Tag: january 2024

Launching Productized Services

Transcript

Alright.

Before we begin, these launches are not essential. You can sell your product services or your package offers without doing a launch launch. The idea, however, is that you do need to share them in some way. I call them launches because that’s, you know, that’s how I approach them, and that’s how we in the past sold, these packages, especially when they’ve been, you know, like brand new, or, when we know we would like to say see the next quarter booked out. So you would still see me doing that, a lot of times with the newer packages that we launch.

So getting straight to it. The first stop, this is the launch that I have probably used the most because this is really great for high ticket offers.

And it has natural urgency because with the high ticket offer, you generally put a cap on the number of spots because there’s only so many that you can take, or you can give them, like, an extended payment plan.

Something that we’ve done in the past is we’ve prebooked clients and each, like, given them, like, say, a six month or a nine month or even a twelve month period to use the package, which means they can book it, say, in January, they can keep paying for it over time. Let’s say they wanna launch in September. I’m talking about, like, the fully loaded course package. Right?

So we can if, you know, we can give them, like, an extended payment plan. So they they’re paying we’re getting paid in advance in any case. Before we even kick off the project. Right? So we they get, like, that extended payment plan as well. So I love limited urgency focused launches for obvious reasons.

But, yeah, it totally depends on what you want. So You can create urgency for your launch by using any of the following, offering a special payment plan. Like I just told you about limiting the number of spots because, you know, well, you have. It’s like a high touch service generally. And then making the package available only for a limited time. So when the fir when the very first time I launched, the fully loaded launch package.

It was not a high dynamic variety standard. Any one of you who’s watched my tutorial Tuesday knows exactly how much I charge for it. To begin with. It was what it included, you know, underpriced. However, let it also be known that it was my first time offering that package. I had never done something like that before. So I feel like there’s basically what Maikan and I thought was, like, let’s test the waters and see.

It obviously all sold out really, really fast. So that time, what we’ve done is we’d like kind of just post it on social, and I’ll talk about that in a bit too. But we’d limited the time that people could, you know, have for signing up for this. So you can, you know, create urgency in many different ways. You don’t always have to discount your package.

You can choose to combine two or even all of these to run an urgency focused launch.

So what are the copy assets that you need for this? Your opt in page, your sales page goes without saying you need thank you pages for both of these, but All of your smart people, you know that, emails, blog posts, and I’ll come to that in a bit, and then social media updates. If you’re using a shopping cart, for a prioritized service, you obviously need that too, for most of our packages. We do not use a shopping cart, especially for our high ticket packages.

So, basically, because we either, help, you know, let people pay over time so that, you know, if they wanna spread their payments out, or sometimes we need to customize it even further. So so there you go. But anyway, these are, like, the copy assets that you need, or you may wanna use. I hesitate from things absolutely be because sometimes you don’t need a blog post.

I’m just sharing everything that I’ve used in the past. So often, you wanna create a simple opt in form. This is not the opt in form we’ve used in the past. This is just an example of the opt in form we currently have on the site, but point is you wanna create a simple opt in form and to collect your leads, especially if you’re gonna be using blog posts that are specific or social media updates that are specific to your product type service.

A sales page. We’ve already talked about what a sales page could look like for a productized service in, one of the previous sessions. So, if you haven’t watched that, I would highly recommend watching it, but tweet as your sales pitch needs to let prospects know what it is, who’s it for, how can they, you know, use it, what the benefit in it for them? Why do they need it? And why do they need it now?

Because remember, this is an urgency focused launch.

And then let’s talk emails. So these are emails that we’ve, you know, used in the past, and have had really, really great results with for, especially even for, especially, not even for, especially for high ticket packages. So the teaser email is the email that kind of goes goes ahead of time, letting people know what’s coming up. It also gives people who are not interested in the package to opt out. The second is, of course, the launch email, which is, you know, like Gmail. It’s a plural sales email.

And then I have the four f emails. I love creating frameworks pretty much everything. It just makes it easier for me to remember what I’m supposed to be, right, writing in those emails. So first step is my fans and followers emails, which is essentially a social proof email, testimonials, social proof, for p, you know, from people who’ve used your services or if you’re, you know, it’s a tested out product type service who’ve used their service before.

The FAQ email, again, fairly standard. You wanted to move objections by answering their questions, and then they’ve got the future pacing email, which shows them what their life is gonna be or their business is gonna be once they worked with you. And then we’ve got the final countdown emails. So very, very standard emails, and there’s not, you know, like a lot of you don’t wanna get too complicated with them.

Couple emails that we’ve also occasionally used include the authority emails and then grab the bonus email, which are which is both great. Like, if you have authority content, or you’ve got you’re offering a bonus.

Again, something that we’ve also done with our packages in the past. For instance, like last year, I did a Flash sale spritzer package that sold out really fast. It was, you know, basically a package for writing emails a flash sale and the bonuses that I included were, social media blurbs, not full blown posts. No.

Social media posts and then blurbs and news, you know, to use in your newsletter or or even as short social media captions. So why did it include those bonuses because it was they were really easy to create. I’m writing the emails in any case. I can choose full social media copy from those emails itself.

And it kind of removes the hesitation and objection that our audience has, that my audience may have around the Flash sale emails. But, okay, I’m doing this Flash sale, how do I promote it? Well, I’ve got you covered.

So, yep, grab the bonus email. We’ll be one of those. Yep. Money.

Hi. Quick question for you. I’m, I’ve never done a lot before. So and I was asking about software and etcetera. So for somebody who’s, like, never gonna launch.

Where do you start? I guess that’s where maybe there’s more courses I should be taking back in copy school. But if you were like an absolute beginner because, I’ve never launched a package, I’ve Mhmm.

Where where is there, like, a good how to or checklist guide because I feel a little bit lost to be frank. When I I go through this, I’m like, oh my god. I have done none of these, and I don’t know where to go to get you know, frameworks or starting points.

So that’s and maybe I’m the only person in the room that has that, but that’s where That’s a really good question.

So for a launch like this, right? You could use you if you have an email list You could use your ESP for sending out the emails. It’s that simple. You don’t need any fancy software.

You can just use the email system you’re using to send out emails to your list. If you, let’s say, do not have an email list, you can use social media. I I know you started posting on LinkedIn and use your sync script. Traction with it as well.

I have a social only launch as well that I’ll share with you in just a bit that you can just use social media to sell your, you know, productize service.

For the sales page or the opt in page, all you need is basically like your website. Right? You can They got opt in page would be on our website. Our sales page is on our website. So as long as you have a website and ESP, or an email service provider, and like a social platform.

You’re good. And, of course, oh, wait. We accept payments from people. Honestly, like, Aleafia’s recommended, click funnels, click files is, it’s great.

But it’s okay.

Oh, okay. Has that even used click funnels. Yeah. I haven’t used click funnels personally, but I do have clients who’ve used click funnels. It offers way too much for what you all need to sell product. I service selling productized services is the lowest tech.

Kind of launch that you can never think of as long as, like I said, as long as you have a website, you have an ESP, and you have a social platform and a way to accept payments from people.

You’re golden.

It’s such a hackathon.

Well, because it’s interesting that you asked that question about click funnels because there’s go high level. And then there’s Exactly. Yep. And glow go high level, which is really interesting about it, allows you to like, as a full service with email, I think hosting.

Yeah.

I’m It said Quick address as I do.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it would be really interesting at what people thought about that as an option because it’s sort of like the all in one built in I don’t know how efficient it is to do these kind of email sequences, but if the software itself, is an all in one solution would be interesting.

Yeah. Funnel gorgeous. Katie said is another one. So quick funnels, funnel gorgeous, go high level, even kajabi for that matter. You know, they are all all in one solutions.

If that’s what your business needs, definitely look at them.

The re so what I would kind of caveat this with is the last thing you wanna do is over complicate your tech stack.

So you want your tech stack to be as simple and efficient for you to be able to use and lean on as your business grows. And also Also, where most importantly, you want your tech stack to make you feel comfortable and not intimidated.

The What I find that happens with a lot of our clients is, like, especially with things like kajabi or or click funnels, or even funnel gorgeous because I did have a plan who used funnel gorgeous is that they need to bring in someone to be able to set things up for them, to be able to, you know, do a lot off the back and work for them. If you’re cool with that, that’s great.

I personally like to know how my website works. So even if, say, our tech team, we both have a tech support person and a designer and a developer.

If they were to say be sick or unveiled, I can go in and really make sure everything’s running running smoothly, which is probably why we haven’t moved to all in one solution also is because Everything is speaks well to each other. Our website is on WordPress.

Our ESP can work our social platforms are obviously all sorted. So we didn’t really see the need for it. So definitely explore the solutions, but then make a decision that feels good and comfortable for you. Because, Do you need all of these to sell, you know, your your packages?

No. You don’t.

I’m proof of that. I have so many other, copywriters who who don’t use any of these. As long, like I said, you need your website. Yes.

You need your email service provider. Yes. Need a social platform. Yes. You need a way to accept payments.

Yes.

If your current tech stack is doing the job and you’re happy with it, that’s fine.

Katie, said, I use ConvertKit Squarespace and Triclip launches. There you go. Yeah. Triicot is what we use as shopping, car too. So one time payment and has an integrated app. Jessica Business Center once had system before software. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Cool. That was a really, really great question you asked me. Thank you so much for asking. And, yep, Chris, you’re right. Click files is seen up as a bit. It is, you know, it’s got, it’s got, Russell Brunson behind it, who is the author of quick final, oh, sorry, expert secrets as well. He’s a smart marketer, but some of the things that they do don’t just sit right, with with McAfee personally, which is why we don’t use the calls for us.

Cool. Great discussion. Alright.

So, yes.

Moving on.

Quick notes about blog post authority content.

All of you here are supposed to be building a authority. How I was not supporting the, you know, when I was starting out was was with block posts, which is why I lean on them heavily I since have added a lot of other, elements to our authority plan, but block host is what I I still love a lot and use heavily for both launches or or for, sharing our services and all of that. See, again, you can choose which you wanna leverage to share your content, I choose walkways. You could choose a podcast. You could choose a YouTube channel. But point is you do need to build your authority.

Preferably on a platform that you also own because, yes, social is great.

That social is a fickle friend.

Social will change at the turn off a hat, and, you don’t want to put all your eggs in one social basket.

So which brings me to social media posts. I four sharing our services, our packages, you will find. I usually lean on the, what I call, the ABC firm framework. It just makes it very easy for me to create social content as well.

Katie, I think it asked me in the Slack group, how it creates social content I use, for me, it’s really simple. Authority but it’s called action kind of a thing. So authority is like blog post point of view. You’ll see a lot of my point of view posts on social, like takes and things like that, and also just, you know, value content, buzz posts are, you know, behind the scenes, T as opposed.

These are launch specific.

General assignment field updates that you about what you’re working on. Again, you’ll see a lot of these in the Instagram stories.

Call the action post for your, for your package or your productized service would be like, okay. Here’s what you’re gonna get. And then, you know, you also wanna do a few playout updates. Like, oh, I’ve sold these many spots, and I’ve only got one spot left. Again, you’ll see me me do a lot of this on on Instagram, which is the social platform of choice for me. Like, it is our main platform, then I’ve since added in LinkedIn.

And a little bit of Facebook and threads. But, yeah, Instagram and LinkedIn is pretty much where it’s at.

Now this is the list building Evergreen launch. This is like a lovely launch to give you more. If you have a service, productized service or a package that you sell as a subscription model.

So back in the day, we used to have a service, package service, project service called grab and go. Those were essentially done for you social media captions. I think they used to be oh gosh. I think they used to be, like, sixty of them that we used to do for a client.

They used to be custom creative for them, but we used to get them, like, all sixty. We were not responsible for posting them, but they would have, like, and they would not, like, templates or anything. They were, like, custom created social media updates that they could use to, you know, populate on the probably their social media feeds. It was a subscription based thing because it used to cover them for three months, if they were to post x number of times.

And that it so well. So for something like that, this was a a launch that worked really, really well.

So here’s what you need for this is, again, same assets just kind of slightly flipped over. So social media updates Facebook ads if you wanna run those, again, haven’t run those for our productized services, but feel free to do so. Which take people to the opt in page or the opt in content, which could be a blog post. You’re right, where they have the option of opting in.

And then when they opt in, your email sequence kicks in that sells them into your prioritized service. Which is the sales page.

Again, copy asset, social media updates, five to seven to kind of cycle through. Optent page and a raw content with content upgrades essentially means, they need to probably their email address to get some additional content or just to kind of, you know, know more about your service. You could just give it very clear and simple.

You know, sequence, obviously, sales page.

The emails, updates, and block content for this, like I said, are exactly the same as they were for the emergency launch. It’s just a different flow, and it’s on autopilot.

And you kind of just keep sending people to your opt in, and then getting them to sign up for your subscription based service.

This money is what I was talking about is the social only launch? This is how I launched our fully loaded launch. Happy package the first time ever. This is how I launch.

I’ve launched a lot of different packages since, something that you need to know about me is I am a huge believer in the launches of least resistance. I like to do something that feels easy to me is fast to execute and doesn’t take a ton of time. So this is one of those things. It’s a minimal effort, massive ROI launch.

It works for just about any kind of package or productized service.

It’s a good launch model to use when your email list is not too big. It’s tiny or maybe like a midsize list, but you do have an engaged social media presence.

So it’s also, like I said, ideal if you wanna be that has to package. Right? You don’t wanna create a full blown, like, all of the emails and social media copy and all of that before you launch it. So it’s a really, really great package to use.

You could use I’ve I’ve used Instagram for this. I’ve used Facebook for this. I haven’t used LinkedIn for this. So I will yeah.

But both Facebook and Instagram work really, really well for this. So, it can be both urgency driven or or Evergreen.

Cool. Copy assets. You need to focus and engage presence on one or two social network You need social media updates. Of course, it’s a social only launch.

You need your sales page. Again, caveat, you don’t need a design sales page. It could be a Google doc sales page. I’ve shared a Google doc sales page a previous call with you.

Again, low tech, very, you know, easy to pull together. So that, and then you know, here’s how you wanna kind of plan it out.

You wanna start at least two weeks before you wanna start selling. Your package. So why? Because, again, like I said, social is can be a fickle friend.

So not everyone’s gonna see your updates And when you post them and not everyone will see all updates either. Right? So give yourself some time to kind of I keep two weeks. You may wanna test out a short appear, but two weeks is what’s worked for for both for us.

You need to have multiple updates, and you’re hoping to have multiple types of updates again, photos, texts, videos of your overlap. And again, the three ABC goals, you want authority, buzz call it action. Once you again created those updates, give yourself two weeks to share those updates.

Share them on platforms of your choice. And like I said, I repurpose and repurpose both stuff all the time. I highly recommend. So just kind of adapt them to suit the platform of your choice.

How you wanna split it is week one is authority and buzz. Right? Because you’re sharing, why are you the best person for this package? What’s your point of view?

How is your process different? What kind of proof do you have? All of those things? What’s happening?

How are you working on restructuring this, etcetera, etcetera. Right? And then you start showing up at the peak because it’s, you know, you built thirty posts tend to build a large engagement as well. So do buzz posts.

That’s the whole idea here.

We do is a combination of buzz and call it action. So you still continue with updates on, you know, social proof and what’s, you know, your own excitement around the the package of secrets and tips and all of those things. And the last half is going to be all about a push to sales. So three to five days.

So if you’ll have, like, a five day week, gotta keep day one and two for buzz, you know, if this is coming, keep them your eye open to this. It’s gonna have, like, I’m gonna have only three spots, etcetera, my past clients have shown. Obviously, you don’t wanna lie. If past clients have shown interest, you wanna kind of talk about that.

If they haven’t, then, you know, you wanna say I’m gonna be limiting spots because it’s gonna be very, you know, high touch, etcetera. And then the last half is gonna be called the action to push sales. If you’re using the sales page, all the action updates will include the link to the sales page, whether it’s a Google Doc or a new website. If you’re not using a sales page, again, you don’t need one for this.

You can ask them to message you or comment on your post, and then you can, like they say, take it to the DMs.

For most of these productized services or packages, the card open duration is around three to five days.

Caliet, as always, depending on your audience, your niche, the service that you’re actually offering all of those things. So just kind of keep that in mind. You know your audience and your business best. You can always put your specific business and productized service ID. You can always lean on us in CSP to kind of say, okay. I’m thinking five days, but I feel like my audience may need more time to decide What should I do? And then, yep, happy to lay in.

If you keep keep the card open for three to five days off for your package, This may seem a bit excessive to y’all. I would recommend, though, share a call to action update during the current twice or even twice a day at different times. Your audience knows you’re in launch mode.

People totally understand and respect that. Let them know that you’re letting them you’ll be letting them know that before, you know, during the authority building phase as well. And again, remember, not everyone is gonna see all your updates.

Not everyone is gonna see all the updates. So they’re not gonna it’s just the nature of the game. So it’s okay. I know you may feel like, I’m posting too much.

Trust me a lot. So just enjoy enjoy the process here.

So I want you to keep some of the teams in mind during the social media launch, you wanna encourage people to comment and our message you to engage with you. You wanna be responsive to those comments and likes, like and reply. Always, this you should be doing in any case, but especially during the launch.

Please create your updates in advance. However, be prepared to do a few on the fly updates as well. For instance, you had someone snap up a package. Right? That isn’t on the fly. I think. You may, someone who signed up, you know, gives you permission to share that they’ve signed up to work with you.

There’s an update, or it could just be, you know, yeah, you know, this is me having a good time while my service launch is going on.

Some of those on the fly updates are great from behind the scenes and also for for social proof and credibility.

How do you decide which one’s perfect for you? Depends on your season of life. I’m a huge believer in that. Your productized service positioning and your own secret superpowers. And what do I mean? Season of Life?

You need to think about do you have a lot going on? Is it relaxed with, you know, more manageable responsibilities on the client and family fronts?

Or is it a really busy season right now? Do you have a lot on your plate? Your season like is super important to take into account when you’re creating a launch time, not just for this, but for anything that you may be launching in the future, whether it’s your workshops, whether it’s your course, whether, you know, anything.

So there’s no fun in launching while you’re feeling kind of stressed out and exhausted or overwhelmed.

And again, after working on, countable number of launches, there is no right or wrong way to launch. You don’t even have to make a big sum and dance about launching this. You would just do an under the radar launch, aft and plenty of those as well. But point is you do need to share your productized service or package when you have it ready with the people who may be the best fit for it.

Offer positioning is your package exclusive and high ticket urgency launch, maybe the best option. Is it a subscription based service? Like I said, you know, it may be do a social only blast or do an evergreen for it. Is it a starter package?

Like an audit? Great. Put it on Evergreen. You can mix and match things. You can create your own hybrid version of it.

But keeping your positioning in mind can help you create a launch plan that gives it the greatest chance of succeeding.

And then your own secret super powers. This is really important. Now if you don’t enjoy social, don’t do a social on your launch. Like, in our business, Mike and I, Bank wouldn’t even have a Facebook account if it weren’t for the business.

I mean, he’s not a social person. Social media person. He’s a social person. He’s not a social media person.

At all. I, on the other hand, can live and breathe social media all day long. I love it. It’s a happy place.

So for me to do a social and relaunch, when we first launched started doing our prototype services and packages made complete sense because I thrive on it.

For you, maybe using your email list may be a good idea. So maybe go and agree with your packages, or maybe you’re really great at outreach and writing, you know, emails to connect with as clients or pitch the core pitches. I think Oh, it feels great at that. Right? So leverage that point is create you could create your own hybrid launch model, right, just decide what works best for you, but decide as soon as you create your package and decide right now because overthinking your launch isn’t going to do you any favors. Alright. That’s it for me.

Let’s just chat.

Can I can I ask a question about the timeline of the urgency launch? And specifically, like, you mentioned the blog post of the authority content, and then the opt in How far in advance would you share that blog post and often before you went into your urgency or your email sequence?

Yeah. For the urgency launch, what I would do is I would write in a blog post.

I would keep like a let me just pour some water for myself.

I would keep, like, a four week period, essentially. I would write my blog post, send it out to the email list, send out shared on social, get some people signing up for, you know, the, like, an interest list of things, and then keep my usual three to five day card open period. This isn’t an ideal situation, Katie.

Sometimes And this is more probably me. You may be better at this than I am. I sometimes get a great idea. Discussed it tonight, he’s, like, on board with it. And then I decide that we need to launch it. So so I write up a quick Google Doc Saleslate. I literally did this today.

I write up a good quick Google Doc Saleslate, and then what I do is I will keep, like, earmarked a five day period to start talking about it on social. So my social launches are all urgency for the launches.

But if you have the time, I would say, kind of be smart about it.

Like, do your blog post first week of the month, do your blog post and let you email us get people talking about it week, you know, use week two for your the authority of the buzz updates. And week three, you could use for, you know, your buzz and call to action updates. That’s how it would be like a smarter way. To do it. But again, if you let me have lots of great ideas, I wanna test them out, do a social only low lift launch.

