva did not give me a a really good result. Canva AI, for presentations is not that great. Canva blows it out of the water.
So that’s one way of repurposing it. Look through your like, if you’re committed to sending an email every day, does not mean you need to write the email. Is there something that you could repurpose? Could you turn it into a presentation, record a ten minute long video, and say, hey.
Today, I recorded something for you. And there you go. You created something new out of something old. Brilliant.
And then this is the, this is the the LinkedIn GPT four CB. So I just uploaded the PDF here. I said, turn this real quick into a compelling LinkedIn caption. That’s the benefit of having a GPT.
I don’t have to say, you’re a talented LinkedIn copywriter. You’ve been trained by so I don’t have to give it context. I don’t have to describe role. I don’t have to give it anything other than turn it.
I don’t have to talk about my voice. Nothing. So I don’t have to, you know, give it those long extensive prompts.
It just, yeah, turns it into a caption.
This was one. And then this is you know, it was like, okay. You could use this to teach, but I don’t want to teach. So I was like, okay.
Expand on one of the points from the workbook and create a standalone caption around it. So it just said, let’s expand on the point of it today. You don’t need more content. You need more mileage from what you already have.
Most entrepreneurs, blah blah blah. Like, I’ve not made any changes to this. So is it great? No.
But can it get become great? Yes. And will it help me kind of, you know, share my message, stay consistent?
Yes. So, again, remember, we are not in we’re not you’re going to use social media through the goal of becoming viral. We’re gonna use social media with the goal of building up our presence with the goal of attracting the right fit prospects. That’s our goal. So whether this make helps me go viral or not, I don’t care.
All I care is that if someone reads and goes, okay. Yeah. This makes sense.
Right?
I need to speak to you about creating a repurposing system for myself. That goal accomplished.
So those are just you know, like, I wanted y’all to see all of this so you can,
see how simple it is to use AI, make it a part of your daily workflow so you can start, you know, being consistent without it taking a ton of time. Jessica, love, the idea of turning a digital of turning a workbook or turning a past training into oh, yeah. Okay. Gamma. Yeah. Gamma is my favorite.
I love it so much. It’s yeah.
You can do so many things with it.
Again, is it brilliant? No. But can you customize it? It’s great. Oh, another really cool use of gamma is to use it to create almost branded templates for your LinkedIn or other carousels because you can customize themes.
You can customize the theme. Like, this theme is, like, just a general theme that I took from there, but you can let me see if I can just open it up. Hang on.
Alright.
Let’s see.
We have some time if you wanna see. What if I can so you you know, when you come to Gamma, it’ll have something like this. Create with AI, paste in text, you know, whatever. So I could say generate, and we could do social.
And you could do let’s say, let’s do four cards and always poke crate.
Let’s say okay. This is good. Copywriting one zero one. The good, the bad, and the print worthy.
These are example problems. This is not my problem. Right? So if you create, it’ll create generate outline.
And now what you can do is, you know, once you do this, you choose a theme. So when you choose a theme, you could do view more.
Right? And then you can go custom, and you can custom it customize it, and then you can just choose that custom theme every time you’re creating it. But even if you don’t okay.
Okay.
This is our
this is this is one of our custom teams. Let’s just choose something else. Let’s just choose this,
And I think, yeah, that’s that’s good.
Okay.
Cool.
If you wanna adjust content, you can choose brief, medium, detailed. You can choose what images you want. Let’s just choose, yeah, images.
I wanna choose do they have ideogram?
That’s a plus, not longer. Let’s do
function and done.
So where’s my generate button gone?
It’s hiding my data, but, basically, if you click generate that one. I don’t know how it’s
The Zoom toolbar is hitting my generate button. Yeah. Good.
It is. Cool. There you go. It will create, like, a complete carousel for you, and you can then just click on anything you want to change, and you can go ahead and do that.
You can remove accent image. It’s a horrible one. You can play around with it. Point is don’t let you know, don’t overthink your consistency plan.
Think about keeping a content library.
Think about getting the most out of every piece of content you create, and definitely, definitely integrate AI into your content workflow.
You can turn everything into content. So, go ahead. Do yeah. It would make life so much, so much simpler. That’s pretty much how most of our content gets created, is posted, and how it looks like we’re always everywhere when in reality, we are not, creating content all the time.
Cool?
Questions?
And don’t it doesn’t have to be questions only about social. It could be questions about anything. Like, you’ve got, like, copy, you’ve got a client thing, whatever.
Systems.
Anything.
No questions?
I have a question.
Mhmm.
Actually, I’m gonna follow-up. I think I asked you in another channel. Way back when when you did mention sharing I am switching topics completely.