And when you have to often sorry, friend. When you have that often, are you are you having, I mean, generally? Are you having people opt in for a freebie or for to hear more about the offer that you’ve teased in the blog post?

Both.

I, for instance, I share let me actually show you this in.

An option. So before I launched ready to sell, Right?

I had a blog post that was all about selling evergreen courses.

And it’s like a fairly detailed post.

You’ll see this this often right here is not for ASL, but earlier, this often was for, if you’d need my help to write your evergreen funnel, get on our wait list for when I open up, you know, the I have the excitingly evergreen package, so it was for that. So I used to do specific freebies. Like I shared with you earlier, it just became very confusing. And then those rebies would not be updated, and I would be like, all like, you know, I don’t have the time to kind of work on them.

So I just went with this. It’s been working. So I guess, plus, you know what, I realized, like, people who opt in without getting a freebie are actually genuinely interested in learning about your sources. So or your program.

So, yeah.

Thanks. That’s really helpful.

You’re welcome. Abby, I know you asked the same thing. What are they opting in for? You could give them a specific you know, and offer specific opt in.

Like, for instance, let’s say you are you have the day when evergreen thing. Right? Like, so you could give them, like, say, hey, here’s how you could do an audit. To see if your offer is ready to go Evergreen from day one.

That could be your freebie, but, personally, I don’t they just opt in to be the first to know when I have availability.

So, yeah.

Any other questions about launching your productized services and packages about structuring them, anything else?

I I have another question if nobody else wants to go.

I would love to know, like, how do you decide what, what becomes a productized service versus what is just your bespoke packages. Like, for example, fully loaded launch, you know, how do you reconcile doing like a custom launch strategy for people versus them buying fully loaded launch and having that kind of set menu. Okay. Good.

Good. Good question. Alright.

So For me, essentially, it is about solving a problem for applying.

Like, what would be What would make it an easy yes for them?

Like I just shared with you, I’m, like, literally right now about to beat a test new package for our existing clients who want more from us. So I will keep you posted with how that goes, but essentially we look at what what are people? What do people need the most? What does our audience need the most?

Can we give it to them in a way that’s effective and efficient for us? Is the last thing you wanna do? It’s like, let yes. We can give them the world on a pattern but is that sensible?

No. Right? So how can we do that? And once we kind of figure that out, that’s when something becomes a prioritized service.

Going back, for instance, I used to have an affiliate swipe copy package. Again, it was because, you know, I had a lot of people approaching me like, hey, have dig I have a digital product. This is gonna, again, we were working, as social media managers and content creators essentially. Right?

So we had like a lot of our clients were bloggers, and all of them had, like, ebooks and, you know, like, digital products, workbooks, and things like that that they that affiliates were selling for them. So we had an affiliate swipe copy package for them that would give them, like, say, for affiliate emails, it would give the their affiliates, it would, it would to use a swipe copy, for selling their products.

And from those emails, it became easy for me to pull social media updates.

So I did that. And then What I did was, which was like a one time thing was create, a PDF with, you know, fifteen different ways to promote so and so is a affiliate product. So, basically, those ideas were transferable because the audiences, like, our clients essentially all had, like, nine dollar, nineteen dollar, twenty nine dollar ebooks. So it was easy.

So, essentially, what how we approach this is What’s the problem we’ll be solving for our clients? And how can we do it in a way that’s effective and efficient for us? Because, again, we wanna stick to our our internal hourly rate. Yeah.

Does that help? Cool.

Monique, what courses in copy school are the best to watch, for prioritized services?

I think that’s more, a free Yeah.

I’ll I’ll elaborate on that because I, I feel like I’m going cold into the launch of, like, creating a and I had on Slack, which I saw thank you for your comment about workshop versus productized service.

And have two different types of services or products in mind.

A little bit about, like, where do you prioritize which one first? Because when you’re starting to in that early stage to do both, it’s a question of prioritizing one over the other. And I was just curious if there’s something that you know, as a how to walk me through a guide if there was something that I just missed in Copy school that I could go refer to.

I think.

So what you would need help with is Looking at what to launch or how to launch? What would be most helpful for you?

Well, both actually went to launch, like, in what stage and what order to go for a productized service versus going at it from a workshop perspective. So what was yeah.

I feel like, you know, I feel like what Joe’s doing in freelancing school would probably be a better fit for this. I haven’t had a chance to watch the what rise, sessions, but I believe he did some sessions on as part of master of product type services. I think that would be a better place to start, but I’d like the group weigh in on this, like, for those of you who’ve seen this or who are, you know, who’ve seen freelancing school because I think all of you have access to it as well. Right?

I haven’t been into freelancing school, but it sounds like in terms of developing product based services that rise recent sessions would be the best fit and then ten x launches, I think, is still available. And, Mike, if you’re looking for, like, an overview of, like, what launch emails to send to different phases or, you know, like, I think that’s probably your best bet.

Okay. Yeah. Great.

Perfect.

And you have questions on the blog, Printa’s own resources are amazing. So go on Printa’s blog, and check out your content.

I love that. I haven’t been here in your blog.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. No. I’m a big blog person.

So, alright. Any other questions?

Jessica, read everything Thank you. Okay. All of you. This is very nice. Thank you.

I’m glad I asked the question.

Perfect.

Okay. Cool. Anyone else got a prioritized service idea? You wanna run past me or a question about launching one. Go ahead. You have time.

Hi. I’m gonna offer some a question and maybe it’s an observation at the same time. On LinkedIn, has anybody turned on their product services, feature, and I don’t know how many are you aware of it, like, have you had anything come through it?

Is it I have like What what, you know, what are you getting value from that?

I know there’s a lot of hidden features on LinkedIn in a way if you don’t know about you don’t know to use them.

Any questions about that would be your answers to that would be insights talking about that that view by store button.

Are you talking about that one?

Yeah. Like, all you profile, it can say right under your, in the head in the header section. I will call it up front before a vote.

That’s the number for You want me?

Yeah. That’s available for premium users.

Yeah. I have that access. Yeah.

So it’s just the the first. So it changed recently, like, I think two months ago. So first, there was a custom link where you had to go on your and someone have to click customer link, but now that the button has, now that they have the button, so you post anything and then anyone reading your post can see that button so they can go directly to that click your website or there are only three options or blog portfolio website and store is here. Okay.

And have you found that anything has come of that? You know, just out of curiosity? Is it is it actually a pathway that should be considered.

Going to ask that to pre prenup because last time she taught the application funnel and the product has launched. I did I didn’t write my sales stage, and I I never knew that there’s something associated with me, but I guess I didn’t don’t do a cart open cart close to it. But I think I wrote, like, ten days ago, and then I’d be promoting it. And I’ve got like three times the amount of sales calls I usually get from midterms.

I don’t think. About seven days ago, I had no clients, no goals. When I backed up the new year. And then some because when people check my call emails, they go to my LinkedIn and then I don’t know if it’s exactly this button, but the sales page, Google Docsales page.

It did work, but have this one question regarding that that, the current launch package, it’s like I’m doing two offers. One is not not available to people like on on the sale space, which is they pay upfront and then they pay a small amount upfront and then it’s performance based. Have you go to the hot seat section, Ryan Shane had been shamed here at his business model. So it’s really curious to try that since I don’t have those many case studies.

So and it did work really well because I got like two really Really big names would would have ever said yes. Without that, one is Dave Sharp and second Jira got stuck if anyone is familiar.

So they replied to that saying that mister Smith.

But I’m curious that if, like, you share your your high ticket packages on the law firm’s sales page or you get them to a call.

Because Oh, gosh. I don’t know if on the sales page, people are resistant.

Okay.

Yeah. For me, okay. I’m sorry. I I interrupted you. How you feel, but, yeah, for me and, those are, like, Jessica and Katie, and Abby, if you’ve seen the site, you would know that I do share our pricing on the sales. But for me, it’s very important to not get on a call and have people get or shock.

So it’s not a good use of their time or mine for that matter. So, so, yeah, I’m, again, always, we’ve always always, even when we do not have high ticket packages or news, but, always had our pricing on the sales, which just kind of makes our life so much simpler. But I’m sure there is, like, again, a case to be made. So you gotta test it out for yourself. You’ve noticed that people are getting on calls and saying yes to you, so I haven’t stick know, you’re not keeping it off the sales very quick. Whatever was for you.

Yeah.

I love that.

I just looked at your And I saw that you put on store and you put a Google Doc.

That’s I hadn’t seen that. Did anyone do that? Honestly, it’s more the product I or the product services. So good for you. That’s really great idea.

I guess you can’t tell how many people are clicking on that.

Yeah. Yeah. That that’s the thing.

You can’t tell the clicks, a, I’ve put a little video so so that I’ve hacked, like, okay, how many people are seeing the Oh, as you mentioned.

Nice. Nice idea.

How many people are clicking? But here’s the question. So people who are only booking the calls are being nurtured via the DMs. And then someone said that you should, like, if it’s this high ticket, you should not reveal the price. I would really like to know, like, how do you approach it? Because in the launch space, some people are saying that or like fifteen k for now, the economy is really downturn and nobody wants to see that unless they’re getting coached on a sales call.

To to really justify the price point. Like, what I would just like to have a conversation about that. What are your thoughts?

I love for the group to kinda weigh in. My thoughts are very straightforward on this.

I’ve closed packages, upwards of fifty k, even a even a hundred k, with a proposal and not a sales call. Like, I mean, I’m just, like, people have come in knowing that, okay, yes, I wouldn’t call it a sales call. It’s more like a, you know, like a what I call our our copy chat where I go in, ask about their the project scope, So so when we sign our hundred k copy project, and then after that, I did another one for eighty k, it was exactly like that. Like, I went in, got the scope, let them know that, you know, they’d come in knowing, you know, what our where our pricing starts.

And also, like, say, the fully they their scope, I had to create proposal to them because their scope was so big that I needed to create proposal. Otherwise, if I can avoid it, I will avoid creating a proposal.

But in both cases, none of the clients had any you know, like, oh, so your sales pitch is like how much? There’s no there was no none of that, you know, because they knew, you know, what we charge. They so that is my argument. Again, very, very important for something to you, and I think everybody know is that you will always find people making an argument for and against something in business, and that’s probably why they fall, you know, you can call them best practices.

Like, people say, oh, the best practice is to do this, but the point is we can make those best practices better for us. So how do you do that? You do that. I’ve seen what works well for you.

For me, it doesn’t And I also tried, like, for my company, for us, it’s very important to build a business that aligned with our values for us financial stewardship and transparency. Super important. So which is why we’ve never charged interest for payment plans, but then something that people always say you should do is like, oh, you know, you’re giving a payment plan for your program, admin costs. So you need to try or The worst is PayPal fees.

You need to bill your client for PayPal fees. Like, your service fees needs to do, like, kind of, that’s Those are the things that I have very, you know, like my hot takes on. But point is it’s not the only way to do something. It’s not this is just what’s working for us.

So I’d love for the group to weigh, and I’m gonna shut up right now.

Yeah. I just wanted to add, I think, as well, when working with coaches, it’s just it’s like about getting in front of the ones that see fifteen k, like, the way that we see, like, a hundred and fifty dollars.

Like not everyone’s gonna see that. I’d be like, whoa, like, if they’re making, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars a month, then it’s like, they’ll see that. I’m gonna be like, oh, cool. So, yeah, I think it’s it’s just getting in front of those people. Like, I’m only just starting to, like, comprehend, like, how much money like some business owners have and yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

You’re welcome.

Also, ultimately sharing prices.

I’ve like, I’ve talked to clients about how if you have a lot of time and you like getting on calls, like sure test out not sharing the price. But if you, like, friend, I was saying, like, if you more value only speaking to qualified people, then at least having, starting from, like, bracket or something on your site is probably a good idea. Think, like, when I was saying, like, it really comes down to which do you prioritize, like, volume of people that you’re gonna speak to, and then maybe even if they do have a sticker shock, you, like, downsell them into a day rate, or are you really only looking to get on the on a call with, like, people who are prequalified for that specific offer?

Yeah. I just I added a link. I found this, download on the upside.

Definitely check it out. It is probably the only resource to date, and I’d love to know if it helps anybody in Slack. Let me know that it opened my eyes to some of the language to use, as well as the starting point, you know, where what what was a big aha for me is under your services, definitely say starting at you know, let’s say it’s a pack of ten thousand dollars because then to your point, you don’t limit yourself on the upper end because you can scope out the upper end.

But it is anyone who can’t even come close to the ten thousand, let’s say, you weeded them out, and it’s a way of qualifying them. And so I thought it was a really powerful language, that I haven’t seen in many places, but, you know, I I think we saw that who did it recently in the group?

Stacy did it, right, where she had her own you know, buy now link to cart package, which was fantastic. So I I it take a look at it. If anyone comes across anything better than this pricing book, as a tool, please let me know because I’m kind of devouring all these ways of sharing your your fee without having to be selling your self and not in regard.

Perfect. Thank you so much, honey. Awesome. Great. Cool. Last minute questions folks, or do you wanna wrap up?

Can I ask a quick question? Yeah. It’s it’s co quite a nosy one. It’s harder.

So, I follow you with the owner console answer on it, but I’m I’m really curious, like, how many of the fully loaded loaded launch, you sell like a month, and, I would love to know, like, how much time it takes you to Yeah.

Yeah. No. Absolutely.

How many of those do we make So full disclosure, Abby, like, right now, we’re at a stage where most of this fully loaded launch copy packages get expanded.

So they usually include way more emails than what’s on the page right there.

Sometimes they include other collateral, as well, including webinar scripts that are right or create, you know, student onboarding sequences and things like that. So when it is, And because it’s me doing all the writing of the copy, if it gets expanded into something like that, then it usually means I do one of those a month and then book the rest for the rest, you know, rest of the year. Though, and that but I still take on, like, you know, smaller projects, like, say, okay, a short email sequence and to say that because, again, I write really fast.

That’s the others think is I I feel like I, you know, it it’s it’s just fast for me to write. So, So that that helps for sure. How much time does it take? I will I actually, you know, will have hard numbers for you. I tracked all my time, but for maybe an idea. Hang on.

Like, I have, like, show to give you context.

I have the screenshot handy so I’ll share that with you. But Queen is, I we try and keep our hours to, you know, below or around this number for the year. So this is twenty twenty two.

Hang on. Let me Yeah. This is this is twenty twenty two. I also have the numbers for twenty twenty three.

How much time does it take? It’s hard. It’s actually hard for me to say. For instance, twenty twenty two is, I think when we did the hundred k package, which is May and June.

So that, basically, I think, took me this is where it was, but I was also working on other other projects at the time.

I can look up my last, you know, fully loaded copy package numbers and share that with you, but it generally would Katie, I use to follow. I have been using to follow for years, t o g g l. You know what? It’s free.

And it’s amazing.

And I track literally everything I do like from If I’m in Slack chatting with you all, I will track that.

And same with our clients. So for client work, I try calls. I tracked the writing. I tracked the edits. I tracked the communication. I have with them in their Slack. I tracked them or in the Asana or in my Notion workspace or any email.

I track edits, So when I look at the number, it gives me everything.

So, Abby, all of this to say, I can review my toggle stats for the last couple of fully loaded launch copy packages and come back to you, but it generally tends to vary depending on the scope.

Yeah. I mean, I would I would love to look at it if it’s not too much. How soon to share it?

Thank you. Abs absolutely cool with it. So yeah.

I love this idea because I think it’s the starting stats. Like what, you know, for me in particular, I’m like, what success look like out the door? And I know that’s a part of, you know, setting a vision for your business, but also the metrics. And sometimes it’s a little bit like, are you following your like, number of followers on LinkedIn that, you know, then it’s the conversions on the conversations, but it’s the the number of potential KPIs you can have starting out is bewildering and you can almost overemphasize, let’s call social media stats. In some ways, and then that’s where your time goes. But it’s almost like, how do you break down what the most critical stats are for starting out product high service. What’s realistic?

What’s a really great ballpark average? Because I think you can fluctuate between doing a, you know, low end.

Maybe a higher sell or reach, or you can do high end ticket, but it’s sort of like the mix of what, you know, maybe you’ve gone through of okay. Here’s just the baseline. If you can achieve something to this effect over x number of months, These are the metrics that will really help you because I feel that’s what I need. I I work well off of metrics and goals, and I just don’t even know where to start, to be honest.

Yeah. Really important fee. I I’m the same, Monique. I I work well on goals, like tangible metrics and goals. So I would say, you know, you need to kinda figure out what’s most important, for you, for us, it is that number.

It’s, yes, for me, revenue is, like, I love looking at, okay, and gamifying the system and, like, oh, you know, just kind of enjoying the game of entrepreneurship, but so I love the revenue number, but, for us more importantly, it’s also the number of hours work and the kind of work we’re doing.

So, why? Because we have both of us deal, my husband and I do chronic illnesses. When we started our business, our daughter was a toddler, so spending time with her was super important for us and being there for her and just sting her grow up. And, like, she’s sixteen.

She’s gonna be sixteen in March, but it still doesn’t stop. Right? Like, for instance, in March, we’re taking off to you know, taking her to Singapore to see Taylor’s veteran concert. So for us looking at the number of, hours that we spend in our business and the kind of life that we are building for ourselves is what defines success for us because just chasing a constantly moving goal post when it comes to revenue or social media numbers, like you said.

You know? Yeah. It’s easy to just get distracted from the big picture.

So Yeah. I feel like that’s probably where I’m stuck right now, if I’m being very transparent, it’s like that balance between time doing, building authority because, you know, in our authority plans, it’s the book, it’s the the podcast, it’s the newsletter, and I I’m like, oh my god, it’s building all that, and it’s not even the actual business development and the launching of a product.

And If I’m being really clear because I think that’s the whole vulnerability aspect of being in a mastermind is that it’s overwhelming right now. So I don’t know if anyone else is feeling that, but I thought I’d share it.

Sure. You know, like, I think Katie had shared something similar in Slack. You know, I think last month or so, you know, where you’re, Okay. As I have the limit authority, but then how do I also get money into the store, which is a very, very real concern. So thank you for for sharing this. And this is definitely something you could consider chatting about on on a hot seat and, you know, getting more insight there.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it’s I don’t know how to present it, I guess, is the thing when you’re in a hot seat. It’s sort of like you feel like you need to have copy as opposed to or something to react to, not a necessarily a mindset thing. And I I guess when it comes to mind, that’s Well, I mean, hey, I’m open to it. I’m open to it for sure as if I wanna if I wanna be the the case study on it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I think, mindset is definitely, definitely qualifies for for a hot seat. So you should definitely, you know, volunteer for one. That’s, you know, that’s the whole purpose of being in this room.

Now that I have everything in my calendar, and I’ll say that that was don’t know how I missed some things, but I honestly anyhow. Long story. Cool. Check issues.

Awesome.

I asked one last question, though.

If anyone if anyone else hearing and seeing all these creator opportunities come out like Justin Welsh, so there’s a whole bunch of these courses. There’s the upside that people are sharing with me.

There’s another one Donald Miller, like all these you know, essentially, there are the programs that are kind of said to have answered the the questions and the challenges I’m having. And and I’m wondering whether I should be taking any of them, but I don’t know. Like, you can sign up for endless courses. And I guess any thoughts on that?

Yeah. You need to see what you would will those courses give you what you need? If you can decide that on your first second to agree of a sales page, then it probably not the right thing for you. One of the, you know, I don’t know if this would help, Monique, but one of the things that, you know, Mike and I did way back, we, you know, we need to probably go back to it now because but when we were probably at, I would say, at the stage that you are at right now, what we did was we made a commitment to at least finish a course and get the most get what we wanted out of it before signing up for something else.

Because, again, it kind of tied back to the fact that we had limited energy, limited capacity, limited time because you’re also running a business with it. So signing up for a course is the easy thing going through and doing the work is where you wanna see. Okay. Do I really have the time, mental energy, focus, capacity to be able to take on implementing what, say, Justin Welch or a Donald Miller would teach you.

And if so, what would that look like?

So right now, we we don’t do that as religiously, but then that we all set a very different stage. Of life and business both. So it’s kind of, you know, it’s I would say it’s okay.

But point is, it’s tempting to sign up because it feels like the course would be the band aid or the quick fire solution to the problem, and you still label it. Right? But the fact is that you are You already have access to a lot of the courses that you need and the community and the training.

Mhmm.

What is it that you’re hoping to get from those courses that you’re not getting here and how can we kind of fill that gap?

Yeah. I think that’s a great point. Like, for me when I looked at the upside, it’s like step by step. It’s sort of the for me, it’s and maybe I’ve just missed some aspects of some of the courses along the way in in our our community that I’m just need needing to to get that.

And maybe maybe if there’s anyone in the coaching side that can say, hey, these courses, Munich, you have to take that maybe I haven’t seen or taken. That would be helpful. I just don’t know. Sometimes you just don’t know what you don’t know.

And when you’re driving the yeah.

It seems like a lot.

Personally, Monique, I’ve taken the Justin Washes courses and a couple of other ones.

But I can tell you that there’s nothing new, and most of them are pretty outdated.

It’s stuff that you use to work and now everybody’s doing So it’s, basically, it’s seen as a bit of, like, yeah, pushy, like, even the, like, the LinkedIn stuff and Justin Wiresh, basically, all he’s doing is looking at what tweets work, creating templates out of those tweets, systematizing them, and then basically every day sitting down and doing. Okay. Today, you want to write about this. I’m gonna freeze it this way, changing the words. So it’s kind of like a mechanical thing, a repeatable thing, but you can learn all of that for free. Just reading stuff that these creators write on social media or on their blogs, I think.

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Cool. I wanna chat everybody.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Worksheet

Setting Your Rate & Knowing Your Worth

Transcript

So as you all, rightfully know, this workshop is all about setting your rate and knowing your worth.

So quick sort of temperature check, in the room, when it does come to conversations and decisions around pricing and setting rates, like how are you feeling? Is the general vibe that you’re worried you’re undercharging? Do you sometimes worry that you’re overcharging? Is it just that you spend a lot of time caught up, in these questions in your head as you go about your work and your business? You just give me like a one sentence insight for each of you in terms of sort of where you’re at?

I can give you a one word in this both.

Okay. Awesome. I love that. Very relatable.

Seriously, I’m in a house, so I’m not doing a whole lot of pricing.

Cool. Are you looking to go out on your own anytime soon, Randall? Is this part of plan?

Or So, yeah.

There I mean, just maybe this is TMI, but I when I signed up for this, it looked like I might be going back on contracts. With the same company I’m working for. Gotcha. In that moment for now has passed.

Mhmm.

But I’m thinking that just what I see with AI and whatnot, maybe it might be a good idea for me to, yeah, pick the thing and run out as far ahead of the blob of the seeping blob of AI, So that’s, yes, definitely giving consideration to, you know, doing a bit more networking, the next, you know, six to ten months. And then, yeah, giving real, I guess, consideration to going back out of my own again, probably about a year from now.

Awesome. Cool. Well, this could all be stuff that you tuck in your back pocket for if or when that time comes.

Absolutely.

And Julian, what about you? Where are you at when it comes to thinking about pricing?

I would say I’m probably more on the side of undercharging.

Was that under or over? Sorry. Under. Under. Okay. Yep. Awesome. Alright. Well, let’s start here, just with what we can expect to dive into today.

So I’m sure that all of you here have probably heard the advice when it comes to pricing that good pricing is all about ROI and or it’s about charging what you’re worth so today I really wanna challenge both of those statements because I think while there is, like, a little nugget of truth in both of those, pricing is far more nuanced, than either of these statements actually allows for. So the more we can move away from these sort of blanket all or nothing statements, I think the easier pricing actually becomes.

We’re also going to hopefully uncover some of the internal narratives that might be getting in the way of you charging the rate that you want to or the rates that you feel comfortable doing, and also, lastly, a fix for the fact that no matter how expert you are or how expert you become, you can never guarantee your copy’s performance one hundred percent, which of course can be one of those things that does make pricing challenging, particularly from a mindset point of view.

Now Abby, shared some really, generous beautiful insights into her challenges with pricing inside of the Slack group. And one of them was this, my secret wish would be for someone to review my end to end service and copy, and then give me a number. Congratulations, your work is worth this many dollars. And I was just wondering, does that wish resonate with anyone in here?

Yeah. I mean, that that’s certainly be awesome if it was that great porta book.

Alright.

This looks like about, you know, five hundred bucks an good stuff and go ahead and go out and get it, you know.

Yep. And Randall, I think I saw your mouth moving, but you’re on mute. Sorry.

Oh, I was, like, yeah. And my my machine’s breathing a little heavy, so I actually missed a bit what Nolan said.

Yeah, I don’t know if my statement would have that many x’s at the end. Monday maybe, but, yeah.

I love that. Yep. Cool. And thumbs up from Julian. Yeah. Awesome. I feel like it is such a normal desire to have because, of course, it is such a great idea to be able to outsource those things that are really uncomfortable for us, and to have someone else word or valuation to stand behind, when you are quoting a price for a project, and I think there’s a lot less mindset in talking about pricing if you’re working inside of an agency or another business, than when you’re actually creating your own prices for yourself as a service provider, So just wanted to put that out there to help normalize this, and then deep start to dig into this a little bit more.

So the pricing is about more than ROI, and ROI is about more than money.

So one of the objections I always get, when I’m working with coaching clients inside my own programs, is that because you write launch copy and for you, you know, it’s so easy to draw a really direct line of ROI between your work and the money made for that business, which is true. It is in launches. You know, you have so many data points, and you can, you know, quite easily, get a pretty solid idea of your impact on that business’ revenue from that project.

But of course, ROI is about a lot more than money. So let’s dive into these two points to start with.

So factors that influence pricing include everything from your target market and of course there is a ceiling for a certain type of golf with a certain type of client, and I always like to make this point because I feel that sometimes there can just be that overwhelming advice that comes out you to just continually raise your rates, raise your rates, raise your rates, but the fact is that there is a point at which you will max out, rates if you’re doing the same kind of project with the same kind of client. So at that point, something needs to shift and change, whether that’s the service you’re offering or the client who you’re servicing.

Supply and demand, obviously, also influences pricing, and I think this, folds in nicely to everything you’re doing inside in terms of really, getting known and building your expertise, because of course, you know, someone like Joe, who is obviously incredibly well known and respected in the copywriting world. I’m sure she has far more projects coming at her than she can accept. So, having less supplied than its demand obviously means that, you can charge higher rates, because you are a scarce resource.

Comtaining offers also matter, particularly in terms of how yours compares, whether that is the fact that it’s you who’s actually offering that service and in your prospect’s eyes, that makes it a more valuable thing, or whether it’s because, you know, your has a more holistic approach or they get more, deliverables, whatever that might look like, positioning, which is your ability to actually communicate your offer in terms of its features, benefits, any guarantees you can offer, those comparisons too with your competitors can often be really, really key in good positioning, and of course also the social proof so that you can prove that, you know, people are actually very likely to get, the results that you are talking about, as you promote your offer.

So the other major factor that influences pricing is, of course, you, so your financial needs and goals, the way you want to work the clients you want to work with, the expertise you’re willing to build, the demand you’re able to create, and, of course, the price you’re confident charging So in other words, all that mindset stuff that comes alongside of all the positioning stuff on the first slide.

So I think, you know, It can help full of things that were on the previous slide to think about something as simple as like the cheese cabinet at your local supermarket. You know, there’s a whole range of different options there, and each of those are positioned for a certain market. You know, they’ll be the cheap five dollar block of cheese that, you know, might be targeted towards families or students or whoever, and there might be the fancier, you know, rounds of brie that are twelve dollars a pop that obviously have a different target market, and they are positioned and packaged, etcetera accordingly.

So that can be sort of a helpful metaphor I think start thinking through the positioning of your offer and the price it should be given who it’s for, what it offers, etcetera, etcetera.

We will obviously be diving into everything on this slide, in a few more minutes, but while we’re talking about the more, I guess, practical elements of pricing, I wanted to just spend a couple of minutes talking about non monetary ROI because I know for some of you in the group, the line between your work and money made for your clients is harder to draw or sometimes not even that relevant.

So So other really valuable things that clients can get from the kind of work that we in this group provide are things like competence or legitimacy so for example, if someone is an excellent service provider, but they have a website that they built themselves two years ago on a dodgy like WordPress template, you know, being able to, have a website that’s professionally done messaged professional copy, etcetera, can really help with that sense of legitimacy around their business and their work.

Clarity as well. So often, even working, as I do with launch clients are being able to get real clarity on what it is they’re offering and being able to have the words with which to communicate that can be credibly valuable because it allows them to do things like appear on podcasts or on stages and talk about their business and their work, a lot more easily.

Opportunity, of course. So, you know, if you’re able to provide a client with a service that sort of helps them go up a level or become more visible, there’s going to be in all likelihood more opportunities come their way. There can also be things like customer or client status action. So example, for example, if you optimize UX, so if you’re working with a business on their onboarding sequence, for example, and didn’t have one before, that optimized UX, even though it comes after the point of sale, can help with things like retention, etcetera, etcetera.

So note that all of these can and often do lead to monetary gains, it’s just that the line between them is less direct or harder to measure. So if you are working in a space with one or more of your offers where the ROI isn’t necessarily all about money, or it may be kind of about money, but you’re like, how do I actually prove or measure this? Here are some tips. So find out what matters to your prospects and why.

So for example, if a prospect says to you, I just wanna site that makes me look look legit. Like, I’m over this dodgy DIY version I’ve had for the last year and a half, make sure that you ask them. Okay. What will that allow you to do? Why is that important to you right now? Because then you’ll get to the point where they might say something like, that way I’ll be more likely to pitch myself for those bigger deal opportunities. You know, I’ll be likely to put myself front of, the bigger deal clients, or I’ll reach out to pitch more in person events, whatever that might look like to them.

So, of course, in that scenario, if your client is doing more pictures and they have the assets to back them up, whether that is the words to talk about what it is they actually do and what they offer and what their expertise is, or, again, a website in this example that actually displays their for these, illegitimacy, words from, you know, clients who they’ve done really amazing work with, that equals more chances of lending gigs, which equals greater exposure, more leads, and ideally more revenues. So as you can see, in a scenario like this, the line between the you do and the money your client stands to make from it is quite removed, but in this situation, it still is there.

So what you wanna do is once you’ve identified that, assuming you close the project, you know, it’s actually then go back and close the loop. So remember to ask about those things once the project wraps and there’s been opportunity for these desires to be realized. So, I mean, ideally you don’t wanna ask for feedback about your work, you know, two days after you submit because there would have been no chance for it to be liven out in the wild and helping their client, helping your client achieve all these goals that they have for it.

But that way, if there is a line to draw between your work and dollars made, you’ve got a really concrete way to do it. Right? You’ll have a testimonial. You’ll have social proof, which you can then leverage, throughout your assets and your online presence and in your sales process trial. And even if there’s no line to draw, which again, no problem at all, people will pay good money for things that are not all about money and profit, you still have proof of the outcomes that matter.

So just just a little reminder that ROI can and often does look different to purely monetary things, and I think getting an understanding of this stuff can also help with your positioning in your USPS. So for example, even though I worked in launches, one thing my clients will very regularly say about working with me is that I just took everything off the plate, their plate, and made their launch so low stress and so easy and almost enjoyable. And I found that has been a really valuable piece of the puzzle for me to leverage my social footprint in my marketing to help me land more clients and specifically more of the clients that I wanna work with, and of course that has nothing to do with the the actual money made.

Alright. Diving a little bit deep now into the more mindset side of pricing.

So Abby also shared that I’m craving external validation and permission to charge more. But there’s still a feeling of who am I to ask for all this money.

Angelian, you said that you sort of are earning more towards side of being like you’re undercharging. So this may hit home for you.

I don’t know if you’re free to give me a thumbs up if it does and, you know, ignore me if it doesn’t, and no one may It does.

Okay. Awesome. And Nolan little nod there, I think, from you too. This sounds like an resonant sometimes.

Sometimes I’m like, oh, this is awesome, you know, and then I’m like, yeah, my goodness. This, but then, you know, the KPIs tend to speak for them ourselves, or or sometimes they don’t, you know.

Yeah.

That’s the beauty of our the nature of our work, you know.

That’s why we test too.

Absolutely. Yeah. Testing, oh my god. So much value in that process.

And Randall, I think you might have been about to say something? So you unmute?

Well, when I was, yeah, on the market, definitely trying to figure out, Yeah. Why should somebody pay me this kind of cash?

Mhmm.

Yep. Yes. I think almost every business owner has this worry at one time or another, and it can be quite a persistent question. And I think again, this is one of the things that is really problematic about the advice of charging what you’re worth So let’s dive into this. So first up, two quick statements, your work does not equal your worth, as a human being, as a person, and your business doesn’t equal you. So what I mean by both of these statements, this is an example that I hope is relatable, When you buy KFC, are you thinking about paying the kernel or are you thinking about buying the chicken?

So I think it’s just so important to really set the right frame for the exchange because that’s what pricing is. Right? It’s about picking the number or learning on the number that is a fair exchange for the work the outcomes that you’re going to be able to offer the person purchasing.

So remember that your prospects aren’t buying you, right? It’s not a reflection of your worth as a human being, lot of reflection of, you know, how much an hour with you is worth as a person.

They’re buying a product And in many cases, also an experience, right? And this can be part of how you differentiate yourself and part of how you add real value to the people that you serve. That you offer with clear expectations around the exchange, including the process, the likely outcomes, and what you’ll do to minimize risk So, I mean, I think as you can probably tell by this statement, the best pricing and the best conversations around pricing are really transparent. Right? It’s about both parties being able to make a really informed decision on, is this worth the money that this person is charging?

So I think if you are ever getting stuck on questions like, oh god, can I really charge this much? Come back to this, and just remember that to set to set your sights on this, and to not worry about anything beyond this, because this is the question that you are answering whenever you pricing, a product or a service or a program.

I wanna dive into internal narratives here, particularly those around worth and what you deserve, you notice I have both of those words in quotations, I think throughout this whole presentation because I think they’re quite loaded, quite loaded terms.

So I think the fact of the matter is that most of us have stumbled into copywriting, and there’s no formal universal process of accreditation. Right? It’s not like if you’re a doctor, for example, or a therapist where you have to meet certain requirements and also maintain, a currency within that industry, right, you have to do, while listing Australia, you certainly have to attend a certain number of training and get a certain number of hours of supervision to be able to maintain a license that says that, yes, this person is qualified, and adequate to continue practicing. That does an existing copywriting, right?

So in other words, it’s largely up to us as individuals to view ourselves as being up to task, which means that the stories we tell ourselves about who we are and how we operate can be hugely influential.

Both in really positive, facilitative ways, but unfortunately more often, in ways that are quite restrictive or limiting.

So in tonal narratives, this comes from the world of psychology, which is what my background is in. I worked as a therapist for a number of years before I stumbled into copywriting, and I used to do a lot of narrative therapy with my clients as well. But basically, these are the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves and they are hugely influential because they do all sorts of things from shaping our identities to giving events in our lives, meaning They also tell us what we deserve, what we’re capable of, what our purpose is, and what our future should look like, and really at the crux of it, they influence the way we think feel and behave.

So for example, someone who has an internal narrative that I’m a slow learner is going to be less likely to seek and accept opportunities that put them in stretch and under pressure than someone who has an internal narrative that I always figure it out. So again, there’s a difference there between the internal narrative, which is what’s going on inside here, and the actions that we’re taking in the world, but there is a direct link between the two.

So therefore, in this scenario, person a, the I’m a slow learner is going to grow in skill and confidence more slowly than person b, and this is regardless of their expertise or ability. Right? So these stories we tell ourselves often have no burnt and no bearing on how qualified we are but they do have a huge influence on how we act and how we show up in the world and also, of course, how we approach our pricing and those conversations around that and the feelings that we have around that. So if you need I I wanna stop here and just ask if Any of you have any insight into what some of those internal narratives are for you, particularly when it comes to how they may influence your pricing.

And if it helps, like, as a personal example, when I first started copywriting, I came from an industry from psychotherapy that was highly regulated you know, I had postgraduate degree. I was registered with the relevant body here in Australia, etcetera, etcetera. There were so many checkpoints for me to go to, and then all of a sudden was in this profession that really just relied on me saying, Hey, I’m a copywriter now.

So for the long time, the first probably twelve, eighteen months of been in business, one of my internal narratives was like, you know, no one’s qualified me for this. So that was something that really impacted how I showed up the kind of work that I accepted and sought out and also the price of the decisions that I made. So I’m just wondering, Nolan Randall, Julian, is there anything coming up for any of you in terms of some of these stories that might be going around in your heads.

Here’s the I think for me, it was a matter of the question of selling. What was the big story?

And that, I, you know, growing up I’m much more close to identify with my dad than I do with my mom. My mom was in real estate.

She sold and sold and sold, all the time, you know, dinner after dinner, you know, I mean, not quite that bad, but, you know, She slept tonight.

And, And so I didn’t wanna be in sales. That was a big part of who I thought I was.

Mhmm.

And then when I left the academy and went to sales, that was that was hard.

And finding that strategy, you know, and you know, tapping into people’s needs rather than, and, you know, how I could provide solutions, that was hard. It was really hard. So not quite, I think, in terms of, this example, exactly. But, yeah, that that story, until I switch, from the selling to the solutions part. It took a while.

So Yes. Totally. And I know, and I think that’s a really great example. And maybe it’s not specific the pricing, but definitely to the process of lending clients, you know, because if you have a narrative that, like, I’m not a salesperson or, you know, even something like sell selling is unethical, and I didn’t know if that was quite correct for you or selling is IKE, that’s obviously going to impact the way that you show up to those conversations and those tasks. So that’s an awesome example. Thanks, Randall.

Nolan, I see you unmuted yourself.

Oh, yeah. No. Sorry. Yeah. No. That was that was awesome. Really well said that. Yeah.

So for me, I have two that instantly come to mind. And one that I know is, like, a more positive one, which is, like, I’m good with analytics and math because you mentioned real estate. That’s like what my background is, and I had that same thing where I hated the idea of sailing because before that, even I did, like, accounting and bookkeeping fellowship, used to crunching numbers and things like that. And then when I got into real estate, I was like, oh, man.

I I have to and I I’m okay with talking with people. I’m completely fine with that. I mean, the the fact that it’s, like, I need to be a little bit pushy. So what I found is a strategy that works for me to get people sold is, like, similar to you doing copywriting, you know, you speak to the one odd And for me, that was people who were like data geeks and wanted to know, like, macroeconomic facts about, like, the local market and things like that.

So I just spoke to that and I I stuck with that. And then the one thing that this is a little more specific to pricing is that, like, holy shit, I just made, you know, more than a hundred dollars in an hour for x amount of hours. Like, I’m not used to that, you know. It’s like it’s kinda crazy.

Mhmm. But then again, it’s like you said, just going back on the, the internal narrative kinda thing. It has to kinda it’s really strong stuff, but it’s, like, just kinda resonating right now. Like, because it goes into the subconscious that you build yourself where it’s, like, either I’m a slow learner, so I’m going to go about this differently. Like, you’re setting yourself up for these kind of things.

So Yeah. Absolutely.

If they’re positive or negative or both or confusing, or jumble of all.

Right?

Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s lots of gray in this. They’re not necessarily always positive or always negative. There can be some which can go either way depending on the situation in the scenario, and the events that are unfolding around you.

Right.

Anything you wanted to share Julian and no pressure if you if you nothing’s coming or you’d rather not. That’s okay.

Nothing’s specific. It’s going to mine right now, but I’m I’m sure I have some of it.

No. No worries.

So I think one of the things that, is really useful to keep in mind, I think, when you are starting to spend some time trying to identify and then work with or work through those internal narratives that you may have that can get in the way of pricing and even selling as Randall and Ola Nubo shared, and I guess particularly if you’re thinking about any narratives around your worth, the narrative of I don’t know enough, which can be a common one if you’re in phase of learning a lot about copywriting or how to run a business, for example, that can be just as limiting as a narrative of I know it all. So people will often think that the answer to, like, not knowing enough is getting to the point magically somehow across some huge goal where all of a sudden you have all the information, you have all the answers, and you’re just like an infallible expert.

Both of those narratives, I think, are just as limiting because they both block learning and growth, and furthermore they rarely close sales. Right? The I don’t know enough person is likely to show up as being quite nervous, or maybe a little bit unqualified or, not as a partner, which if anyone watched my first training around sales calls, that is what good clients want. They want a partner, that they can work with towards the goal.

And someone who has a narrative of I know it all is likely to show up as being a bit of an arrogant dickhead, which is, again, someone that people probably don’t want to work with, right? And I think the, I know it all one is all often have blinkers on. They’ll be, convinced that their way is the right way, and they won’t have the flexibility to respond to challenges as they unfold, which let’s be honest, it is rare that you have a project that goes one hundred percent smoothly, and that everything that you think you’re gonna do at the beginning of the project is exactly what you do at the end.

There are often bumps and humps to overcome along the way.

So a far more fruitful narrative is I trust myself to figure it out, and I think one of the beautiful things about this is it’s takes away, the wait time between maybe not knowing enough and, like, having to magically somehow know everything, right? As you can be in the middle here and just be curious enough and open enough and have enough knowledge about what it is that you’re doing and who it is you’re working with to be able to make really informed decisions as you go. I think it also takes the pressure off, because it’s not about like being fully qualified and fully ready every single time for every single opportunity that comes knocking at your door, but it’s about saying, okay, this is gonna be a bit of a stretch or a bit of a challenge for me.