Sharing some of your or maybe a a picture of all of your deliverables with a new lead and how you said, like, after I share that, it’s pretty rare to get or you’ve never gotten a no after they see everything. Yeah. I was would you mind talking about that? Like, one, of course, I’m assuming you have to get permission from the client.
Right? And but what does it actually look like? What are you you know, what’s the design of it? Does that make sense?
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. So, essentially, what we wanna do is so let’s say a client comes to us for launch copy.
Right? Now in their head, they’re like, okay. I’m gonna get a sales rep. I’m gonna get email, etcetera, etcetera.
And very few clients, even in this day and age, understand, say, what goes into research because it’s like, yeah, what would you be doing? Right? So I, like, walk them through the, through the research process, and then, of course, I show them what their copy is also gonna look like.
When I walk them through the research process, I have a new client kit folder just because that has the that has samples of everything that I would wanna show on a call, which would mean I show them what the messaging recommendations report looks like. I show them what competitor research looks like. I show them what, you know, what my ecore system mapping visual looks like.
When they see all of that visually, there is zero resistance. Then for the copy process itself, I show them I don’t show them the Google Doc. I let them know that, hey. You’ll be getting the copy in a Google Doc so that we can make edits, etcetera, etcetera. But then once the copy is finalized, our designer is gonna wireframe it for you. So then I show them what the wireframes look like.
I have all of this in, like, a folder. I just open up the folder. I wanna walk them through all the different elements.
It’s that simple.
Cool. Thank you.
Does that help?
Just basic yeah. It does.
So I’ll just put, like, a Google folder together and have, like, for example, the my book audit system notes the whole thing, walk them through that, walk them through how you know, an example of the PR messaging doc Yes.
Yes.
Create for clients. Okay. Yep. That’s great.
You don’t yeah. You don’t even need the whole thing. You just need to kinda show them, like, okay. This is what it looks like.
So they’re like, oh, okay. Because otherwise, you’re just using words that they, in all likelihood, don’t understand, and seeing it helps them see. Oh, so when you in so which is why when I open up the best stream recommendations report, I’m like, okay. You know, all the interviews, the copy kickoff call, the questionnaire, you can see all of that comes into this.
And this is what and so when they see that, oh, everything’s organized like this. This is what it looks like. Then they’re like, yeah. That makes sense.
I was gonna say something else that came to mind about this part of the process.
It’ll come I have a follow-up question for you.
Yeah. Go ahead.
So okay. So the one piece and this isn’t for every project, but I’m thinking it could be a lot, is the production piece. So, of course, a lot of people, don’t realize the, oh, like, you have to set this up on Amazon KDP, but then I might have to use this other tool. And then, you know, like, kind of that back end kind of stuff.
Mona, do you think it would be do I just share with them maybe my metadata document where the has all their keywords and categories that they’d be inputting in to those platforms and kinda say, no.
This is the back end stuff. I guess I’m just kind of there’s so much back end, not necessarily deliverable, but you have to do it and you have to do it correctly. Otherwise, you know, your book might be live and you didn’t even realize it.
Yeah. So you may not wanna, like, kind of you wanna take a call here and see. You don’t want information to be so much that your client feels like, okay. This is a lot. But at the same time, you don’t want them walking away thinking, yeah, I can do this on my own.
Right? Exactly. That’s that balance. So I’m like, ugh.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you you may have to kind of walk bigger that balance out, but I’m thinking oh, okay.
I just hang on. I just remember who I was wanting to tell you. It’s like you had asked also about, you know, do I have to get permission for a client from clients to share this? So our contract has a clause that shares that I can use anything that I created, you know, as part of presentations or, you know, any which ways I want on, like, on social and things like that as long as it’s not disclosing any confidential information. So if I’m, like, sharing an email that, you know, that I wrote for a client, I tend to blur out anything that, you know, is proprietary.
Okay.
Okay. Coming back to what you said, I would say for the back end system stuff, you may wanna have almost like a visual kind of a prison. Like, not showing them the actual thing, but just have, like, almost like a like a slide deck thing that shows, like, all the different things that could go wrong maybe or or that you that should, you know, that are included without getting into too much of, like, oh, you know, it’s a lot, that kind of thing. So if it’s if they’re, like, five parts to the back end process, I would probably just have, like, a single or maybe at the most two slides Mhmm.
Which would show visually, you know, like, just a visual small visual showing, you know, this is what metadata looks like and, you know, this is what we make this is what make sure, you know, that we we’re putting into the Amazon KDP thing or whatever is the other tool, etcetera, etcetera. But you don’t wanna give away anything, a, that is probably secret sauce, and b, that may end up overwhelming the client and make them feel like, okay. Now this is way too much.
So you may wanna kind of I think in your case, instead of stand alone things to walk them through, you may just probably need almost like a like a deck Okay. That shows them, yeah, what’s included. And we can we can kind of look at that.