That’s a good thing. Like, let’s do this because I do back myself to actually be able to work through this in real time. And this kind of attitude is so appealing to clients too because It’s a bit like if you, I don’t know, like some plumbing in your house breaks and you don’t know what the problem is, but you know that your tap’s leaking and you can’t fix it, you know, it is a nice, safe feeling to be able to book a plumber, even if they can’t tell you over the phone, okay, it sounds like this is the problem. If they’re like, okay.

Yeah. I’m not sure, but I’ll definitely be able to work it out. Like, you know, I’ll come and have a look, and I’ll identify the problem, and I’ll, and I’ll give you a fix. So that can also be a helpful metaphor I think too when you’re thinking through what this narrative can look like in practice.

So in terms of how you build that narrative or more helpful narratives around, blocks you might have around things like sales, etc.

The key here is, a process called reauthoring, that’s what we call it in therapy, but basically it involves looking for exceptions to whatever limiting narratives you have around skills, your ability, or your worth, or selling, and mounting a case for more facilitative ones. So, single questions to ask here, if one of the narratives that does show up for you is around, you know, a lack of knowledge or skills or experience, can be one of you impressed a client or peer with your expertise, When have you surprised yourself with your know how or your ability, when have you got great results for a client or for yourself, don’t forget that often so many of the skills we use in our copywriting, projects are also applicable to what we’re doing in our own businesses.

When have you successfully tackled a new challenge or expanded your skills or expertise on the go, when has your work just flowed?

And for all of these questions, how did that feel? And focusing on the feeling of those experience. This is really important because as I’m about to show you, that helps, really rewire the brain in a more substantial, way.

Some other questions that you could ask. If you are stuck as, I mean, Randall, it sounds like you’re past this now, Nolan, I think you might be as well, but for anyone who’s an idiot watching the replay, and you identified with, what those two have shared about some feelings around sales and selling, you know, some of these questions could be, for example, when did a sales conversation feel more like service, for example, or when did having making a sale result in solving someone’s problem. So trying to find things that are exceptions to the rule or the idea or the story or the narrative in your head that, you know, selling is icky or like I’m not a salesperson, like finding exceptions to that so that you can thicken that experience.

And ideally, over time, and, with repeated, focusing on these exceptions to whatever that narrative might be, building those neural pathways in your brain so that you’re more wired, quite literally, like in a physical way, to expect those experiences, and therefore to act and respond to events in a way that aligns with those rather than the more, restrictive narratives that you may have at play.

So just some quick neuroscience here, and this may be old news to some of you, but our brains do have a bias towards both encoding and retaining more negative experiences, because from an evolutionary perspective, it’s important for us to have an almost automatic response to danger. If we’re in a situation that is dangerous, we wanna be able to respond without thinking. Crossing the road, there’s a car coming at you. You wanna be able to jump out of the way, without really having to think, oh, there’s a car. Oh, it’s coming quite fast and, you know, get hit.

So for that reason, unfortunately, it is the more negative experiences, which do make more substantial neural pathways in our brains. So these are often actually called in the in the literature channel. I love this term, superhighways, because those neural pathways are so established so thick and so smooth, it actually makes it very easy, for our brains to, like, send signals and synapses down those pathways. There’s very little resistance unfortunately, they’re often thicker than the pathways that we have for more positive experiences, which of course creates a bit of a chicken and egg type scenario, because not only are we wired to, respond to those things more quickly and more readily and to just jump down that path, we’re also more wired to attend to those things. So again, it’s about how we view and interpret the world and how we respond and behave based on those interpretations.

So, the good news, as you will no doubt, know, is that our brains plastic. Right? It’s never too late to change some of the wiring in our brain.

And, the process of reauthoring, so of spending time attending to noticing reliving dwelling.

That’s funny. I feel like you really get the in life to dwell on something, but dwelling on those more positive experiences, or those exceptions to whatever more challenging narratives you have around pricing and worth and value and expertise, etcetera.

That can be visualized as a small tree, growing Well, sorry, put your little lovely heads in the way, growing an increasing number of limbs as clients notice and re experience moments that can be connected to the preferred neural network, While this network may remain thin or sketchy at first, through repeated neural linking and firing, it will progressively expand in thickness and speed of connection.

So basically all of this stuff, I know it might sound quite woo woo, but it’s based in science, and I think the really cool thing is that it’s based in like physical so stuff that if you had access to functional MRIs, you would be able to see over time those connections thickening and becoming the preferred, preferred course of response inside of your brain. So it really is about changing the way you think in order to change the way that you act.

So the last thing I wanted to just touch on here, and then let’s have a nice juicy discussion. If yes, we’ll have time, on whatever’s come up for you. So this is the last thing that I’d be shared in Slack, and she said I have this comfort around charging good people for projects and I can’t guarantee they’ll make back their investment. What if I do everything I can to make the project a success, and it’s not enough?

Is this ever something that comes up for anyone when you are either selling a project, pricing project, or delivering a project?

Yeah. I relate to this one.

Yep.

Cool. Certainly. Yeah.

Yep.

And thumbs up from Randall. Yeah. And I mean, it is one of the facts about, you know, the work that we do. Right? There’s never any one hundred and ironclad guarantee, even if you do your best work, that it’s going to get the exact results that your client wants.

So because you can never fully guarantee results, think about what you can guarantee when you’re selling your offers or your products. So maybe it’s your process or parts of it. So for example, you can guarantee. So let’s say that you’re gonna do voice of customer research or you can guarantee that the client is going to see a messaging document before you go ahead and write the first copy asset. So they’ll be, you know, on board with the messaging and where it’s come from, etcetera, etcetera.

It could be that you’re guaranteed a round of optimization. And again, there’s no guarantee that that round of optimization is going to get to the promised land of results, but of course, the guarantee that you’re going to come back in at the relevant period of time and optimize what you can, you know, with the idea of improving the results that your client is seeing, that can be a really powerful thing to guarantee. Or it could even be something like a sixty minute strategy call say mid launch, often that’s a time when clients can start flipping out because there’s that mid launch dip or one month after the website goes live or whatever makes sense for the work that you do.

So those are just some ideas, and I think Whatever it is that you do want to guarantee about the work that you do, just make sure that it’s really specific and measurable or check offable because these things give you and your prospects confidence in your ability to deliver on it. Like it’s going to be something that both you and your client can confidently and honestly say, yep, I did that. That’s done. I’ve done what I’ve promised.

And I think by doing that, it does help, you get free of the discomfort around not being able to promise hundred percent the outcomes because you are promising something that you can absolutely control.

Did I deliver this part of my process? Did I show up for that sixty minutes strategy session? Did I do that round of optimizations? Both you and your client can say, yes, and I think that removes the friction around that and allows you to step into charging rates that are appropriate for the work that you’re doing.

And this is a final note on this guarantee stuff.

If you need help thinking through, what this might look like, this could be a helpful metaphor, imagine you order eggs benedict with smoked salmon at a cafe you’re trying out for the first time, but ends up being a bit meh, like it’s just not very tasty, whatever it might be. You’ve really got no form of recall right, other than to make an agreement with yourself never to go back there to get Brecky again. But if it comes out with him, you can then let the waiter know, hey, this isn’t what I ordered, feel pretty confident that the situation will be rectified. So you want to create this kind of clarity, for your prospect or for your client with whatever guarantee you So it’s something again that’s really specific, and really easily be able been able to be checked off as like either delivered or not.

Because again, that sort of certainty really increases both buyer confidence and also seller confidence, and can help you stand behind rates that are higher, and sell the sell those things more confidently. Alright.

So I wanted to leave some time for questions and also just diving into some of this stuff because obviously mindset stuff is, often quite personal, and see one little thing in the chat here.

Mylan wraps. What’s a mylan wrap, Randall?

Well, I think it’s the myelin that wraps around your neurons to Oh. The explanation.

If I I just Yeah.

What?

Think I’m hoping that the mylan wrapped around my memory of reading this awhile back. I was hoping you could confirm that.

I actually can’t. Sorry. Mylan wraps. It might I’ll I’ll I’ll check it out for you.

No big deal. There’s no No.

But I will. I’ll check it out for you. It’s not ringing any bills, but it definitely doesn’t mean that it’s not part of this process.

So let me I’ll I’ll get back to you in Slack.

Any questions, comments, anything anyone wants to workshop in terms of, you know, their thoughts around pricing, their specific challenges, Yeah.

I got a quick question on the the guarantee kind of thing. I think it, and it wasn’t your I have in my notes here somewhere.

So this might actually be voice of coach rather than voice of consumer, but I think, I have something in here that says, when you’re presenting an offer to someone, you could say something I’m a hundred percent certain that this is where we should begin testing, right, rather than saying, I think this is a hundred percent gonna get yield these specific results. Right?

Hundred percent. Yes.

Gotcha. And that’s such a reassuring thing, I think, for both of you, and I think that’s such a great way to have coming across as the expert that you are. Right? And yet it flips the frame in a way that doesn’t set you up for trouble or your client up for disappointment down the track.

Right? Because even with all the, you know, the proper data, sometimes, you know, we just need to test a different angle, and maybe that angle does three hundred percent better than the other, just off some small difference. Right?

Yep. Hundred percent. Love that. That was a very easy question.

That’s good, Noel. I like that. That’s nice.

Right. Voice of Coke, BOC. I love that we dove into some neuroscience because, my thing is all about, like, behavioral marketing strategy. And I’m reading this book right here. It’s all about behavioral science. It talks about some of that stuff you were going into.

So I was just like, wow, that’s crazy that I literally have this my address, you were talking about that.

How good? What a good coincidence?

Go ahead.

Anything else coming up for anyone?

More of a a thought to share rather than, like, a a question, but I do like, how you framed it is, and and additional to just like the ROI, how there’s a lot of not necessarily tangible measurements that go into your pricing, but things like, you know, the experience and the product. Right? And for my a dimensionalization thing. Like, I was just in Disneyland a few months ago, and, like, there’s a thing you can buy there where it’s, like, you can build your own lightsaber. Right? And it’s, like, a pretty good quality lightsaber. You’re mainly buying the experience because you can buy a a similar way higher quality light saber for much less.

Yes. Oh, yeah. I love that. I also really wanna go and do that.

Sorry. Yeah.

It seems like I missed out on it. I was like, okay, next time.

That’s the way it is.

Oh, but yeah, definitely.

It’s, I think, yeah, the advice that, like, good pricing is all about ROI, I think, Again, that’s, like, not nowhere near nuanced, nuanced enough, to be a helpful statement, but also I think it puts you in the frame of reference of thinking about money whereas, of course, ROI is often about so much more than money.

So it’s just about finding what the what the value in that service or that offer or that product is, and yeah, being open to that being a largely intangible thing.

So, you know, for example, I mean, coaching is a great example. Right? I mean, yes. Often, you know, when you work with a coach, that will end up in you making more profit, more revenue, etcetera, but the process by which that happens is often a bit indirect because it’s working on things like your mindset or it’s working on things that might be more process related. So yeah, just thinking through what that looks like for the work that you do can be really helpful, not just in you being able to set a better price, but also in you being able to communicate, the value and the position of your offer.

Right. No. That makes sense for sure. And also, like, to touch more on the the ROI, there’s like a a cost, not necessarily return, but, like, say, like, I think Ryan was talking about one of his workshops when you’re, like, productizing one of your services.

Not only needs to be simple for them to understand what it is. It needs to be simple for them to implement because you have to take into consideration the time and the team’s bandwidth, right, that you’re sending this over. And, like, what other systems do they have to do to juggle in your thing that’s gonna help them out. Like, is that gonna be easy?

Is that something they can do just like that?

Like, we have to consider that cost as well.

And another ROI, I think maybe it could even be like relationship with a client. Right?

Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely. Yes.

I mean, the experience, I guess, of working with can also be hugely valuable, or it could be hugely taxing, right, if that is not a good fit.

So, yeah. Right.

I’m sorry, but I’ve been like I had a headache so it’s like horizontal up right now.

I’m just gonna say you look lovely.

Yeah.

I know.

I was, like, lying down.

I have this has been really great, Christy. Thank you so much. No problem. I have kind of a more specific, like, scenario situation.

That I posted about in Slack, a few weeks ago I think you responded to because I was like, we’re coming up on the end of the year.

I was going to raise my rates for Mhmm.

Specifically my VIP days. Like, I’m fine with my big project rates.

Like, I’m raising those all the time when I, like, I feel good about those rates.

Awesome.

But I’ve just done the same VIP day, right, since I started doing them. Basically, I’ve done so many, and I even had, like, I think I shared in Slack, like, I had this client who had been doing regular days with multiple times a month for the past year straight, and he always he’s like, you need you you’re way under charging. You should be charging way more, like, gotten tons of results for him. Like, he’s like, you’re my secret weapon. You should raise your weights, not for me, of course, but for everyone else.

And, you know, and I I also, if you I just, like, haven’t because they’re so easy for me to sell. I don’t I don’t know if that’s really like a a mindset thing in terms of what I think it’s worth. It’s more just I think a fear of like that people just won’t pay. I don’t know.

I don’t know how to articulate it. It’s like people just don’t have that budget. That’s not what they’re expecting to pay and so I’m Like, okay. So I’ll just sorry.

I’m like a little incoherent because I’m have a headache, but No. Can I get through it?

So I told so I I did I doubled my rates and Joanna said to at least double them. She was like, oh, you should four or five x them. That felt too scary. So I doubled them.

And I told this client in particular.

And even though he’d said all those things, he was like, whoa, like, you know, doubling your way. It’s like, and I just didn’t didn’t say much. I was just like, yeah, you know, it’s overdue.

Mhmm.

And he had had some things. He had messaged me about wanting to do a day and then I told him I doubled my rates then he was like, okay. Let’s hold off. I need to be like smarter about how I use you. Mhmm. But now I have to hurt.

But, like, we were still in contact, but, like, he hasn’t that’s work that I didn’t get because of that.

Gotcha.

And I think I’m struggling with that because well, I mean, just post holidays, like, I was sick for all of December. It didn’t work at all. Like, got. I’m very light on clients right now.

So I’m like, I’m I’m in this weird middle ground, like, the middle ground of raising your prices where I’m like, I know my current prices, like, it’s so easy for me to sell it. Mhmm. But then raising it, I’m like, I don’t wanna raise it and then not be able to get any work. Yes.

Yes.

And I think I’m like in this.

I don’t wanna be in the scarcity mindset, but I’m also like, trying to find that balance because I had another sales call yesterday too where I know I could have sold my old rate, but I pitched the new rate And he was like, he wouldn’t say no, but it, like, gave him more pause. And, like, he has to think about it now. You know? Yes. Yes.

I don’t know.

I don’t know what my question is exactly, but just like this kind of weird in between, like, trying to figure out what the right Mhmm.

Rate is or if you have any, like, thoughts on how to navigate that.

Yeah. For sure. And I’d love to hear, Nolan Randall sorts too. So two key things came up for me.

First of all, just because something is easy, it does not mean it’s not valuable. And I think that’s the trap we all fall into. But like, oh, but it, like, takes me like no time or no effort. Like, I can’t charge.

I can’t charge, you know, five thousand dollars for that when it’s like a, you know, one thousand dollar effort.

The fact that it’s easy often just means you’re very good at that thing, and therefore the quality that the client is going to receive is actually going to be worth a lot more than what you’re charging for at the moment. So that’s maybe a mindset thing to think about. The second thing is that I wonder if you’re now in the situation, that I touched on very briefly towards the start of the workshop where you will reach a ceiling with a certain type of offer and a certain type of client. So is it that I have no doubt at all that your service is worth what you’re charging for it now.

My question is whether you’re pitching it to the wrong people, and I don’t know whether that resonates I think that was my concern originally when I posted in clap in Slack.

That was my original concern, was that, like, I feel fine charging those rates. Like, I I feel confident and what I’m delivering. I’m just not confident in the client the types of clients that are contacting me right now. And because I haven’t done any authority building, like, I’m not I only have access to a certain level of client. Yes.

So I think that’s that was my concern.

So now I’m wondering, I’m like, do I backtrack? Like, what do I do? You know, like wait until I’ve yeah. I guess that’s my that’s a good point. I think that’s the thing that’s happening right now.

Yes. I would also suggest life just on a purely practical level, you know, giving old mate who told you to raise your rates and then was like, oh, I need to think more about how the, you know, strategically, that’s how to use your time now. Getting back in touch with him, and you could even offer to help him plan that out, like, to get because I think once you get that first day rate sold at that price. Like, it’s gonna feel amazing. And you’re gonna have the proof that you can sell it. You’re also gonna have, I guess, proof of what someone gets out of that experience that price. And I think then that is almost like the window into reaching more clients at that level.

So that that’s a very practical tip, but, not only the model. Is there anything else that came up for you guys?

Well, Julian, this that sounds like this client would be an excellent, case study.

Yeah. Definitely.

In the process of doing the case study, you’d be reminding this client how much value you gave them.

Right.

And so that would be kind of a you know, soft sell reminding, like, what is missing from his work at this moment.

Yeah.

Right? So I don’t know. That might if if that’s something you like to use for, social proof.

Definitely. Yeah. The only reason I’ve held off on study for his clients was we’re still doing ongoing work together, and he’s, like, about to launch a whole another thing. So I’ve just been kinda waiting.

Until the right moment for that just because there are like more things happening.

And I do think, like, he’ll still he’s definitely still, like, not gonna not work with me anymore. It’s just like it kind of, you know, there’s a little bit of a shakeup, but I will say I so I’ve only He’s the only person I told the other other my other clients, like, they kind of come and go. But, I I had two sales calls this week, The first one was a client that, like, I even told them upfront that I was like, I don’t think this is a good fit, but they still really wanted to talk. So I was like, okay.

I’ll talk to you. Still thought it wasn’t a good fit, but, like, he was willing to pay he was, like, budget not an issue I told him the day rate, told him my project rates. He was, like, not a problem, but I still turned it down. So I guess I did technically, like, sell it without selling it, or I had someone who would be willing to sell it.

So I guess I kinda forgot about that until now.

But so I was just focusing on the ones I was trying to sell them and couldn’t, but Yep.

So, yeah, I got through some it’s just a weird what’s that?

Sorry. No. You go.

It’s just, yeah, it’s just a weird I’m in a weird in between place right now. Because my my project rates aren’t published, so I can I raise them all the time just on the sales? Like, I kinda just determine, you know, we’ll raise them. I don’t have to tell anyone or announce it. This is the first time I’ve done it where it’s like a set price that’s increasing.

Yes.

Two two quick things. First of all, I just I think it’s awesome. I think it’s so, so, so, so good that you still turned away that client, even though they would have been willing to pay the rate.

It’s never worth working with a bad fit client, even if you get the money, and you know that, but that’s just so good.

And secondly, I feel like maybe, like, a helpful way to think about what’s changed for the client who told you to raise your rates and is now sort of has not booked in another day at that rate since you raised it is it’s almost like you’ve changed the perception of yourself in his eyes. So you’ve gone from, like, you know, to use the cheese cabinet analogy again. I obviously love cheese. You’ve gone from like the super delicious like five dollar block that like didn’t just buy without thinking and like, oh my god, like, this is such a steal to, like, being the twelve dollar wheel of brie that, you know, you know, is delicious.

But like you now have to think a bit more carefully about when you’re going to invest in and and eat eat that, I guess, because it’s not as disposable.

So that’s not a bad thing, right, to increase your value and to own that is a good thing, but it has changed, I think, his perception of, like, booking and using you. So I’d definitely reach back out to him and just offer to be like, hey, like, I know you’ve got this new launch, whatever coming up, and I know that you do wanna together again, but you wanna be more strategic about how you use me since the investments increased. Like, did you wanna talk about that? Did you wanna hop on a thirty minute call and we can talk about that?

Yeah. That’s a really good that’s a really good suggestion. I’ll definitely do that.

Awesome. And let us know how it goes. I feel like sometimes the loops don’t get closed in and I’m like, oh, no. I wanna know. So please. Hello.

Yeah. Yeah. And know that was that did feel like like saying no to that other client, especially. So I I feel like I have it taken on projects before kind of with what you mentioned where it’s like, I can figure it out, but then being really it’s not so much that I don’t think I could figure it out.

It’s more just that I’ve taken on projects in the past when I’m like, I don’t have any other clients, and I know I can figure it out, but it stresses me out so much and I spend way too much time on it. And that’s the part I didn’t wanna do. I was like, I’m just not willing to be really stressed about a project even though I would figure it out because I will spend way too much time on it. You know?

Yes.

And then it’s But that’s not like the wind is like, I don’t wanna do that anymore.

I’m just not gonna take on. I’m gonna I’m gonna, like, believe that there are other things that I’m just making space for them.

So Yes.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Hey, Jill. Could you talk Jill, could you talk about your VIP day rate just for a minute or two?

Yeah. I’m actually teaching a four part in February done with you VIP day course for copy hackers. So you’ll see that coming up soon.

But, yeah, if you have is there did you have a certain question about it?

No. I again, I’m relatively new to the industry.

So I’m just wondering, like, what the general Oh, like, what it is?

Is that what you said? Just wondering what it is?

Yeah.

Oh, it’s just, it’s like a so I have my project there’s project rates that takes me, you know, six to eight weeks for a full website project. And then the my only kind of smaller offering is or someone can book me for a full day. So it’s like a full seven hours just dedicated to their project, that I have regularly. So they can kinda get on my calendar more quickly.

Understood.

Yeah.

So it’s kind of like an intensive session.

But this is basically on website copy or like, what is one of the variety of things will fall into that mix?

A variety of things. Some people do them for just one thing. I often do it for website.

Copy, but I’ll do it for smaller, like smaller projects that aren’t big enough for me to quote for. A lot of times, these plans have already worked with. So I already done all their research, and then they want something small that, like, isn’t worth my time to quote or plan. So I’ll just put it into a day or a half day.

I see. Thanks. Yeah.

Awesome. And just to maybe close a loop, julie, and so I feel like sorry, Anna. I feel like the you might be hitting up against a practical problem rather than a mindset problem because you’ve done the thing. You’ve raised the rate.

You’ve pitched it. Like, you’ve turned someone down even. So I think your mindset is correct. It’s just, yeah, you might maybe in a situation where you need to up level the people that you’re talking to in terms of prospects.

But I’d say, like, Old mate is definitely a shoe, and he just needs a nudge that was some Australian old nature shooting.

I’ll tell him that. I’ll tell him. Yeah.

So to to translate that, that means I think that that client is definitely gonna book with you. He just needs, yeah, a gentle knowledge to make that happen.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you for the yeah. Thank you for the suggestions.

No worries. Any final things from anyone?

No. Thanks for sharing. This was super helpful. Awesome. Yeah.

I appreciate you talking to you guys.

I really appreciate it. Definitely.

Yeah. Fine nice to see you all. This is great. Yeah, let’s keep chatting in slack, feel free to pin me with questions anytime. And, yeah, please let us know what happens, Dylan. I feel like the three of us will be here for other suggestions and also just keen to keen to follow the journey.

Cool. Thank you so much.

Alright, guys. Talk to you soon.

Worksheet

How to Systematize Your Business

Transcript

What we’re gonna cover today is is systemizing your business. And there’s there’s two approaches to any project or way of or so, oh, sorry, of any task or project that you wanna do. There’s a there’s a product way and then there’s a system way. And what I’m gonna do today is cover both.

Starting with project thinking. So, you know, this is from the project management Institute. So a project is a temporary endeavor specific start and end date. It produces a unique result in service.

It’s a set of structured tasks, activities, deliverables, executed to achieve a desired outcome. That’s the official definition of a project.

Definition of a system is an organized and structured process designed to be repeatable, de delegatable.

Say the word, potentially automated facilitating consistent and scalable results. So the beauty of a a project in a system, if if you if you really look at that closely, they both achieve an outcome.

Whether you take a project approach or a system approach, they’re both gonna achieve the same outcome, but with a systemized approach, there’s an added benefit of it’s repeatable.

You can delegate it. You can scale, and more importantly, it’s also consistent. So keep that in mind as I as I go through the, the presentation with you. Projects and system both achieve the same outcome.

It’s just the approach that you take, when you’re you’re trying to achieve that outcome. Okay? So, if you look at your business or any business that you’re starting freelancing, truthfully, it’s just a system that runs off of processes and procedures. So it’s systems within systems, and we’ll cover more of this as we go through, but that’s all it is.

We’re gonna go through, an example project. So I’m gonna I’m using two projects. One is cleaning a bathroom. Another one is cleaning, sorry, cooking, Thanksgiving dinner, then we’re gonna approach, a marketing plan as a system versus a project, and I’ll show you how we use this in our agency to productize. And then we’re gonna approach the authority plan that we’re working on now as a system instead of a project and sort of how it all comes together. Okay?

So if we’re approaching clean the bathroom as a project, we’re gonna create a typical gantt chart. That’s that’s one way that you can you can organize it. You break down the tasks, you you set a time, and then you you work on each task.

Another way to do it is, an action plan.

To clean the bathroom. It’s you start with your smart goal, you break it down, you decide on your action steps, you assign who’s responsible, and then you work on each one at a time. This is a little closer to a system, but it’s still project thinking. Okay?

Here’s another example of cleaning room. This is a a a con bond board. You have your to do doing review done. Each item under to do is a task that to complete it. So that’s project thinking.

Here’s another example of project thinking with cleaning the bathroom. This is a work breakdown structure You start with the high level deliverables, and then you break down each task, and then you work on one at a time. So that’s that’s project thinking. Now what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna approach cleaning a bathroom as a system, and the difference is subtle, but it it’s an important one. So A system has three components. There’s an outcome.

So the first step is you define the outcome. The second, there’s a process. So you outline the process, And then the third is you create procedures for each step in the process. That’s that’s how you make a system.

So we’ll go through this now. Here’s a little formula that you can use to help create your systems. If I process, then I’ll I will have successfully outcome. So let’s apply that to the bathroom.

If I clean the sink, the floor, the bathtub, the toilet walls, then I will have successfully cleaned the bathroom. So you have your process, you have your outcome.

Here’s a another example, a system on how to clean the bathroom. So the outcome is clean the bathroom. The process is you start to put the sink, the floor, the bathtub, the toilet, the walls. Now the difference now is that for each cleaning the sink, cleaning the floor, you have a procedure.

So now you have a how to clean the sink, how to clean the floor, how to clean the bathtub, how to clean the toilet, how to clean the walls and combined, you have a nice system that I can delegate to my son, which is how to clean the bathroom. I give him this instruction manual, he knows exactly what to do. It’s consistent. It’s predictable.

It’s scalable. That’s the difference between a system and a project.

Another we’ll give you an example is if I have a project, if I have a process, then I will successfully outcome is the formula, If I create a guest list, select a turkey, do the grocery shopping, cook the turkey, set the table, then I will have successfully hosted a Thanksgiving meal for my family.

Let’s approach this at a system, a system on how to host a Thanksgiving meal. So the outcome is host a Thanksgiving meal. The process is guest list, menu, groceries, turkey, table, but the difference is now we have how to guides, or you call them soaps or whatever whatever you wanna call them on how to create a guest list, to create a menu, how to, purchase groceries, how to cook a turkey, how to set a table, and that’s a system that now you can delegate to AI.

Same thing, which is actually, a thing right now, by the way. I don’t know if you guys saw this or not, but there’s a a robot that’s coming out right now that’ll actually cook you meals, which is really bizarre. Elon Musk just announced it. So that’s the difference between the oh, sorry. Go through here.

Oh, sorry. Where are we here?

Okay. So let’s let’s approach, a marketing plan as a system instead of a project. So this is an example of, a marketing plan that we implement for clients. We have a couple of key clients and every every client that we get, we we start, of course, with a a marketing plan and we break it down into different phases and then we sign a different deliverable.

Now if we took this as a project approach, what we would do is we come up with the the project plan, we create a gantt chart, We go through the gantt chart, but we’re gonna approach this as a system approach. Okay? So the first step, what we wanna do, and act actually gonna go through it with you right here, This is a live, setup of the actual client account that I’m showing you right now. This is a trello board. If you click through, you’re gonna see here the marketing plan, which I just showed you pulled up.

Now this isn’t a marketing plan, this is a marketing system, and we’re gonna apply that formula that I just showed you guys. So the goal, our goal is twenty five hundred patients. Okay? The process is the avatar, the USB, the GMB, and then the procedure If you click on this is now gonna be if you open it up, is gonna be a how to guide an optimized to optimize a a GMB profile. So open you up right now.

And these are all the steps from a to z, including a video, what to do, and it’s just a checklist. Okay? So that’s an example on how we and we do with this with all our clients. You can see that anything that’s done If you open it up, it links to a process.

Alright? And it’s part of a plan or a system. In this case, it’s the it’s the the marketing plan itself. Okay?

Does that make sense, everybody?

Yeah. No. Okay. Kids, we’re good.

Let’s do let’s approach, Joe’s building a an authority plan as a system versus a project. Okay?

You can approach this like a lot of people would is they would they would take this and they would say, okay, I’m gonna create a gantt chart. I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna do this. If you approach it as a system, then it’s the same thing.

You know, your goal is to it’s a process to achieve celebrity status. So I’m just giving a couple examples is I’m gonna develop my USB. I’m gonna launch a sub stack newsletter. I’m gonna start a podcast, then I will successfully achieve celebrity status in my one thing.

So that’s the outcome. This is the outcome where Joe has here. The process is just here. It’s you’re putting these into the steps and the procedure One of the things that I have here is a a evergreen funnel. So if I click on the evergreen funnel, that is literally a procedure, a soap, whatever you wanna call it, it’s a step by step guide that I can, delegate or automate at some point in the future. I just wait it opens up.

And it goes into detail on all the steps that you’re kinda like building down. Now this is, this is an example of a system. I wanna show how this kinda works, how we use it, sort of how it all comes together. So here is here is the the structure in an example, say, if you had a company, you have your finances in admin, you have your operations department, you have your sales and marketing department, and then each of these is a how to guide.

Okay? Now this right here is how to build an authority and achieve his celebrity status. That is Joe’s plan right here. Okay?

So this is your your system within the system, but if you scroll down, here’s your process, which is I’m gonna develop the USB. I’m gonna create the signature. Here, I’m gonna launch the substack, and each, step in the process is just a how to guide. Linking back to the Evergreen phonologist I showed you.

So that’s kinda how the business runs. Each of these is a system that then links to either a process or another system. And the advantage of that is I’ll show you how we we kinda comes together another opportunity. So here’s here’s a an example of, a process turned in a productized service.

So we have a system on how to launch an authority site. Okay?

That system within that is a process within the system because one of the steps that you need to do is you need to do an SEO audit Okay?

That we turned into a productized service, which we do for clients.

So you’re gonna see when you when you build out your systems within or you’d have a process, you can turn a system into a course.

An example would be Joe. You have a course on, guest posting and blogs. Correct? Yep.

Okay. So that would be how can we relate that? So if we approach this as a system, it it I would change this and say, I’m gonna guest post, which, of course, is in line with what, Joe suggests you do, then I’m gonna add that as a process. And now I’m gonna create a guide on how to do a guest post.

And I’m gonna document that guide inside of my system So now it’s repeatable.

And I can delegate that. I can automate it.

And I’m not gonna sit there and say, oh, how do I start? I’m not starting from scratch. But the advantage is now I can turn it into a course, which Joe just did. And on top of that, I can also turn it into a productized service if I want to. So the subtle, it is it’s a subtle difference, but in a nutshell it boils down to when you do approach something, make sure that your you’re approaching it as a system, not the project, with the key difference being instead of a project plan, create a guide or if you wanna hate calling it a soap, but an instruction manual that teaches someone the exact step by step process and how to how to do it.

And I’ll show you how what I would do in my in, in calendar right now. So here’s my calendar right now.

Say, and I’ll this is how, sorry, you’re I don’t do theme. I do time blocking. Right? So building a system, one of the goals is you wanna build on your authority status. So what I would do is, okay, that’s a system. I would block out time to do that. I would link to the system I’m creating, which is which is just a it’s a how to guide for now.

And then during that block of time, all I would do is work on the first step work on that system, which is what what I’m talking about, and that’s going through each step. So let’s say I was working on my Evergreen funnel, This way while it load while it loads.

As I’m working on my evergreen funnel, I would be turning that into a how to guide at the same time.

Right? Does that make sense? I’m not just I’m not just doing it, but I’m documenting each step of the process for that step within the system.

And by taking that approach, at the end, you have a step by step instruction manual that you can send out. You can automate. You can delegate to your team. Most people would take the approach where they’re just gonna sit down and they’re just gonna they’re gonna hammer it out.

Right? They’ll do an action plan or a gantt chart or some type of project plan, and then it just sits there. So do the same thing, but approach it as a, like a instruction manual, call it a soap, whatever you want. And then you can you can start, systemizing your business.

So that’s how we tackle everything in our business. Like, we start with our main our main sections, each department, no matter what it is, it’s a how to guide. Anything that we do, it’s a how to guide. It’s documented following that that process, and then, of course, you can delegate and, hand it off to your team.

The habit I was talking I don’t know if you guys wanted me to talk about this. So here’s reclaim that I was talking about the the, the AI scheduler. What’s cool about this is that you can put key habits down, and you can say, okay, I wanna work on building my authority status for, like, ninety minutes a day, it’ll look at your schedule, and it’ll it’ll block in time when you’re you’re gonna you’re gonna do that. And then literally, you just you link build out your system.

You work through it one at a time. We do the same with our our team meetings right now. So we have a team meeting. That is a system.

On how to hold a team meeting. If you click on that and you open it up, it’s how to hold a team meeting. Right? And on in this, it gives step by step instructions.

And at the bottom as well, you can you can link it to the examples. There’s a the last team meeting that we had.

So it’s a slight it’s a it’s a different way of looking at it, but it’s it once you think as a system and you start thinking processes, and documenting the processes, then it opens up the door for everything, especially the delegation and the automation. The agency part that we have here I have two people, managing. This this is six hundred thousand dollar business here. It’s run by Jeremy and it’s run by JR. And everything they do has a system. Okay? Here’s the system on how to optimize your GMD profile.

That my job is to create the systems, create the processes.

That’s like working on your business, not in the business. Their job is to work in the business and to apply the systems that I create.

Right? And once you start thinking like that, you free up tie your time to work on the business.

Then you start having fun because, like, you can literally affiliate marketing as a system. You just have to put that together. Joe’s framework is a system. Right, is what it is.

And eventually, you will we can package that. And there you go. You have a system on how to achieve authority status. You can rinse and repeat your book let let’s take publishing your book.

Right? Don’t just take that create an action plan. No. Create a system on how to publish a book.

Right? And then document that step by step, use that structures because if you need to publish another book down the road, you just need to follow that step, but then you can turn it into a course if you want to.

You’re doing the work anyways, but take that extra step to document each each phase. And it of them are gonna be more detailed than other. Like, this is creating a process plus documenting each step. Some of them have videos, some of them don’t, some of them aren’t as detailed. But it’s it’s enough information where you can hand it off to someone and say, here you go.

So the advantage is, of course, each of these can be a system it can be a process within the system. But the point is if you wanna share this, you can share it. If you wanna share if you wanna share the whole system, which is this one, you can share that.

It really depends, but that’s that’s the in a nutshell.

Does anyone have any questions on that?

Does that make sense that the the project versus the system approach in the mindset?

I think mostly, for me, I still see so much overlap like a system when you talk about a project versus a system, I get it.

When I see it on the screen, I look at it and go like, with still feels like a project. So what makes it is this can a system I guess I’m just I’m still looking for a little clarity there.

Sure.

It makes sense to me, but just like Jessica said, I’ll just rewatch this after so the pieces kind of come together, I think, for me.

Yeah. It’s kinda like it’s a meant okay. It’s a mental shift. So let’s let’s take a project.

Okay? So when people break down a project, let’s take a a book. For example, when you publish a book, you create an action plan, and then you work through through each step. It could be, you know, chapter one, chapter two, whatever it is.

You’re not what do people do with that afterwards? They they file it. They don’t do anything with it. But it’s take that action plan, take that that those steps that you’re doing document every step of it and turn it into a how to guide.

It’s a subtle difference, but it’s a it’s a it’s a powerful one. Right? And by going from action plan or gantt chart to how to guide, it forces you to sit there and say, okay, I’m gonna do this, then I’m gonna do this, then I’m gonna do this. Like, take an axe, evergreen funnel, You can approach it like this where it’s step one, step two, include examples, include how to videos, you’re gonna do the work anyways you can just create, like, a an action plan, and here’s the deliverables you need to create. But let’s take the convert the the high converting landing page you could create another how to guide on how to create a landing page, and then you could link to that within this system.

And if you start, you you gotta start from, like, somewhere, but eventually over time, you’re gonna have systems within systems, and your whole business is gonna be how to, like, how to do a budget how to do a team meeting, how to do a landing page. And then once you get to that level, then you can truly start delegating.

And and I’ll show you our WordPress, let me do our knowledge base here.

There we go.

So if you look at our WordPress support for us, so we’re launching WordPress support. Here’s a onboarding system for managed WP.

Okay? When we onboard it, when we onboard, clients, we have a process. Right?

Then it’s broken down. There’s different steps, and then each of these is a system within that. It’s a process on how to do that a step by step guide. So now when we work with our team, I can delegate this, which is the how to guide, or I can delegate the entire system.

It just open up. It opens up the door. It’s it’s kinda like how you’re setting it up. You’re setting it up within your system. You’re it’s kinda like you’re setting up system knowledge base in a sense. But in the end, it’s all it’s all how to, it’s step by step guides.

It’s it’s creating, yeah, it’s creating a system. Right? Does that make sense?

It does. I’m actually applying it now to this other idea, that I’ve been working through around, like, how to build a customer as a different way of looking at marketing.

So it’s interesting. Yep. It yep. I like it.

Like the the avatar let’s take an avatar. Right? So we so a lot of people would be Okay. What I would do is is you have, an amazing course on creating an avatar.

Right? And and you know, you’re you have your outcome, you have all this. That rate there is a process. Right?

You’re you’re teaching people step by step how to do that. But a lot of people, especially in the agency environment, they’ll create a, avatar for a client, they’ll create a brochure for a client, and it’s a one off system. It’s like, I do the brochure. I’m gonna put it aside.

The next client comes up, and you know what? I’m gonna I’m gonna do the creative brief. I’m gonna do the gantt chart. That’s the way you’re taught.

But instead of and take that brochure, create the ultimate guide on how to do a brochure and document each step in the process and then and then look for ways to automate and scale it. So next now when the next time client the next client comes, now you have a productized service that you can offer to them you can scale it. Right? The there’s a subtle difference in how you approach it.

It’s custom work versus not custom work. Yeah. It’s approaching it as a project versus system. It it really is a there’s a it’s it’s there, but it mainly boils down to the process.

Right? You have an outcome. You have a process, whether it’s a project or a system or not, you follow a process. It may change whether it’s like agile or or or Kanban But then you also the big differences is the, actual procedures, right, the soaps, whatever you wanna call them.

Just make sure those are step by step guides. And everything you do in your agency, if you take that approach in time, you’re gonna have how to knowledge base. On how to do this, how to do this, how to do this. And then once that’s done, I’m showing you guys some, like, behind the scenes stuff here.

Once that’s done, then you can start automating entire agencies. Right? So if we look at these, these are all clients that we work on here. These are these are projects that are incoming right now.

But if you look at them, these are just systems. These are repeatable processes. Right? And they’re all linked to a knowledge base, on how tos.

So that that’s kinda how it works together. But it’s starting thinking as a system versus a project right away. That’s that’s the the mindset to have with it. It took me a while to figure this out, especially with with my businesses, but once you Once you start building that out or you think that way, you applied everything from retainer clients to WordPress support to different templates, and then you just start linking and sharing and delegating those.

Zoom, anyone have any questions on that or Can I ask Shane?

Like, if we’re looking at, you know, our spreadsheet for our one thing with all of the projects that we’re this one. Yeah. Exactly. When it comes to, like deciding on the order in which we tackle each one.

Almost like a game try. I know that’s project, not in that system thinking. It’s what you’ve been saying. But, like, I’m behind I’m with you on the creating the how to guide as you go.

So, like, I was doing the competitor’s content audit today. So I can see, like, taking the steps that I took and putting that into, how to guide but when it comes to the smartest, like, building off of our work and creating Just creating a system in terms of which projects we tackle first. Do you have any insight there?

That’s your process. Like, for me, I’m gonna set this. I’m gonna do this for you and, like, I’m gonna pick one thing and set this up. So, like, what I would do is I would start okay.

So let’s let’s approach this as a system. Okay? My ultimate goal is to achieve celebrity status in my one thing. Okay.

Now the process I’m gonna do is I’m gonna start with my USB value prop. I’m gonna create an avatar that actually includes both I’m gonna focus on my USB because it’s a level three market assist sophistication. So I wanna focus on how to Once that’s done, then I’m gonna build my authority site, then I’m gonna do my origin story because then it’s relatable. And I have the VOC because of the avatar, then I’m gonna focus on, my blog and then I’m gonna do the sub stack newsletter, then I’m gonna focus on the, the book, the book is gonna promote my USB because it’s the how to, my special way of doing it, then I’m gonna build off that and do the podcast.

So they build off each other, But I’m thinking as a system to get that done. And each of them that I just said to you as I build them and create them is gonna be a how to guide. That I can repeat down the road, right, building my avatar. We we do that.

We have a a course on building your avatar where it includes your value prop, it includes frequently asked questions, then you you create, guarantees to address those questions. It’s a system on how to do that. It’s just a how to guide how to do it. Right?