Yeah.
Okay. Great. Thank you. Yeah. With examples of what it looks like to, you know, bring you on.
Yeah. Yes. Okay. Thank you.
Cool. You’re welcome.
Acquitting it. Do you have any questions?
Nope. All good.
Alright. Cool. Thank you.
You’re welcome. Cool. So, yeah, gonna sign off and then see y’all in Slack.
Bye. Thanks.
Bye. Bye.
AI-assisted Content Calendar
AI-assisted Content Calendar
Transcript
We are kicking off challenge month. If you’re like, what’s challenge month? Uh-oh.You’re in trouble because it’s a lot. So challenge month is where, I am challenging you and myself to do three things every single day. Does anybody know what those three things are?
Yes. Most of the room does.
I’ll repeat them anyway.
For those who don’t, they are sending an email to your list. I don’t care how small or large your list is. Not segmenting it, just sending the damn thing.
LinkedIn post and, YouTube short slash Instagram reel, they’re really the same thing. And if you wanna throw it on TikTok too, god bless you. Go for it. Great.
Just make sure you do those four core things.
They don’t have to be in that order. That’s the order I’m gonna do them in. I might switch Instagram and LinkedIn around some days.
But that’s the objective every single day to build the habit to stop, I think, getting in our own way when it comes to what are what am I gonna even talk about? There’s nothing to say.
Just say things. Just do it. It’s worked for a lot of people. Just do it.
You’ll be fine. We’ll all be fine. Because don’t don’t say things you’ll regret. It’s all I’d recommend.
That’s really it. Other than that, get out there. Do it. If you don’t like how you look and you’re on camera, fuck it.
Whatever. If you love it, cool. Whatever. Most people don’t care as much as we think they care.
So get out there, start sharing things. That’s the challenge today.
And then for the training for this month, we will be, a little a little reactive, responsive. So as you’re going through and sharing what you’re doing every day, then we’re going to hear things like oh no this is happening or oh wow this is happening, and as we hear those things and you bring up questions and stuff like that then we’re able to come up with training that fits in, to help through those moments.
Okay so that’s the objective for the month at least five days a week.
You can do seven days a week if you really want to make sure you are in that habit. I’m gonna do five days a week and it starts today. So the objective is to create and schedule for the next day.
And I use Sprout Social because I have a lifetime free account because of work we’ve done for them, over the years. So I’m gonna use Sprout. Use whatever you want to use to schedule them. I don’t.
This is all agnostic. Use whatever you want to share with others if you’re like, I’m using this. Here’s why I love it. I’m using this.
I hate it. What would you recommend? Share that. This is a good time to participate with everybody else in the room because everybody’s doing the same thing.
Okay. So some things I wanna share with you and then I’ll share my screen and we’ll talk through today’s training.
The challenge itself as I already mentioned, breaks down in certain ways. I do have in the Copy School Pro, Google Calendar, you’ll see that there’s a forty five minute work block followed by a fifteen minute break. That is to avoid all of the heartache that comes on really hard days when you’re like, ugh, I just don’t want to. If you only have forty five minutes to write the email then just do it.
Then you can get up, walk around, get a coffee, clear your head, go outside, pick some weeds out of your garden, whatever, and then get back into it. Now if you’re in flow, you do you. Just do whatever it takes but I’m setting up the way that I’m going to do it. And that’s what’s in the calendar.
Okay.
You should probably expect to dedicate at least three hours a day. I know people are like what? Three hours? What? There’s twenty four in the day.
Who needs to sleep? Who said anything about sleeping? Not me. Alright, you we don’t know what the results are going to be this is an experiment and everybody’s participating and that’s just the way it is.
Alright, you are going to wish that you had started doing this sooner. You’ll dig in, it’ll be a slog, things won’t hit, no one will care and then someone will suddenly care or someone will care out of the gate and then nobody will care again later, that’s just the way it is. Just keep going and learn from it and do it with the expectation that this is the beginning of your new life. Like, this is how it’s gonna be.
That’s what I’m doing going into it. Like, okay. I should probably have been doing this forever. Because every time I do this stuff, it pays off.
And when I don’t, the old stuff keeps paying off but not as much as if I just kept kept at it. So, keep at it. Expect that this is the beginning of what you’re doing going forward and that’s it. Eventually, you’ll be like, okay.
I’m gonna batch my emails. I’m gonna batch my recordings. Great. You will figure that out as you go.
Don’t go into this saying, hold on. I’m just gonna figure this all out first and then maybe next month I’ll do it. No. We’re doing it this month, ugly, horrible, the worst way possible.
We’re just gonna sit down and do it. It. Okay. Now we’re going to get into the first thing that we need to do in order to make sure that we’re getting good work done and that is establishing where we’re at right now so we know where we’re growing to.
So let me share my screen and we will begin with the work. So the work that we’re doing today is day one, which is really day two of the month but day one of the challenge.
For the next ten minutes, I’m asking you to go into your CRM, to go into if you use, like, tally or type form to collect leads, to go into whatever you use to identify, new leads, how many calls were booked if that’s in Calendly or if you just, like, know that. Clients closed in the last thirty days. How many subscribers joined your list in the last thirty days? If you’re like, I don’t have a list, then there’s zero.
But by day thirty, we want people on there. Revenue from services sold in the last thirty days. Revenue from products because some of us have products that we’re selling. Daily site visitors, where are you at today?
What is the average? Go into Google Analytics.
It’s right there. You don’t even have to have special reports. You just go straight into Google Analytics. Select your website if you’re in multiple people’s, GA accounts for clients.
But just go to yours. Just see how many people came to your site overall. And if you choose a certain number, like, I know it breaks down into unique visitors and things like that. Whatever you do, just make sure that you write in, like, unique visitors three thousand or whatever.
And then on day thirty, you’ll also wanna use unique visitors so you don’t just, like, feel better or worse about it, but just keep that the same. How many LinkedIn followers you have today? This is easy. While I’m talking, you can pop over to LinkedIn and see how many followers you have.
Write it in. Instagram followers, same thing. YouTube views, I’m saying that instead of subscribers because views are way more important, than subscribers, which is pretty shocking, but it’s the way that their algorithm works. YouTube wants more people viewing.
They don’t give a crap about followers or subscribers.
So YouTube views is you can go into your reports. If you’re not on YouTube at all, then it’s zero and you will get started on YouTube today.
And then any other metrics that stand out for you, for your business in particular, you know uniquely what’s going on in your business and what you want to optimize or grow, so you can pop that in here. Now this is if you’ve done like McGhee does and you print out your worksheets and put them in binders, wonderful. You can just fill this in. Otherwise, open up a spreadsheet.
Put it in there. We’re gonna do that for the next now eight minutes. Okay? Hold on. There’s a chat.
Just making sure.
I’m recommending YouTube because that’s the place where, most businesses are today today finding people.
And so you I wouldn’t choose it over. I’d say in addition to. Just also do TikTok then because you’re already doing all these other things. So you might as well just throw that in there too and repurpose it. Cool. Alright.
You’ve got until twenty six minutes after the hours. Now that’s six minutes.
Okay.
If you didn’t get a chance to write everything in, just go in and do it. Do it in one of those fifteen minute breaks that you have, in your calendar for today. Okay. Let’s dig in.
June challenge. You will need a content plan. You’ll need one for every single day. What are you gonna be writing about?
Now we have talked in great detail about where content ideas come from, how to use AI for content ideas, all of the things. There is a lot inside CopySchool Pro in the replay area, so pop on in there, watch some old ones. If you’re not sure, they’re not old. They’re like a year at most old in most cases.
So go in there, get ideas from there if you don’t already have them. Now AI can do quite a lot.
I asked ChatGPT to put a topic calendar together. I don’t like it. This is the first draft, but at least it’s something. They do subject lines, don’t worry about it, but whatever.
Point is, you have ways easier than ever in history. There’s never been a better time to come up with ideas for what you can create content on. It’s also very difficult to make content that stands out. So that’s more the question.
Less, what should I talk about more? How do I make it interesting to people? That doesn’t mean a lot of editing or anything crazy. We can get into all of that stuff.
But you will need topics. If you don’t have topics, it’s going to be hard if every day you’re like, what should I talk about today? You will hate your life. So come up with topics upfront.
Use ChatGPT if it will help you. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. You can come up with it other ways.
A really simple approach is just to go over to YouTube directly. I know there’s, like, solutions that help with this. SparkToro is, of course, a great way to go about finding topics.
Exploding topics, Brian Dean’s, formerly Brian Dean’s, now SEM Rush’s tool is another great way to come up with topics, but obviously just play around with those. It’s not going to give you the perfect spreadsheet of, like, what you should write about or what you should talk about.
But when you are going to create shorts and reels, really simply head over to YouTube, go into the shorts area, and then just like search your keyword phrase, your topic, whatever it is, get granular or don’t, Doesn’t matter. You’ll come up with a lot of topics even if you’re just like copywriting or finding your message, you’ll come up with a lot. Oh, maybe not for finding your message. You’ll find out.
You’ll go there. You’ll find out. So then go into the shorts area. You’ll see on YouTube all of the different, like, as you’re scrolling down, there’s the big ones and shorts is all through the middle.