By approaching that at the end of this, you’re gonna have a system not only on how to achieve celebrity status. So if you wanna pick something else or launch a venture or some or even sell your own course on this, you’re gonna have a how to guide, how to implement it. And then each one of those that I just showed you, that’s a potential of five courses. Not only that, I could turn any of those into a productized service.

Right? It’s a subtle difference. And people, like, take the brochure analogy. Like, we’ve all done I don’t know if you guys have or not.

How men how much client work have you done where at the end of it, like, you’re even taught project closure.

Like, what is that? Project closure, all the all the deliverables were met, where the requirements met. You take that, you put it into a folder. You’re done.

That’s a wasted opportunity. Right? So you’re still achieving the same outcome, but by taking the systemized approach, you can do more with it. Right?

You can turn it into a course. You can productize your service. You can you can automate it. You can delegate it.

It just opens up the door to so many more things. And it’s so important for us because as you get into this space and you get your one thing, you have to be working on the business. You can’t be working in the business. Right?

And like, promoting your sub stack and doing, like, all of these little things, like, you’re creating the content, but you shouldn’t be promoting it. That’s working in the business. Someone else can do that for you. And it’s a and it’s freeing up your time to work on that stuff, the high level strategic stuff.

Right? That’s the difference. That’s one of the main bet benefits of of taking this approach.

And the system can take any form. This right here is a system.

Right? I can people can call this a marketing plan. I don’t. I call it a marketing system.

Right? There’s a goal. There’s a process. Right? And this is your direct response marketing. This is each phase.

I’m gonna start with the avatar. I’m gonna do the u s p, then I’m gonna pick Google my business, then I’m gonna do the sales page, then I’m gonna do re marketing, then I’m gonna do the sales pipeline. Each of those is a is a process to achieve a specific goal, which is this, right, and then I’m gonna turn each of these on how to create an avatar, how to how to develop your USB, how to optimize your GMB profile, Right? And then, again, that opens up the opportunity.

It just it’s a different way to look at it. This instead of looking at it as a project plan, I look at this as a system, This is a system that will help you achieve a celebrity status in your one thing, and this is the process Joe’s laying it for you.

Right? You’re taking this process and you’re just deciding when you’re gonna do it, but make no mistake. That’s a process. And there’s an order there on how you’re gonna do stuff.

You’re not gonna publish a book unless you define your USB. It’s why would you not why would you do that? You’re gonna be promoting USB. You can’t do one without the other.

Right? So it’s figuring out that process, and this is the formula I use for everything. Right? And it and you’ll find that, like, the trick on this as well as, like, if I it’s making sure that each of these is like a noun, it’s they’re an actual deliverable.

Like a sub stacked newsletter is a is a deliverable. You know exactly what you need to do.

Right?

USPS is deliverable. You know exactly what you need to do. A podcast is a deliverable. So as long as you focus on the nouns, deliverables to help you achieve the outcome, then you can you can start taking that and systemize it. Right? A TV, radio show, a core productized service.

That there’s a system for that. If you if you’re gonna create a core productized service, why not why not create turn that that in itself as a system. Right?

Your workshop, how to hold a, how to hold a works workshop. People have sell courses on that. Right? How to do an evergreen funnel? It just it’s a different mindset, but it’s an important one. Does that answer your question? Kind of.

I get what you’re saying in terms of every because I I feel like you answered my question in, like, five seconds of that answer. Which was the order that you gave those. But I understand what you mean in terms of each SOP is in and of itself an opportunity to either delegate, product ties, create a course, create a program, or create content around the thing that you’re doing.

Those are opportunities. I think Johnson just said, like, the one of the main differences is the documenting. Yeah. It’s like people people mostly that that’s actually great. A great point. Like, people everyone approaches it as here’s what I need to do, and then they’ll do it, or then they’ll take project notes They’ll they’ll have stuff in, like, folders and stuff, but they don’t take that and they don’t turn it into something.

Right? And by taking that extra step, you’re doing the work anyway.

Does anything you approach think, okay, I’m gonna turn this into a how to guide. I’m gonna turn this into a step by step process.

Everything you do. Like, anything in the in my team that they do, like, when they ask me, it’s like when I want them to do something, they ask they okay, what’s the outcome? There’s specific questions that they they ask from me, and then I make sure they document it. The littlest things that you would think of. Like, if you look at this one, with the, the the client, the work, like updating a CRM, that has been turned into a system.

Right? If we go back to the, right here, like a lead value in updating CRM. That’s that’s a how to guide. That’s a system now.

Because I can delegate to this person that I don’t even need to I don’t know I don’t need to be involved in any of it. Facebook campaign. Okay? There’s a system for that.

There’s a how to launch a successful Facebook campaign. Right? That’s part of a a broader, a broader, that’s part of this system. But it’s still or a process within that, say this was like step four, right, which is Facebook.

Right? It’s part of this is your your system here. This is your process, which should be step four, and you’re just documenting how to do a Facebook campaign. Right? And then you’re taking that and turning it into a product high service or a course as well.

Oh, what I’m wondering is, slightly slightly off topic maybe, but what what, you obviously manage your systems really well. You’ve got a huge data there you go, database of them I was just wondering if you could speak to, your recommendations for organizing these, soaps and systems and processes as you develop them because I can I can just kind of see into the future and imagine creating quite an unwieldy kind of database? So I’m just wondering if you have a a a a way of organizing that or or just any thoughts, I guess.

Yes. So as a freelancer entrepreneur, this I’ve they call it, like, your org chart, whatever you whatever you wanna call it. Okay? You’re gonna have You’re gonna have your finance and admin, your operations, and your sales and marketing.

Okay? Your your finance and admin in your sales and marketing, those are the core functions of everything you do, okay, that they make the products. Okay? Operations delivers the products.

That’s the simplest way to look at it. Right? So if you have a course, you’re gonna your sales and marketing department is gonna create it. Operations is gonna deliver it. And that’s that’s the simplest way that I found to to make the distinction is just to to have those departments.

It’s the it’s how you, this controls the money in and out. This is how you market and and, the services, this is how you deliver the services. Right? That’s the way I look at it. It simplifies things.

And then if you look at these, like, each of these is a is a guide how to hold a meeting is not finance as operations.

Right? That that’s it belongs in that department. Where the, the sales and marketing, the evergreen funnel, well, that’s gonna be part of the the sales and marketing, right, part of the system. So this right here, the authority building, this would be part of this system as part of the, this one right here. This is part of of sales and marketing. Right?

So does that does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. That no. No. That makes, total sense.

Do you do you recommend nimbus web? I’ve never even out of it.

Yeah. This is we live off this. Like, this is, like yeah. Well, it’s you can do this in Google Drive as well, but it it doesn’t really matter where you do it.

But just you have your main folders, which are your your, your departments, how you structure it. It doesn’t really matter, but and then within that, you just have your soaps. People call them soaps. I call them systems.

Right? And then their systems upon systems. This may be a whole this may be a system within that system because then you can delegate systems. You can delegate to start from somewhere, like your onboarding process. Right? So you have your onboarding process.

Let’s approach that as a system. Right? A client comes in, this happens, this happens, this happens, this happens.

Right? Now you know what you have a clear process, So you’re gonna take the first step of the process and you’re gonna create a how to guide. You’re gonna take the second process. You’re gonna create a how onboarding a a client, a how to guide.

And now under operations, you have how to onboard a new client, how to send an invoice, how to send a proposal, Right? You have now you’re on your way to systemizing. And don’t, like, just start somewhere. Right?

Just get in the habit of anything you approach using this framework.

And then eventually six months from now, you’re like, oh, this is awesome. And then you you assign people to manage that. Right? Like, I don’t once it gets to a point, I don’t I don’t I’m not involved in it.

Right? GMB is his domain. I’ve I’m nothing to do with it now because now it’s his responsibility to do that. Update it and report to me, and now I’m working on the business versus in the business.

Right? And it’s like this right here, especially, like, the agency, right here. Like, we have tons of projects going on at any one time, and it’s all because of systems.

Right? That’s we wouldn’t be able to do it if it wasn’t for a system.

That’s cool. No. That’s really cool. It reminds me of something I think. I think Tim Farris said it, like, years and years ago. But that that anything that you do more than once, as part of your, like, your day to day life is is worth advertising.

Bingo. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. I was trying to figure how can I get this a my approach is everything I do no matter what it is, is a system because you have to, like, don’t make that mistake?

Like, people take on project. How many times have we all taken on a project where you’re taught that. You there’s the closure. There’s the like, you’re taught different phases.

At the end, you have to close it. You talk what went well. What didn’t that’s a missed opportunity.

Right? Because you may have to repeat that down the road. No one thinks, oh, I’m gonna take that old. I’m gonna take that out of action plan.

I’m gonna go through the no. No one thinks like that. So you you can by taking this approach, you still achieve the same outcome. It just now you’re documenting I think Johnson said, like, you’re you’re documenting the steps to how to Right?

You’re taking a step further, and then you’re organizing it like I just showed you. Right? And then eventually you have systems upon system right? And then you start building out the apartments.

But one sorry. One one thought that I know Jessica’s waiting. I don’t I don’t wanna hog the time, but, I just have one last question.

Something I was thinking about as you were talking about this was one was, like, I’m glad I didn’t create, a process or a system rather. When I was first learning some of the things that I now do because, I I’ve added and changed and it’s it’s kind of mutated into, something unique to the to to my own process.

But then I, on the other side of that, Do you think that there’s any, risk or danger?

From having a system that is, fixed and is the solution just simply to revisit your systems on a regular basis to make sure that they’re updated and that they’re they’re, they’re they’re changing, they’re shifting, they’re growing with the as the world changes it grows, Obviously, not all of them, but some assume will need to change.

Yeah. The this is thinking this is actually what this is, like, you’re you look at this, this is like thinking like a scientist, you’re forming an hypothesis. If I do this and this, I’m gonna have the. Right?

That’s the whole point of a system is that it’s not unrepeatable, but you can you can adjust as you go. Right? And if you maybe examine it six months and if you’re not getting that same outcome, you need to adjust the process. And that’s a that’s adjusting the how to guide or what it is.

Right? But treat that’s how I treat everything as a system. It’s a it’s a it’s a process and, yeah, there’s tweaking on it. Nothing stays station as some stuff does.

Like, there’s your there’s processes that you do day in and day out that will never change like payroll. We have payroll. So payroll is I use a bot for that literally. Right?

And it’s, like, it takes care of everything a to z, but in order to to get to that point, I had to create a clear step by step process that I could automate. In in that case, I decided to automate versus delegate it. Right? Where a lot of people will have a bookkeeping checklist.

Well, a bookkeeping checklist isn’t a it’s it’s it’s just a it’s a high it’s a what to do. It’s not how to do it. Go that extra step, and then it opens up opportunities, like, even with AI.

Right? Like, there’s a big difference between approaching a project like this and like this and like this versus a system, right, they would close this board afterwards.

And and each of these is a missed opportunity. Right?

Yeah. That makes total sense.

And that’s and it’s a subtle approach, but it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a big one. Like, thinking like this probably was one of the biggest, one of the best things that happened in front of my mindset as well. It freed up my time because I I’m like everyone else. I have kids.

I have multiple things going on. It’s it can be stressful. Right? You’re like, how do I find the time to do this?

But when you once you approach systems, then you can you can truly start automating, and you can truly start delegating. That’s the biggest thing. And it’s, like, it’s approved.

Sorry. Yeah. Go. Go. No. Go ahead. No. I was just gonna say it’s cool that I think because part of, it it’s funny because one of the things I I wrote in my my twenty five things, like, one of the categories was was soaps.

I I recognized that I, like, I really I think because I have ADHD, I really struggle to, to, to, to perform the same task over and over again without, like, clear, clear definitions of what I need to do. And, in writing down some of the soaps, which I’ve I’ve started to do already, I’m discovering gaps in my knowledge. I’m noticing areas that could be better. I’m, maybe, formalizing a process, that’s, the the works better, just by thinking about it.

So, yeah, I can see. Anyway, did I just there’s it seems to be a lot of value to it.

Yeah. There’s not and, like, literally these these this agency here, like, this is Jeremy and Jared. They had no marketing experience when they start. I would put Jeremy against any marketer out there.

He’s been with me for a couple of years right now. His knowledge was on proven systems, right, Facebook campaign. He’s brilliant on that stuff. He because he learned from a proven system.

Right? JR had no marketing experience. Right? And it’s teaching him, I wouldn’t have been able to get them to that level.

If I didn’t have these processes, the how to’s.

Right? So it’s like call it, like, education two point o or whatever it is, but you’re just you’re building your system and your business off of proven systems. Some of it is mundane. Some of it is step by step by step.

But that’s an opportunity to automate it. Right? And you can’t automate unless you have a process. It’s impossible.

Right? You you literally can’t. And everything is a process. You do this. You do this.

You do this. You do this. You do this. You do this.

You just need to figure out that process and then and then document it, and then you have tons of opportunity. Is there an example that people want me to to to approach as a system? Like, it’s related to your one thing, how I would do it?

Yeah.

I think so.

I think I like the way you your marketing plan. That was really interesting.

It’s a system. Yeah.

Yeah. That one page marketing plan, it seems like a pretty repeatable Could you go over that as a system?

Yeah. This is, like, this is and a system can take many forms. Right? Like a system can be a plan.

It can be, like, even here’s Joe’s, this is a system. You can look this as a as an authority plan. I look it as a system. I’m gonna build in that is repeatable, and then I’m looking at each of these as a system that I can repeat, and I’m gonna document every step of the way, the same as a marketing plan.

This is a repeatable system that we do repeat for plenty of clients. So there’s one client. I gotta, like, before we put these up, I think I have to have to show the, we’ll have to go in here and do the, we’ll have to what do you call it to blur it out? But anyways, here’s each of these has a system.

Right? So you go in here. Here’s the marketing plan.

It’s the same thing. Exact same thing. It’s a repeatable process, to achieve a specific outcome, but because we’ve documented everything, in detail, like, now we’re on to the during phase of lead generation. Here’s a pipeline.

Here’s a sales process. And guess what these are, how to guys and how to create a a sales pipeline. How to guide on how to create a sales process. And eventually, we’ll get into the live webinar.

Like, that’s and then eventually you get to the point where you’re it just copy and paste, right, and then you just delegate it. And then everything that you’re doing under this, like, here’s a blog newsletter. This is just a a system. It’s a how to do a monthly, plan for your newsletter.

That’s how they were trained on it. Right?

And then you can apply this over and over again, and to to any thing. And the main difference is you’re just, like, we could approach this and say, we’re gonna do this marketing plan and how many people do that? They’ll set it up in Asana. They may or may not save it.

No. I’m not gonna set up an Asana. I’m just gonna link literally to a system, and I’m gonna use this as my project. And whatever you wanna call it, And I’m gonna work through this, and then I have a repeatable process I can delegate.

It’s a subtle difference, but it’s a it’s a it’s an important one, though.

This reminds me, one, idea that might be helpful for people, because I I’ve just started doing it is, I got it from this guy who runs a a a VA agency, and he’s got something like five VA’s, and he has every single person on this company has at least one VA, and they they they have all of these processes around, like, how to use your VA and what are you using for? Do you need more VA’s?

He was saying that one of the best, ways that he’s found to, to use VA’s was to, take something that you do, that you repeatedly do. And, record a loom of you doing it. You don’t need to, you don’t need to, speak to what you’re doing as you do it, you just do it and record it on Loom, and he was saying that the the the success rate of giving that video to a to a VA and saying, like, okay. Do do this. Like, watch this and then do this. People underestimate, or rather overestimate how, how unique their skills are and how complex their tasks are. And so I just I was just thinking, like, you know, anything that you do repeatedly, you could probably just loom it.

If you’re not gonna use a VA, you could just go back over the Loom and be like, what am I doing at each stage and just write that down. So you don’t have to even interrupt your process necessarily.

Yeah. Or you can on, like, the biggest thing with that, like, this is a perfect example. Hey, let’s take I hire a VA. Hey, I want you to go in and optimize this client.

Optimize this client’s DMV account. This this could be a product set to tie service we launch. Here’s a step by step guide.

Video on exactly what to do, all of the resources. Here’s a checklist to follow.

It’s a repeatable process. Right?

It’s not that’s that’s the that’s exactly. But you don’t a lot of people would say, you know, they would hire get hired to do this for their GMB page, but they’re not gonna document it like this. It’s a missed opportunity because now I can automate this. I can delegate it. Even mundane tasks, you can automate. It could be like step one, step two, step three, uploading receipts.

You could there’s I AI that will do that rate but you have to automate, you have to figure out the process, though, or it’s it’s impossible evergreen funnel.

Right? This is a course. I could easily turn this into a course. These are the email templates I need to send. This is the sequence.

I’m gonna use this to create cash flow. So the tripwire is gonna pay for the Facebook ads. Right? I’m gonna I’m gonna have those as cost.

And now it’s a repeatable process that I can give to Jeremy and say, hey, launch this trip by our own Facebook. Here you go. Don’t know how to launch a Facebook campaign? No problem. Link to a how to launch Facebook campaign.

Right? So they all they all start connecting.

They could be part of a bigger picture, of course, which is your your your your plan, but eventually you’ll start seeing little opportunities here and there. Right? It’ll these combined can be part of a different system. You can start mixing and matching. It’s like it it’s almost like a puzzle. Right?

System support other system.

Yeah. That’s Exactly. Does that make sense? I was trying to get across with this. It’s like I know it’s hard to explain, but, like and I wanna do something like, where is it here?

Like, here’s here’s an example on the marketing plan. Right? Like, we have here’s a here’s a system on GMB optimization.

And then with under that step four is to optimize your photos. And then here’s another system.

Part of me.

Can you zoom in on the slide? It’s hard to see.

Yeah. My apologies.

Thanks.

There. Is that better?

Oh, let me just see the slideshow, actually. It’s better.

So here’s the the marketing plan, here’s the GMB, here’s a system I had to optimize your GMB, okay, the one I showed you, and step four is add photos, But here’s another system on how to choose the best photos for your GMB.

So these are these are both systems here that are here Right? So they’re they’re under the the sales and marketing, but one they all support each other. They can be individual. They can support a system.

It’s like a puzzle. You put them together and you can start delegating and having fun. Right? And over time, the beauty of that is that you’ll have you’ll see opportunities for stuff.

Right?

You know, if you wanna maybe you’re you’re building at a plan, you’re like, oh, we have a system for that. Hey, we’re launching a pod podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

We have a system for that. Here’s here’s the how to guide. Perfect. You can link to it, then you can start creating courses like all Joe’s courses are systems.

Guest blogging, right?

So you put in guest blogging as one of your your plans, which she says here. Right? I’m gonna I’m gonna do a podcast or what it is. There’s a system. Her course is a system. Just create a how to manual or just link to that course and say, here you go, and you can delegate it.

Yeah.

It’s it’s cool. It’s kinda like, building a box of Legos.

Bingo. Yeah. I was trying to and I was trying to get that across here, like, to this to the to the system part. Like, it is literally it’s legos.

It’s connecting stuff. Right? It’s just, it’s, it’s not loading, but that yeah. It’s just like it’s that’s all it is.

Right? It’s different parts, systems, processes, systems, processes are all connected. Right? You can delegate entire process.

You can delegate entire systems. Or you can delegate a a specific procedure, but everything has a process that you follow, right, anything. It’s a step by step. You do this.

You do this. You do this. There’s nothing that doesn’t work like that.

Right? It may change where you’re you’re doing this, but then you realize, okay, I’m gonna do this. Like, that’s you can go back and forth, but there’s still a process you follow.

Like, is there what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna I’m gonna do this myself as well. Like, I’m gonna I’m gonna pick one thing and work through this and actually set, set up, like, how I would set it up on this and share it with everyone as I do it, that may help too.

But if you wanna call it a soap, whatever you wanna call it, I call them I call them processes because that’s it’s just easier for me to understand it. Like you have your you have your outcome, your process, and how to do it, and then the individual procedures inside of that, which is just your detailed step by step instructions.

And if you approach it like this, then you’re you’re golden. Right? Over time, you’re gonna have a whole system on how to run your business agency.

Here’s the tools.

Could I see TeamHub and I see NIMBIS web? It would be interesting to know what we’ve embedded in because I think half the battle is you start the work, but then what’s the logical way to organize it. I think in one of the areas that Johnson was. Like, and sometimes it’s just a matter of saying, hey, go with this tool because you don’t have to learn a tool, we’re gonna work together on the same model building principles under the same tool.

What do you mean by tool though?

Like, what like, in So, like, a a tool or software would be TeamHub or NIMBIS web? Like, which tool to store your knowledge base or I don’t know I don’t know what tools you’re using that or software you’re using that Oh, this this is NIMBIS, yeah, this is like fuse base.

It’s just, it’s like an Evernote. As well. So it’s the same thing. It just allows you to create folders. And I like doing it because you can share stuff out. You can create portals as well.

And what’s team hub?

Team hub. Where’s, team hub?

You can see it.

I think that’s just the the the prefix on on Nimbus.