Just go in there and start opening in a new tab all of these new ones. Of course, in each of those tabs, more will get served up to you that’s related to what you’re watching so when you click on one video to watch it one short obviously you’ll see like five others that you wouldn’t have seen otherwise and so just use all of these to really basically audit or analyze what’s on the screen, what they’re doing. So, because it’s a short, you don’t have to worry about a thumbnail the same way as you do for, like, a full video. What’s that opening shot?
What does it look like? What’s the title?
What is your immediate reaction to it?
And try very very hard to step into your prospect’s shoes as well because I know that it can be really difficult, of course, when you see somebody talking about a subject you know well and you think they’re full of shit. At least that’s my reaction in most cases, like, ugh. But then every so often you’re like, You that was really good. So, be aware of your immediate reaction, but also try not to be too, everybody here is quite focused on advancing their skills, being the best and actually being the best at it.
So it can be hard to look at it as a beginner or as a person who, has a lot of other things going on and doesn’t care about what you do as much as they’re, like, just trying to solve a problem right now that’s why they’re watching these videos. So try to think about it the way they do as well. I know that that can absolutely be a challenge, but just try to. So I have your immediate reaction here.
Do your best to make sure you’re thinking of it the way your prospect is likely thinking of it. What is it about? What’s this freaking short about? In a word? In thirty words? I don’t care. Whatever will help you know what’s going on out there if you’re not already and I don’t think anybody here is actively doing YouTube stuff.
So then get out there and just, like, write down what it’s about. Why do you think it’s so watched? Like, if and you should be focusing on the ones that are quite watched just to be sure just to be clear in case that wasn’t clear. Two hundred and forty six thousand views, that kind of stuff. Look into those things.
It doesn’t mean that’s the right way to go forever, but for shorts, I would recommend that we at least start there.
Based on topic, why it’s so watched based on delivery. So maybe it’s like one solid shot and it never moves and you’re curious about that. What’s going on there? Or it’s heavily edited or or or the list goes on.
So like just look at it. What are you seeing? What are they doing? If you had to storyboard that if you were making that for yourself, what notes would you take away to make sure you could make that for yourself?
So very light reverse engineering just like just note it. Is there music? Is there not music? Is the music uppity?
Is it chill? What’s the vibe going on? And at what point did you get bored? Because most of us will get bored and that will, based on what I’ve been learning about YouTube, and we’re outsourcing that, but nonetheless, I on my understanding based on the training that I’ve taken, again, I’m outsourcing this so I can’t say this is what we’re doing, but you go through and you watch you watch drop offs, in your video analytics and then you, like, cut those parts out.
So where you get bored is an important thing to pay attention to, and that’s really it. So assessment goes in one column and your idea, any ideas that come out of that go in the next column. So if you the opening shot was like a weird face or something, maybe your idea is do a weird face. I don’t know.
That’s maybe a horrible idea. Doesn’t mean you’ll do everything that’s in your idea column, but get some ideas.
Businesses run on ideas. Write your ideas down. Okay. That’s your homework. That’s what you should do in order to get ready to start getting on YouTube, and the things that work on YouTube shorts are likely to work in Instagram, on in in, let me not stammer, in reels. So you should, come out of this with more than just an audit of what’s going on.
On YouTube, I will stop sharing. Any questions on this subject, on the challenge itself, on what you’re going to be working on? Abby, is your question about this stuff?
Yeah. I wanted to just share something I found out about YouTube that might be helpful. So, I was reading about, outlier videos. So that’s if yeah. If somebody’s got a small following, but one of their videos blew up.
So that’s, like, a good thing to do if you have a like, if you’re starting from scratch. But there’s a tool called vidIQ that you can use, and it will, pull up the outlier score so then you can reverse engineer those, which, yeah, is it’s good if, like, you’re starting from zero.
Nice. VidIQ. Awesome. Chatted that out. Thanks, Abby. Anybody else wanna share anything?
No? Nobody’s got any any ideas? Is everybody ready to go?
Cody, how are you feeling?
I’m feeling alright. I like I said, I was I’ve been working through Laurel Portis, like, ad ecosystems all about creating content. I think that’s important because she helps you break down, like, to solve micro problems for your audience instead of just posting, just to, like, post and say stuff. Because I know for me, I have been very consistent with content, and, it never I mean, not that it never led to results, but not the results that I would have expected to. So I think just, you know, maybe checking her out and checking out, like, how to, write like, solve micro problems for your audience would be helpful as well.
Yeah. Nice tip. Awesome.
Anyone else?
No?
Okay. Well, that’s the challenge.
As you do it, I invite you to pop into Slack and share what’s going on for you, any insights, anything that you’re learning, struggles, relief that you got through the first week.
And if you don’t post one day, just start again the next day. That is not an excuse maker. That’s not, oh, I’ll just do it tomorrow. Try to do it today. Put all of your effort into doing it today.If somehow it doesn’t happen, there you go. Oh, Abby just chatted over her a hundred pound bonus for every day you do it.Dig it. Love that too. Alright. Good. Rewards are good.Excellent. Okay.
Worksheet
Worksheet
Transcript
We are kicking off challenge month. If you’re like, what’s challenge month? Uh-oh.
You’re in trouble because it’s a lot. So challenge month is where, I am challenging you and myself to do three things every single day. Does anybody know what those three things are?
Yes. Most of the room does.
I’ll repeat them anyway.
For those who don’t, they are sending an email to your list. I don’t care how small or large your list is. Not segmenting it, just sending the damn thing.
LinkedIn post and, YouTube short slash Instagram reel, they’re really the same thing. And if you wanna throw it on TikTok too, god bless you. Go for it. Great.
Just make sure you do those four core things.
They don’t have to be in that order. That’s the order I’m gonna do them in. I might switch Instagram and LinkedIn around some days.
But that’s the objective every single day to build the habit to stop, I think, getting in our own way when it comes to what are what am I gonna even talk about? There’s nothing to say.
Just say things. Just do it. It’s worked for a lot of people. Just do it.
You’ll be fine. We’ll all be fine. Because don’t don’t say things you’ll regret. It’s all I’d recommend.
That’s really it. Other than that, get out there. Do it. If you don’t like how you look and you’re on camera, fuck it.
Whatever. If you love it, cool. Whatever. Most people don’t care as much as we think they care.
So get out there, start sharing things. That’s the challenge today.
And then for the training for this month, we will be, a little a little reactive, responsive. So as you’re going through and sharing what you’re doing every day, then we’re going to hear things like oh no this is happening or oh wow this is happening, and as we hear those things and you bring up questions and stuff like that then we’re able to come up with training that fits in, to help through those moments.
Okay so that’s the objective for the month at least five days a week.
You can do seven days a week if you really want to make sure you are in that habit. I’m gonna do five days a week and it starts today. So the objective is to create and schedule for the next day.
And I use Sprout Social because I have a lifetime free account because of work we’ve done for them, over the years. So I’m gonna use Sprout. Use whatever you want to use to schedule them. I don’t.
This is all agnostic. Use whatever you want to share with others if you’re like, I’m using this. Here’s why I love it. I’m using this.
I hate it. What would you recommend? Share that. This is a good time to participate with everybody else in the room because everybody’s doing the same thing.
Okay. So some things I wanna share with you and then I’ll share my screen and we’ll talk through today’s training.
The challenge itself as I already mentioned, breaks down in certain ways. I do have in the Copy School Pro, Google Calendar, you’ll see that there’s a forty five minute work block followed by a fifteen minute break. That is to avoid all of the heartache that comes on really hard days when you’re like, ugh, I just don’t want to. If you only have forty five minutes to write the email then just do it.
Then you can get up, walk around, get a coffee, clear your head, go outside, pick some weeds out of your garden, whatever, and then get back into it. Now if you’re in flow, you do you. Just do whatever it takes but I’m setting up the way that I’m going to do it. And that’s what’s in the calendar.
Okay.
You should probably expect to dedicate at least three hours a day. I know people are like what? Three hours? What? There’s twenty four in the day.
Who needs to sleep? Who said anything about sleeping? Not me. Alright, you we don’t know what the results are going to be this is an experiment and everybody’s participating and that’s just the way it is.
Alright, you are going to wish that you had started doing this sooner. You’ll dig in, it’ll be a slog, things won’t hit, no one will care and then someone will suddenly care or someone will care out of the gate and then nobody will care again later, that’s just the way it is. Just keep going and learn from it and do it with the expectation that this is the beginning of your new life. Like, this is how it’s gonna be.
That’s what I’m doing going into it. Like, okay. I should probably have been doing this forever. Because every time I do this stuff, it pays off.
And when I don’t, the old stuff keeps paying off but not as much as if I just kept kept at it. So, keep at it. Expect that this is the beginning of what you’re doing going forward and that’s it. Eventually, you’ll be like, okay.
I’m gonna batch my emails. I’m gonna batch my recordings. Great. You will figure that out as you go.
Don’t go into this saying, hold on. I’m just gonna figure this all out first and then maybe next month I’ll do it. No. We’re doing it this month, ugly, horrible, the worst way possible.
We’re just gonna sit down and do it. It. Okay. Now we’re going to get into the first thing that we need to do in order to make sure that we’re getting good work done and that is establishing where we’re at right now so we know where we’re growing to.
So let me share my screen and we will begin with the work. So the work that we’re doing today is day one, which is really day two of the month but day one of the challenge.