Your URL. I looked at both of them all.

Oh, no. These these are the different. So this is word these are just different. These are these are all different, businesses.

Like, this is WP total care. These are retainer clients. These are just different this is the example one. Those are just different like, companies, I guess, if you wanna call them.

Sorry.

I didn’t really know I’m asking because I googled TeamHub, and then I googled NIMBIS web, and they’re two different comp software.

So maybe It’s just the one that you’re using. Right? The NIMBIS Club?

Yeah. And I just use it for but you can use anything. You can use Google Drive.

Right? It doesn’t you can use, we we have a SOP for this one that I showed you here on the on this. This is just a Google drive document. Right?

We haven’t imported it into, this one right here. This is a productized services that we created. So here’s the we had this guide here on how to launch an authority site. Which is like a step by step guide.

So a client hired us to to, build a website for them. We turned that into a process, right, starting with your your avatar, your sitemap, your wireframe is a proven process. From that before you launch, you have to do an SEO audit.

Right? So from that system, this pros this step in the process we turned into a productized service.

Right? And if you think like that, you’re gonna see you’re gonna see opportunity everywhere. So this system that you’re looking on the authority site, we applied that system to these here.

Right? These are all authority sites. These are websites that we’re launching, and it’s because of this original system that we can do that. Right?

And there’s different spin offs you’re gonna find. Right? Like each of these is different avatar. You could do a productized service on an avatar.

Right? You can do you’ll you’ll see opportunity everywhere. You could turn it into a course if you wanted to.

Shane, can I ask a question to connect back to the previous session that we had? Sure. Okay. I’m gonna put it in context that like I Maybe I just need it in the old thing that I used to know well. So I was a teacher.

So to me, the outcome for one of my students would be I can write an argumentative essay and show seventh grade proficiency. Whatever.

So that’s my outcome.

Right? And then the next part then would be the process. So like the one part of the part it would be like research, the argument, first draft, whatever.

And then each of the procedures under every day I literally had to how to know the difference between a primary and a secondary source as well.

And you know, so a gazillion, right? Lots of things. So I think am I am I equating these things?

The way Hundred percent. It’s a Okay. That process though, don’t use research though because that’s a phase. Okay. So let’s let’s take the outcome, which it like, tell me the outcome in one sentence.

I show seventh grade proficiency of an art of an argumentative essay, writing an argumentative essay.

Okay. Now tell me the exact process using nouns. So only use nouns.

Oh, okay. Sure. So my argument.

K. There you go. What’s the next one? So that’s step one.

First draft.

K. Step two.

I wanna go towards editing and revision. So I guess I would say Yeah. More like a second draft or something like that. It’s the drafts, I guess, the phases of drafts.

Yeah. So now you have we I know we can go more, but exactly what to do. So a lot of people just have a checklist or an action plan with those steps that you just showed me, and then it’s it’s the what, and then they’ll figure out how to do it. But they won’t document themselves doing it.

Okay. So so I’m see, I am getting this right. So I have been doing this for years.

I think where I’m still I think where I wanna push you then is is so if you were thinking in the context of my student then if I had to align on one of my five non negotiables with what we’re talking about here Sure.

What could that look like?

Well, to it depends on if, like, what’s your outcome? You’re using as the as the student example?

Yeah. Is that okay?

Sure. It could be, draft. It could be work on, I need to do a draft. And here’s a how to guide on how to write the perfect draft, or that could be part of you it could be one advanced guide. And so what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna put aside an hour a day or I’m gonna set a goal to write one thousand words a day.

And with the goal of having my draft done by the end of the week.

That’s So I think so I think I get that where I’m struggling is it seemed like when Joe was talking about hers, these were kind of habits of forever and ever.

Yeah. She’s talking about Keystone habits. Like, it it it it it dep it depends. Like, she’s talking about habits that are part of the system.

Okay? So it’s like, her there’s a lot of like, she has copy hackers as one big system. Copy school professional is one big system, and all of those would support her system. Right?

And so the habit she has probably support, like, a bigger a bigger goal that she has. Right? That’s that’s the way I would align it.

For health. I have, like, I have keystone habits for my health. Like, one of them is exercise. There’s certain things I wanna do every day. Because they’ll also have the most impact on my health. Right?

That’s what I do is I have my non negotiables, but they’re always aligned to, like, a bigger system, a bigger goal or outcome that you wanna achieve. So I would align my my non negotiables with your one thing.

Right? Say, wanna publish a book. Well, one of your daily non negotiables should be to write one thousand words a day. Or something like that.

Right? Because it’s supporting, a larger outcome. And then, and then you’re you’re focused. Right?

I was also one wondering this, Jessica, because, all of my goals, I think, or nearly all of my, my goals non negotiables are, not forever. They won’t run-in perpetuity. And I was kinda wondering, oh, am I am I doing it wrong? So should I should I have stuff that keeps going? But I don’t know. I kind of I don’t know. I feel like there are, obviously, Joe’s in different positions of me.

And I think the, There’s no right or wrong way.

That I have. Yeah. The stuff I have to build first that there are there are obstacles that I need to hurdle before I’m probably gonna be in a space where, my tasks are are repetitive, indefinite, and, and useful. And functional.

Yeah. I totally agree with you, Johnson. I am the same way. That’s where I think I was struggling with, you know, the way I drew it. You know, Joanna was so concrete on, like, these are the things that she’ll keep repeating. I think we’re still in that trial stage.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I I think one of the questions I had was at what point do you don’t build the SOP but buy the SOP? You know what I mean? Like, If you’re continually trying to learn all the steps it takes to build authority versus buying the shortcuted version of helping you just do that, that’s where I’m kind of, you know, at that point where in the authority building, all the great things, you know, that I feel like would be fantastic to do. It’s the learning.

How to do it that’s and where and what tools and And, and I, in some cases, feel like there’s a shortcutting process to all that, you know, taking courses or acquiring that knowledge, like, through coffee school is one way. But, you know, some of these authority building things don’t live within coffee school per se.

What’s an example of one, like, that you’re thinking?

Yeah. Like, building a book, you know, you know, so my thought is, well, maybe I create my own around, like, Each chapter becomes an ebook that you release, and then you complete each book.

Each chapter before you complete the book, but then You know, what does that mean if you let pieces of your book go early in terms of publishing, but then it’s it’s not having the full big picture of the do’s and don’ts of of publishing a book and or the way in which you could go through two page. Or you could go through self publishing, but then a self publishing work is a whole s o s o p on itself.

It’s getting clear on the outcome. Once you know, I would go a step further and say I wanna I wanna self publish a book on x y z on Amazon. Now the outcome is clear. Right?

Like, now I can create a process, and I can figure it out as I go. And the beauty of is it, like, this right here that you’re looking at This is your this is what you’re working from. You’re figuring that as you go and you’re figuring out the steps. You may be taking a course just like, oh, okay.

This is step one I’m gonna do. This is step two I’m gonna do. You do that instinctively.

Everything that you do in life is a process.

You you you you you brainstorm, you you in your mind, you think y’all gotta do all this stuff and then you structure it and you start working through it. The key is to organize it and being clear on exactly what you want. Right?

So I did it. So how to self publish a book, it would be like, well, could you just take the course to do that rather than having to, like, figure out the steps if you get what I mean?

Document the course. Like, Joe, Joe has an amazing course on how to, guess blog. Right? That’s if anyone has that on their action plan, they just link to that.

It’s beautiful. And then that that is gonna, like, you could work through that so quickly and get such amazing results because that’s a system she’s she’s giving you, right, on how to do it.

Turned it into a soap, whatever it is, but it’s a repeatable process.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

And that’s the way to look at everything everything here is a course, podcast, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, it’s an opportunity.

How how to optimize your your your LinkedIn profile.

Right? Create a soap on that. Create a step by step process, and now you can offer that as a productized service to your clients.

Right?

And you can delegate it to people who have no experience in marketing or LinkedIn, which I’ve literally done. They these guys have know it when they start, but it’s because the it’s a it’s proven frameworks that they can build upon. Right? And they and they learn by by following a a process of system.

All of these are deliverables, signature offer, deliverable.

How to how to build a signature offer, subtract newsletter.

There’s probably one available that you can follow. And just as you’re as you’re launching your sub stack folder, create a how to guide, and just document yourself doing it.

It won’t be perfect right away. But at the end of it, I promise you, you’ll have a really cool process.

Right?

And then sell a course.

That’s all people do. Like, that’s that’s all that it is. Like, there’s there there’s not. It’s just getting into that mindset, right? Document everything. You can’t you and where to focus on focus on your onboarding process? Focus on your Let’s talk about your acquisition funnel, your sales and marketing funnel.

Right? There’s before, during and after. That’s what this is. This is sales and marketing funnel. There’s before, during and after.

And in your funnel, each of those is deliverable. A a lead magnet is a a deliverable.

Right? That’s a noun. So now you have a guide on how to how to create and launch a lead magnet.

Okay. There’s a course. And a client comes in, there’s a product type service. Right?

It’s a different it’s a subtle it’s I was trying to convey it, like, how can I get this across the right way? But it’s I hope it’s making sense, like, the the approach on it.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Certainly does kinda like I mentioned, in the last call and in the chat, just like, how it’s a bridge, you know, as, you know, people and business owners, we try and only do stuff that’s worth doing. And if it’s worth doing, it’s probably worth repeating and scaling. And to kinda make it as easy as possible and kinda like you said, ideally, delegated out.

So they can literally just look and say, Hey, if I need to do this, I do this. If for for some reason whatsoever, I’m lost, I go back here. Oh, here’s what’s to come. Where did I leave off?

Right? So it’s just super simple.

Bingo. And it’s like and any and it it don’t just think delegation.

Like, as a business owner and a freelancer, you’re by taking this approach and systemizing everything, you can not only delegate. You can automate.

That’s that’s, like, people think I delegate everything. No. You can automate a lot of stuff. Even mundane stuff like like like uploading receipts.

Okay? Like, when a receipt comes in, before I used to download the receipt, put it in zero, upload it to Hub Dog. So I I looked how can I how can I automate this? Okay.

Step one as the receipt comes in. Step two is I need to set the hubdoc. Step three is I need to upload it to zero. Okay.

Step one, I can I can use a filter in Gmail? Perfect. That’s gonna send it to hubdoc. Because Hubdot creates an email.

But how am I gonna get it to zero? Oh, there’s a plugin. So if I install the plugin, so now I create a folder, receipts come in, and it takes care of the process. Now that’s off my plate.

And before that, you’re then people argue well, hey, that only takes five minutes to do. Right? I’m gonna I have to blur this afterwards because I’m showing you.

But, like, the reality, it is, like, all this stuff that comes in, look at all these receipts.

One thousand three hundred and eighty two receipts.

It that that’s a lot of work.

Right? So by automating the process, it saves you time and it builds up. It’s five minutes here, five minutes here, five minutes here. But if I had it done and I did that for years, just to receive. Who cares? I’ll just upload it. Take five minutes out of I would put on on my daily checklist to do.

I never thought, wait a second, automate it. Three is a system. Here’s a process step by step. Done.

Right? Daily to do check checklists, you can I don’t work from them because you can you can automate or delegate ninety nine percent of the stuff? Right? I just work from from the calendar and I say, here, this is what I work on today. And then I build out systems, and there’s this links to my system that I’m building out. As I work through it, I document it. It could be video or steps or whatever it is, and then at the end of it, it’s repeatable.

Right. That makes sense. You know, not just the delegation, but the automation huge because you’re essentially just getting back more of your time so you can kinda compound that to whatever you wanna do.

And don’t discount those small things because as a business, especially when you get busier, those things add up. And it’s, like, you can treat this as, like, I’m turning this into, like, the authority status. Like, this is just a con bond. But if you notice here, this is like launch sub stack evergreen funnel. Right? Even each of these is a how to launch an evergreen funnel. And in here Right.

Those little things do add up. Like you said, even just receipts, be like a death by a thousand paper cuts kind of thing, you know.

Exactly. It’s you’d be surprised on the stuff. Right? You wanna automate as much as you can.

Because that stuff is gonna get you in the end. That’s why people get stressed. Right? And then you’re focused on working in the business.

That’s the biggest trap that business owners I don’t work in the business. I work on the business. My job is to is to coach and train my team. That is my job, period.

And and how I do that is, like, I create systems.

Right? And I and I allow them to make mistakes, and I mentor and coach them. That’s it. They run the business. I’m not involved in anything.

Right? And that frees up my time to spend with my family to do stuff I enjoy.

But I wouldn’t be able to do that if I didn’t have a system. It took a while to get to that point. Like, I’m not gonna say it’s easy, but when you make that mental shift and everything you turn into as a how to guide, you’ll start to see opportunities.

Right?

Does anyone at is that is it making sense overall to everybody?

Certainly. Yeah. No. Really well put too. For some reason, I’m just trying to get across in the robotic system with bridge now.

Yeah. It’s like this thing it’s think project because it’s the same it’s the same concept. It’s there’s no difference. It’s the same outcome.

How many of you you’re told, build a gantt chart, build a gantt chart, do an action plan.

Do a con bond board, do a work breakdown structure.

There there’s so much missed opportunity with this stuff.

It’s the same thing. It just create a system. They all achieve the same outcome.

Right? This is just the what? This is but you gotta dig in deep the how because I can’t delegate this. I can’t delegate a gantt chart.

I can delegate system.

Right? Because now there’s individual processes on how to clean the sink, how to clean the floor, how to do the bathtub. Because when I was cleaning it, I said step one, fill it fill it with a and people are like, well, you know what, why would you do a soap? This is a great analogy.

Why would you do a soap on filling a sink? Okay. If I said to you fill a sink and I said to another person fill the sink, you’re both thinking different things. I want the sink filled halfway with warm water, that I want a cup of cleaning solution.

Right? Just if I said you build a house and I want a house with two windows, I want, like, you’re both thinking different ways. So as mundane as you think it is, by thinking like that, you you get consistent results. Right? That and that that’s another is predictability. Right? It’s consistency, which is huge.

That is huge. Like, that makes me think of, like, when you talked about the sink, my wife, she does, like, training stores and fast food industry. So she goes into different stores and teaches them literally systems like this kind of like you said, literally, I think there’s a sync SOP for them. There’s an oven SOP.

There’s all all the systems, you know, Bingo.

Those are systems. People call them different things, soaps, whatever it is, but there’s they’re they’re step by step. Instructions on how to do something detailed so that you have consistent results. And once you you get it to that level, then you can delegate or automate because It’s all about achieving a specific outcome, right? That’s, but there’s a process to achieve that. You gotta figure that out and document it. That’s your job as a business owner.

That is your job to grow and scale is to is to create systems and systemize your business. It’s not to do the word. You can’t do both anyone who tells you you can do both is wrong. It’s impossible.

Your job is not to do the work. Your job is to work on the business, and you work on the business by creating systems, and then you can delegate it. You can hire people. Right?

Or even better, you hire people to to create the systems for you. You teach them this method, right, and then you hire a bookkeeper and then you make sure, like, I got burnt with that. Like, years ago, we had a bookkeeper and he left, and I was screwed. He didn’t document anything. And I was like, what what am I gonna do? And I learned from that quickly.

Right? So now you hire someone. They do the systems in the knowledge base. So if he leaves, who cares?

Fill in the blank. I hire anyone. Anyone can do it. I can do bookkeeping now.

Right?

Any questions on that?

I’d love to almost take the work of building out how to and then showing it to you, Jane or whatever that version is because I think it’s the getting confident in that behind one of the non negotiables.

Whatever that first one may be is What’s the deliverable you’re working on?

Sorry to Yeah.

I was just about to say. Honestly, it’s been one I think you shared on Slack.

How to extract all of your emails and contacts from existing inboxes to create an email list. Like, this is something that I have wanted to do. And I’m like, well, you know, what if I really have the need for that, then I’m it’s likely others because starting an email list is one of the hardest things.

To do. So where do you start from? So I’ve now been thinking, well, I should just make a how to you guy for that.

Bingo. That’s the first step in the process. You got it. You just now you’re thinking like a system, and that’s gonna be in your knowledge base.

That’s on the start. Create a new note. Literally like this. Creating a note, and and and don’t that’s the problem.

People make mistakes. Just start with this how to and bookmark this and just work from it. I’m gonna do this, then I’m gonna do this. Oh, no.

I’m not gonna do this. I’m gonna change this up. And by the end of the project, you’ll have a system.

No. Same thing. There’s no difference. People, instead of a gantt chart, now you’re creating a how to god.

And now you can delegate it. Ask for feedback. That’s exactly what you need to do. That’s step one.

Right? Use the and then how you do that, there’s different ways. Like, you wanna do a video? Sure.

Do a do a video, I’ll be doing it as well. Right? We use videos. We use checklists.

The the best ones were if it’s not too long enough as a video on a checklist. Right?

Just to make sure that there’s, like, your your processes there. But but your job is to is exactly what you said. Your job is to create these.

Create these or hire someone who knows this stuff better than you to create them for you. And then the test is that you can do it. Right?

If if my grandma should be able to sit down and do this.

Right? And then you get to that.

Like, when do you start to bring in people to can help you shortcut. And I think that’s what I keep going back to.

Like, hey, I could Google, I could learn, I could do the work of extracting, but then I think there’s that point at which finding people you trust, obviously, because there are always gonna be sensitive areas of your business.

Yeah. Twenty four years old. He manages a six hundred thousand dollar business by himself.

He when he first started working with me, He has no marketing experience. None.

J r, the I did a seminar on with copy hackers on how to do, AI, write articles guess who who came up with it. He’s in charge of it. Like, these guys, he has zero.

He didn’t even know what marketing was. But, like, he just got he got taught on the systems. Like, you I know these they do amazing work because they’re they follow clear processes to do it. It’s do this, do this, do this, do this, and I manage the process. And I and I define success by outcomes. I don’t care when they work. Complete effects of flexibility to work when they want.

I gauge them by outcomes, and I gauge them by following a proven process. That’s it. And once you create those, then you can delegate anything.

This is proof. This this is, like, I I I don’t know what they’re doing. The agency side, this is a million dollar business. I have no idea what they’re doing.

I I’m not even part of it. Val, this this guy right here, he runs everything. I have no idea what they do. He reports outcomes.

That’s it. And then I’m on our cash flows, and I work on systems.

And the end result is an amazing service for the client because that’s so important. Right? And I focus on client relationships, key client accounts.

I I focus on what matters.

They they work on him in the business. Val’s my integrator. This guy’s a genius. He what he didn’t start like that.

Well, he’s been a genius. He’s not I don’t want he is a genius. But he didn’t have the experience, like, to go into it. He just learned off processes.

Right?

And how did you find these people? I think that’s the other thing too.

Like, how do you build that start with one.

Start with your start Jeremy’s been with me for, like, that’s been with me for fifteen years. He’s been with me for, like, Jeremy’s been with me, like, six. J. R. Was hired because he’s his friend.

You know, start with one person and then build out your start with little things.

Right? Build your hire an assistant, and when you’re hiring your assistant, you just put them under operations. Right? And start with your first how to. Anyways, think think of admin mundane admin tasks that we do every single day. Turn those into a how to guide.

I love that. So where would you recommend going to find that one first person to to start, like, I mean, because I’m thinking back to the previous call.

Where Joanna said, like, hey, if you’re having a hard time building out your content for LinkedIn because whatever that may be, then then hire an RA And I’m like, now I’m going, well, I wanna find that person to start testing the building, the systems, and sort of offloading some of the work that You know, it’s slowing me down because it’s one of the areas that I need to be focused on, but don’t love it. I don’t love doing LinkedIn posts, to be honest.

You can automate that. We can delegate that out a hundred percent, to be honest. Like, I don’t easily like, the the I’ve been burnt a couple times. Like, find it’s not it’s hard to find someone that’s really good that you can trust.

But once you do, I’ve learned, like, you you take care of them. You you you give them, like, training, which is which is the systems, their proven processes, like, Jeremy loves direct response. It’s like he loves learning. Right?

You take care of them, you reward them, you let them make mistakes, and then you just you they stay with you. Right? That’s the biggest thing that I’ve learned.

And how did you find that? Like, where did you, you know, in that process of trying to get that person who starts, let’s say, for eight hours a week?

Jeremy was like, who is it the first one? Vit Vit started on this is like so Vit contributes to the WordPress core. Okay? He started when he was with me. He was twenty two years old. And I think he was, like, I was looking for, like, a freelancer to do some WordPress stuff.

And he was, he was out of the Philippines. He’s been with me for, like, god, fifteen, twenty years. I’m godfather to his kids now, but it was building that relationship and and building them up, building them up, building them up, building them up, building them up, and then just helping them succeed. Right?

You you that’s probably in a nutshell. You help them succeed and and achieve what they want, you give them flexibility and stuff. And and I did that with systems. I wouldn’t be able to do it if I didn’t.

Right? We have a whole thing on WordPress support. We’re launching WP total care. Very soon.