For the next ten minutes, I’m asking you to go into your CRM, to go into if you use, like, tally or type form to collect leads, to go into whatever you use to identify, new leads, how many calls were booked if that’s in Calendly or if you just, like, know that. Clients closed in the last thirty days. How many subscribers joined your list in the last thirty days? If you’re like, I don’t have a list, then there’s zero.
But by day thirty, we want people on there. Revenue from services sold in the last thirty days. Revenue from products because some of us have products that we’re selling. Daily site visitors, where are you at today?
What is the average? Go into Google Analytics.
It’s right there. You don’t even have to have special reports. You just go straight into Google Analytics. Select your website if you’re in multiple people’s, GA accounts for clients.
But just go to yours. Just see how many people came to your site overall. And if you choose a certain number, like, I know it breaks down into unique visitors and things like that. Whatever you do, just make sure that you write in, like, unique visitors three thousand or whatever.
And then on day thirty, you’ll also wanna use unique visitors so you don’t just, like, feel better or worse about it, but just keep that the same. How many LinkedIn followers you have today? This is easy. While I’m talking, you can pop over to LinkedIn and see how many followers you have.
Write it in. Instagram followers, same thing. YouTube views, I’m saying that instead of subscribers because views are way more important, than subscribers, which is pretty shocking, but it’s the way that their algorithm works. YouTube wants more people viewing.
They don’t give a crap about followers or subscribers.
So YouTube views is you can go into your reports. If you’re not on YouTube at all, then it’s zero and you will get started on YouTube today.
And then any other metrics that stand out for you, for your business in particular, you know uniquely what’s going on in your business and what you want to optimize or grow, so you can pop that in here. Now this is if you’ve done like McGhee does and you print out your worksheets and put them in binders, wonderful. You can just fill this in. Otherwise, open up a spreadsheet.
Put it in there. We’re gonna do that for the next now eight minutes. Okay? Hold on. There’s a chat.
Just making sure.
I’m recommending YouTube because that’s the place where, most businesses are today today finding people.
And so you I wouldn’t choose it over. I’d say in addition to. Just also do TikTok then because you’re already doing all these other things. So you might as well just throw that in there too and repurpose it. Cool. Alright.
You’ve got until twenty six minutes after the hours. Now that’s six minutes.
Okay.
If you didn’t get a chance to write everything in, just go in and do it. Do it in one of those fifteen minute breaks that you have, in your calendar for today. Okay. Let’s dig in.
June challenge. You will need a content plan. You’ll need one for every single day. What are you gonna be writing about?
Now we have talked in great detail about where content ideas come from, how to use AI for content ideas, all of the things. There is a lot inside CopySchool Pro in the replay area, so pop on in there, watch some old ones. If you’re not sure, they’re not old. They’re like a year at most old in most cases.
So go in there, get ideas from there if you don’t already have them. Now AI can do quite a lot.
I asked ChatGPT to put a topic calendar together. I don’t like it. This is the first draft, but at least it’s something. They do subject lines, don’t worry about it, but whatever.
Point is, you have ways easier than ever in history. There’s never been a better time to come up with ideas for what you can create content on. It’s also very difficult to make content that stands out. So that’s more the question.
Less, what should I talk about more? How do I make it interesting to people? That doesn’t mean a lot of editing or anything crazy. We can get into all of that stuff.
But you will need topics. If you don’t have topics, it’s going to be hard if every day you’re like, what should I talk about today? You will hate your life. So come up with topics upfront.
Use ChatGPT if it will help you. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. You can come up with it other ways.
A really simple approach is just to go over to YouTube directly. I know there’s, like, solutions that help with this. SparkToro is, of course, a great way to go about finding topics.
Exploding topics, Brian Dean’s, formerly Brian Dean’s, now SEM Rush’s tool is another great way to come up with topics, but obviously just play around with those. It’s not going to give you the perfect spreadsheet of, like, what you should write about or what you should talk about.
But when you are going to create shorts and reels, really simply head over to YouTube, go into the shorts area, and then just like search your keyword phrase, your topic, whatever it is, get granular or don’t, Doesn’t matter. You’ll come up with a lot of topics even if you’re just like copywriting or finding your message, you’ll come up with a lot. Oh, maybe not for finding your message. You’ll find out.
You’ll go there. You’ll find out. So then go into the shorts area. You’ll see on YouTube all of the different, like, as you’re scrolling down, there’s the big ones and shorts is all through the middle.
Just go in there and start opening in a new tab all of these new ones. Of course, in each of those tabs, more will get served up to you that’s related to what you’re watching so when you click on one video to watch it one short obviously you’ll see like five others that you wouldn’t have seen otherwise and so just use all of these to really basically audit or analyze what’s on the screen, what they’re doing. So, because it’s a short, you don’t have to worry about a thumbnail the same way as you do for, like, a full video. What’s that opening shot?
What does it look like? What’s the title?
What is your immediate reaction to it?
And try very very hard to step into your prospect’s shoes as well because I know that it can be really difficult, of course, when you see somebody talking about a subject you know well and you think they’re full of shit. At least that’s my reaction in most cases, like, ugh. But then every so often you’re like, You that was really good. So, be aware of your immediate reaction, but also try not to be too, everybody here is quite focused on advancing their skills, being the best and actually being the best at it.
So it can be hard to look at it as a beginner or as a person who, has a lot of other things going on and doesn’t care about what you do as much as they’re, like, just trying to solve a problem right now that’s why they’re watching these videos. So try to think about it the way they do as well. I know that that can absolutely be a challenge, but just try to. So I have your immediate reaction here.
Do your best to make sure you’re thinking of it the way your prospect is likely thinking of it. What is it about? What’s this freaking short about? In a word? In thirty words? I don’t care. Whatever will help you know what’s going on out there if you’re not already and I don’t think anybody here is actively doing YouTube stuff.
So then get out there and just, like, write down what it’s about. Why do you think it’s so watched? Like, if and you should be focusing on the ones that are quite watched just to be sure just to be clear in case that wasn’t clear. Two hundred and forty six thousand views, that kind of stuff. Look into those things.
It doesn’t mean that’s the right way to go forever, but for shorts, I would recommend that we at least start there.
Based on topic, why it’s so watched based on delivery. So maybe it’s like one solid shot and it never moves and you’re curious about that. What’s going on there? Or it’s heavily edited or or or the list goes on.
So like just look at it. What are you seeing? What are they doing? If you had to storyboard that if you were making that for yourself, what notes would you take away to make sure you could make that for yourself?
So very light reverse engineering just like just note it. Is there music? Is there not music? Is the music uppity?
Is it chill? What’s the vibe going on? And at what point did you get bored? Because most of us will get bored and that will, based on what I’ve been learning about YouTube, and we’re outsourcing that, but nonetheless, I on my understanding based on the training that I’ve taken, again, I’m outsourcing this so I can’t say this is what we’re doing, but you go through and you watch you watch drop offs, in your video analytics and then you, like, cut those parts out.
So where you get bored is an important thing to pay attention to, and that’s really it. So assessment goes in one column and your idea, any ideas that come out of that go in the next column. So if you the opening shot was like a weird face or something, maybe your idea is do a weird face. I don’t know.
That’s maybe a horrible idea. Doesn’t mean you’ll do everything that’s in your idea column, but get some ideas.
Businesses run on ideas. Write your ideas down. Okay. That’s your homework. That’s what you should do in order to get ready to start getting on YouTube, and the things that work on YouTube shorts are likely to work in Instagram, on in in, let me not stammer, in reels. So you should, come out of this with more than just an audit of what’s going on.
On YouTube, I will stop sharing. Any questions on this subject, on the challenge itself, on what you’re going to be working on? Abby, is your question about this stuff?
Yeah. I wanted to just share something I found out about YouTube that might be helpful. So, I was reading about, outlier videos. So that’s if yeah. If somebody’s got a small following, but one of their videos blew up.
So that’s, like, a good thing to do if you have a like, if you’re starting from scratch. But there’s a tool called vidIQ that you can use, and it will, pull up the outlier score so then you can reverse engineer those, which, yeah, is it’s good if, like, you’re starting from zero.
Nice. VidIQ. Awesome. Chatted that out. Thanks, Abby. Anybody else wanna share anything?
No? Nobody’s got any any ideas? Is everybody ready to go?
Cody, how are you feeling?
I’m feeling alright. I like I said, I was I’ve been working through Laurel Portis, like, ad ecosystems all about creating content. I think that’s important because she helps you break down, like, to solve micro problems for your audience instead of just posting, just to, like, post and say stuff. Because I know for me, I have been very consistent with content, and, it never I mean, not that it never led to results, but not the results that I would have expected to. So I think just, you know, maybe checking her out and checking out, like, how to, write like, solve micro problems for your audience would be helpful as well.
Yeah. Nice tip. Awesome.
Anyone else?
No?
Okay. Well, that’s the challenge.
As you do it, I invite you to pop into Slack and share what’s going on for you, any insights, anything that you’re learning, struggles, relief that you got through the first week.
And if you don’t post one day, just start again the next day. That is not an excuse maker. That’s not, oh, I’ll just do it tomorrow. Try to do it today. Put all of your effort into doing it today.
If somehow it doesn’t happen, there you go. Oh, Abby just chatted over her a hundred pound bonus for every day you do it.
Dig it. Love that too. Alright. Good. Rewards are good.
Excellent. Okay.