Right? So here’s the board. I gotta make sure they they do all this. So here’s the board.

Here’s the system I’m setting Our goal is a is a hundred thousand active customers, a hundred million annual revenue by two thousand thirty three. That’s a bag. I’m not gonna say we’re doing it, but that’s the goal. And this is a system.

Right? Each of these rocks is a is gonna be a process. Here’s my q my q one rocks This is this is a system, and all of these are my deliverals I’m gonna do. I’m gonna create the website, I’m gonna do the pricing plans, I’m gonna do the services, the plans, And then I’m gonna take this, and I’m gonna delegate it out completely. And then I’ll move on to the next business.

Rints and repeat.

And where did you find the people? Did you find, like, you went to fiverr or Upwork?

Yeah.

Up work, you said, Johnson?

Yeah. Yeah. I’m I’m using it right now to hire someone for the social media side of things.

Yeah. And how are you vetting them in a way that, like, obviously, they get good reviews, etcetera. So I think because it’s I’m I’m on that same camp. I wanna find somebody. I I want I wanna kinda build that rapport quickly because it’s time to find and hired.

Yeah.

I mean, you got, like, you you’re gonna get ten, twenty proposals to your to your job.

And usually, I think it’s fine to just shortlist down to two or three.

And give a test project and just be willing to to spend some money to figure out who’s the best That’s really cool, John.

And can I share can you share a little bit about what you’ve learned out of the process that you’re doing going through right now?

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Watch out for fake accounts. There’s a ton of fake accounts. It’s kinda crazy.

Watch out for AI generated proposals. They’re really I think they’re quite easy to spot. But if they’re not easy to spot, then at least they’re doing a good job in their, in their prompting.

And yeah, I’m hopping on a, a video call with each of them before I explain the test project just so I can get a vibe from them as well.

And see if see if we’re a good match.

But, then what I’m doing is sending, a loom of me creating a carousel for LinkedIn explaining to them a little bit as I go, and then asking them, giving them a new script and asking them to, to follow that process, and, and see who who who basically does better.

I love it. And a quick question, how you considered the idea of finding somebody who already is the expert in all things LinkedIn or are you looking for somebody who you could train on that?

I think there’s a lot of VA’s now who are have some experience on LinkedIn, and I think it depends a lot on your strategy.

If you’re totally cool with kind of like, just slowly growing the account and and your followers and, and, being too too, overly worried with it at it, then I think you can get by with someone who’s just a decent virtual virtual system. But personally, I think that then you miss out on a lot of the, kind of extraordinary opportunities that can come out of of, the the the networking process of of LinkedIn. So I I still wanna be kind of top level the one who’s responding to comments, the one who’s leaving comments on posts, for the most part, but either the majority of my work on LinkedIn is is in the the designing of the the carousels. And so I I just wanna make sure that that takes up as little time as possible.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I did think about running all of my previous comments through it, like, into a, an AI assistant in playground. And using that to see if it could generate responses that sounded enough like me that I could hand that, that bot over to to a a virtual assistant, and then they could just, respond on my back.

Yeah. It’s interesting.

I looked at Tap Leo, and I I’m not sure if I’m gonna continue with it because I was doing a one month on it, and they do have the ability where somebody where they don’t have direct access in your LinkedIn account, they can potentially write posts and send them to you and then you can review them and then schedule them or It’s Yeah.

I don’t think Tapair is really I don’t it’s okay. It’s it’s but I don’t think it’s great. And I think it would just be better better off, personally, training a virtual assistant to who who gets to understand you, your process, the stuff that you’re interested in, and can become like a, you know, a partner in writing.

Yeah.

What one of the things to do is, like, there’s there’s two types of assistance. Right? There’s, like, what I do is you have it doesn’t once you create your process, a step by step guide, it doesn’t matter who you hire, to be honest. You can as long as the the outcome is there and you teach them how to do that, anyone can do it.

But there’s the other type of hire is to send them a video and say to them, take this video and create a step by step process from that video, and then have them send you the soap.

Right, because ideally you wanna hire someone that is capable of doing that, right, to help you set up these systems and automate.

And you’d be surprised on on it it it seems simple, but it’s not for people to think like that. Right?

That’s worked well. Like, we did that for optimizing WordPress page speed. I sent a video and asked people to to, turn that into a soap. And then we they sent the soap. We paid them, like, a hundred bucks. It and we didn’t have them do all of it, but, like, a couple of pages, and then we we hired based off that. Right?

That’s really interesting.

Yeah. But don’t but I’m I’m like, if you get freelancers and stuff, like, Most of the stuff, like, if you get how to guides, you don’t have to worry about, like, who cares if if they’re freelancers, they’re gonna come and go. Don’t wanna work with you full time, have them. Right?

Or you don’t have them could be outsourcing it. I don’t care as long as they follow the process. It doesn’t matter to me. If you’re gonna hire someone like a virtual assistant and you you wanna mentor them and coach them, Right?

Do what I do and and sort of test them.

Yeah. It’s so interesting because I hear the two sides of Hey, you could put higher than knowledge base of somebody, let’s say, in a specific expertise domain area of LinkedIn.

And you could have them do some work for you then help create SOP for you to follow.

If that is something that they would do.

And then from that expertise, you can learn and do at the same time and create some how to for or yourself.

And then eventually you could hire a VA, you know, to help you keep the longevity of the how to going of LinkedIn posting. I mean, I’m I’m I’m thinking this all out loud as I go because LinkedIn is the bait of my existence.

I do not like it, but Take a course, document the process on it.

There’s there’s your process. And then as long as you achieve the outcome, You good? It’ll change over time, but your VA will, like, like, Jeremy knew nothing about GMB before that. Now he’s an expert.

That changes so fast that overnight, like, anyone who says they know everything about anything is is lying. Like, it’s impossible and just changes so quickly. But that’s where that’s the opportunity. You get them to update the guides, the soaps, whatever you wanna call them.

That’s their responsibility. Right?

Yeah. And if as long as the outcome’s the same, but I a lot of people, that’s the screw up too, is people don’t get clear on what exactly what they want.

Right? As long as you’re clear on the outcome, how you get there can change over time. But but as long as you’re you know exactly what you want and what success looks like, you can figure out how to get there. You can create a process, and then you can document that process. Then you can delegate and automate.

I also wouldn’t be worried about getting it, like, I wouldn’t worry about optimizing that process too much either. Like, it’s such a messy experience, social media, and and growing LinkedIn, and Like, it’s it’s not gonna be, like, it’s it’s it’s never gonna be perfect. And I think what’s most important is just, like, getting the right attitude, getting the right system.

It might be do this though.

Like, here’s the that’s a great question. So here’s the the social media. Right? So you’re whenever you have them do something, you’re linking to the system, and this is a living document.

This how to guide is a living document. So every time he goes in and he optimizes his GMV profile, right, it may be different. And if that’s the case, then he just updates the step. So this is a living, breathing document that’s assigned to him.

So step one, this may not be relevant. In a time. Okay. I’m just gonna update this. I’m gonna update I’ll remove this step. I’ll remove this step, but you’re always working from this document.

Does that make sense?

And that’s that’s the secret. Right? That’s one of the the the ways that you you systemize your business.

I love systems. Yeah. It’s just the how to and what system to start with.

And How about we do one together?

Do you wanna do you and I will work together and we’ll start I will I’m gonna put this together because I wanted to use Joe’s that was relevant because it it is a bit of a mindset and it’s a shift, but I wanted to do this as an example, but I’ll let me work with you on that. Will pick one of the things you’re working on, and then you and I are gonna organize it, and that’s gonna be your very first system.

I love that. And then you know what it’s gonna be? It’s gonna be my email list.

So how let’s break that down. So what is the what is the outcome that you wanna achieve?

Well, I mean, I’m so curious how many latent emails I okay. Yeah. It’s a good question. So first of all, I’m gonna walk through what’s on my mind. What what number of emails do I have that are potential opportunities within my Email accounts.

You’re gonna segment your list.

That’s the first step.

We’ll extract my list first.

You’re gonna extract your list, then you’re gonna segment. Then what’s next?

And I’m gonna segment.

And then I’m gonna Define segment.

What are you segmenting by?

Well, I’m gonna leave that one for a second, but I think what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna check to how clean the list is.

So you’re gonna clean your list first. So that’s the first step.

And then check deliverability somehow. Then I’m probably then gonna segment my list on what criteria?

Maybe, we’ll figure that out as we go and we’ll document it.

Six. So and then six is, okay, taking that list and then setting it up with an email marketing platform.

There you go. Now you have now we’re gonna document that, put a how to, whatever the outcome is, and then it’s a repeatable process. So now you can do it if they ever come across that task again. And that’s an evergreen task, meaning that it’s never gonna change.

The tools may change, but the you’re still had a segment of list inside a segment of whether to use a tag or what it is. Right? And now if you wanted to, you could delegate that to someone and say segment my list, and then I’m gonna send this evergreen campaign from this list, and now you’re gonna have a how to guide on the other you see how it all connects?

Yeah. And I think the question too becomes how do you I’ve always wondered how you take personal emails to your personal inbox and then clean them and make sure you can deliver to them.

We’ll figure that out and we’ll create a we’ll create the anything like that Yeah. Is a process that you that you can do anything. It’s just there’s a process. You gotta figure out how to get that and you gotta document that process. We’ll figure it out and we’ll document it as we go. And we’ll save it, and that’s the first thing that’s gonna be in your system.

I love it. That’s my that’s my project or my system.

Well, it’s it’s one of the piece, and that’s related. So so the the trick, and I think what Joe’s what she wants you to do these daily these daily things because it’s it should be part of your your overarching goal. Like any of these non negotiables need to support a goal.

Yeah. Okay. They they need to, like, the related to the health. Like, you focus on the twenty percent that is gonna help you achieve eighty percent of your goal. We all have a goal to achieve celebrity status. All your non negotiables need to support that.

Right? And they’re gonna be subsets of this.

And that’s the question of where you’re and then I don’t know the to it is like you said. Okay. If I have that email list, how many of them can I actually use? How many can I potentially put into a newsletter or email to drive sub stack? But when I have that email list and I have a clean deliverable I feel like there’s a a sense of, you know, knowing where I’m at because everyone talks about re algorithm could change from a social media perspective, but you always have the bankable, you know, email list that could convert into paying at any time that you choose to do maybe a course or a webinar or etcetera.

So that’s kind of the work But Can I can I give you an opportunity?

Yeah. Talk to Joe about creating a course on how to launch a sub stack newsletter.

There’s there’s opportunities everywhere because that’s what the course is. It’s a detailed step by step how’s you guide. And anyone can figure it there is a process that you need to follow. It will change.

Yes. Technology changes. I get it. But if that happens, it’s little tweaks.

That’s the opportunity.

Right? You just said two systems to me. You said a system on how to segment and clean your email list and a system on how to launch a sub stack newsletter. Yeah.

There’s opportunities for both of those. It’s what you do with them afterwards. And if you don’t document and do what we said, you don’t have those opportunities. Yeah.

You see the difference?

Yeah.

Think system. So do that. I I would do that. Of course, if it’s a good course, you gotta learn how to do it anyways. Correct me if I’m wrong, it’s not gonna do itself.

Yeah. No. That completely reminds me of something I’m working on with a fellow marketer. It’s like, we’re reaching out to some chiropractors and physical therapists, and a lot of them have, like, large lists of people that haven’t come in for, like, an adjustment or, like, just kinda touching base to see whether at, like, mentally wise or health wise.

And one of the things we’re working on is, yeah, learning how to clean their list properly so then we can, a segment to people who haven’t been in, like, six plus months versus people who haven’t been like a year out, you know. So it’s like, obviously, the people that are year out are gonna need a little bit more nurturing and things like, hey, you know, these three reasons are why it’d be great to come in. Here’s a fifty percent offer. Take your first one free, and then we’ll give you what whatever the offer is.

The offer is still being milled over. But that exact same thing is where we’re starting. So it’s like, I’d love to get on with you guys more about, like, the the scrubbing and the email things like that because that’s, like, one of my main focuses for sure.

And one of you need you need process. I’ll tell you why. Because in Canada, you have to segment if they haven’t contacted you within two years, you can’t email them. Oh.

But you need a process that that’s why you document it. Right? And it and you in it the outcome is to send okay. Let’s talk about the outcome.

Your outcome isn’t to is to segment and clean an email list. Your outcome is to send a segment and keep clean an email list in Canada or you could have three different soaps depending in there’s Europe, there’s a different process.

In Canada, there’s a different process, the US has a double opt in. It’s implied consent.

You have to have these processes. You have to document it because you’re gonna get in trouble down. You can get sued for that. Right.

If you don’t have a process, what are you gonna do?

And nobody has it ask anyone. Hey, do you have a process on, like, sending an email list in Canada? I do. They don’t. So what you’re sending you mean you’re emailing people? You know, you’re not following a process?

Now we’re just going in swinging, man.

That’s and that’s what people do. They figured out as they go, which is good, but you don’t they’re not documenting it, and they’re not saving it.

They’re doing themselves in justice because they’re missing out on an opportunity. Each of these is an opportunity. Every single one of them.

Yeah. And it’s so true. No. And where are you based?

I’m in Oregon, North America.

Yeah. And that’s the I think doesn’t Canada have double opt in too?

No. You have to it’s over it is, but it no. No. It doesn’t have double opt in here.

It’s, like, over two years. If they haven’t taken any action or contacted you, you can’t email them. And then they used to have implied consent, but it’s only implied consent if they schedule the the console. Like, if you and that doesn’t involve text.

There’s a whole different set of rules for texting. Just because you schedule a console doesn’t mean I can you. I can email you. That’s implied consent.

Text is double opt in. And it has to be within a certain, like, there’s certain rules. You gotta document that. Right?

Right. I love that idea of, like, you do. We do. Like, there was a really good realtor in, when I was working in real estate, she would train her team and she had crazy systems like that and want her very first system, which is you do, we do, then they do. So it’s like build that system out, do it a little bit together, and then they’re just fully on their own, which it sounds like exactly what you’ve you’ve done, Shane.

You need to. And if you don’t if you wanna start hiring VA’s and delegating and stuff, you need to systems. You need to literally have your business run on how tos.

And then and then you’re not managing you’re setting them up, but then you’re the person that you’re hiring to manage these, you put it in their job description that they’re responsible for maintaining these. Right? And just by the nature of doing it, and literally they work from these when they do the task. Like, they have this open, and they’re like, check, check, check, check, check.

And as it changes, they’re updating it as they go. So it’s always it’s always a living document. Right?

I set up any evergreen funnel. Step one. Check. Check check check check check. Oh, this worked.

I’m gonna update this. Right? I’m gonna do this. Love that.

Yeah. This isn’t working very good. This is killing it. So let’s just replace this with that.

So You got it. And now it’s a living document that was always there, and then it’s like, and that’s this is a course. I could easily turn this into a course. I could easily turn this into, a a bunch. I could do so much with this. Right?

Yeah.

It’s funny how it’s still, like, reminiscent of, like, building out pillar content, if we build out like a newsletter, then you can sort of repurpose a portion of that as a blog or as a YouTube short or or as whatever it is, but there’s the same similar methodology with the system going into a course or if you have a process, yeah. If you have the process.

Right.

If if you treat each one as a system and a how to, absolutely, you can. And that and that’s where you have the opportunities. Like, it’s and then eventually you can do what other people do. Like, they’ll hire other people to build the systems for them, which is, of course, Right?

The you hire someone to build a course. You’re hiring them to build a system. Same thing. You’re just gonna sell that course.

You can turn it into a product if you really wanted to, but you’re gonna have them document the whole step, a to z. Because that’s gonna be the course.

Make sense?

Yeah. Totally. Love that way of thinking about it too, for sure. Definitely some mind opening stuff there?

It is a my I know it’s a shift and I was trying to, like, I was trying to figure out, like, what’s the best way to do it.

And I think another way is my like, I’ll work with you manique, and we’ll we’ll start building out your system step by step.

Starting with what you’re working on, and we’ll use this as a plan. And then that’s gonna help people sort registered as well. Okay?

Yeah. This is great.

Did it make sense that it came across? Like, I was hoping I was I was struggling like, how can I explain this? Like, I was trying to get across, like, because I know it’s a bit of a mind bend when you something versus a system versus like a plan versus a marketing plan. It’s a subtle difference, but it’s a big one.

Well, and I think it’s even discovering within the how to guide that there are going to be areas where And I keep going back when somebody asks you, like, oh, how did you do that within the obvious thoughts, odds of where you’re doing something?

Then that becomes another how to guide as well. Right? Because that expert curse, you start to forget where your knowledge is is just automatic. And then the other moments where you have people say, oh, how’d you do that? Then that becomes the chain, you know, and and it’s sort of like embedding those in places that, essentially, it starts with an idea. Like, my idea is I’d like to get an email list for what personal contacts and start the process of cleaning them and segmenting them and then selecting the right service, email marketing platform, because quite honestly, there’s so many of them. It’s they’re so expensive if you don’t pick the right one, and it’s super confusing.

And I feel like the process of even selecting an e email marketing platform is, of course, in itself, Yeah.

What’s the last Nolan, what’s the last deliverable you just did with the client?

We were working on a It was a marketing business who markets to cash based physical therapist, which I didn’t even know was a thing. So their thing is, like, in ninety days or less, we’ll get you thirty k of revenue where we work with you for free.

And, yeah, that’s what’s Well, what did you create for them?

Like, you created a website? Yeah. So if if I asked you to hand me a step by step how to guide, could you do it? No. That’s that’s the missed opportunity. Exactly.

What you just told me I didn’t document it.

Exactly. Now it will.

Next time, you better believe I’m gonna be recording.

That’s huge. Yeah.

Exactly. If you do it anyways, people do it anyways, but they have a project mindset. There’s a start and an end date. Wow. That’s not the way to look at it.

It’s like, no. There’s a bridge or whatever the house, whatever you wanna build metaphorically. We’re coming back into it, you know.

You got it. Bill that. You got it.

That’s I don’t know why.

Maybe it’s because I watched Lord of the Rings recently. I keep picturing, like, this medieval, like, three foot long river in, like, this whole family jumping over, jumping over to get to their house every time. But it’s like, no. Just build the bridge or the bakery or whatever this system is because it’s gonna be repeatable scalable regardless if they’re infants that can’t jump it, elderly people. Like, it just needs to be easy, reputable, and scalable. Exactly.

Yeah. And you’re doing it anyways. You’re you’re you’re you did that anyways. All you had to do was instead of that project plan, just work, and it’s so much easier. You have a page.

I just don’t build the bridge. I jumped over the river, like, oh, there’s not gonna jump back. Yeah.

Yeah. No. And it would be so interesting if you could do a Loom video pretending that you started from beginning knowing what you know and just do what you did on my video.

As you go, you’re moving somewhere. What you and I just did? Same thing. You’re moving stuff around.

You’re like, start, and it’s a living document. You just link to that living document and you book time to work on it. That’s it. Right.

You you’re struck, and that’s your daily non negotiable. I’m gonna spend one hour a day working on my email list.

And then you’re gonna wait two minutes.

After this call, but, like, what did I do since I’m still kind of working on it? So it’s still very fresh. Obviously, had I been doing it as I was doing it? That’s ideal. You know?

Exactly. And then your documents Right.

Then in there, and you’re like, oh, this kinda suck. Oh, this worked really well. Now I’m kinda like, Did that work well? Did I go back? You know? Yeah.

Well, and then you could take the transcript of you talking through the video and turn it give it to chat GBT and say, turn into a step by step process.

I got it. You got it. Now you’re thinking. Record yourself. I do that with little mundane task. And I and I transcribe it and I turn it into because you never know.

Right? Yeah. You never know. And before you know it, you’ll have hundreds of little how to’s in their evergreen. They are never gonna change. The process is always the same.

And then you step back.

That’s my goal. I’ve gotta learn how to do this.

Well, we’re gonna I’m gonna work with you on it.

I’m gonna work with you on we’re gonna you and I will spend some time and we’ll work on the the pro because it just so to reinforce it. And we’ll start building out the first thing is to build out your knowledge base. Right? Have those three folders, operations, your finance admin, and then your sales and marketing. The the the operations or the sales and marketing and the finance admin, those are your core functions. Those support your operations, and your operations is delivering the service.

Yeah.

Right? Then make those distinction, and then you’re good. And this create how to guys each of them and then you’re golden.

How to invoice a client, how to there’s a process for that. Right?

Oh my god. How to build proposals?

Bingo.

And then you can you can outsource that and delegate. Here’s how to build a proposal? Okay. Let’s let’s think like a system Okay? Let’s let’s do a discovery call with the client. Let’s create a story framework.

Let’s ask those questions in the same steps as the story framework. Let’s take that, transcribe it, and then let’s you see what we’re doing. We’re creating a process.

Yeah. I know.

I just had it And then let’s send it to design.

I just had this whole conversation with, people who, you know, are trying to negotiate payment terms, for example, and have the conversation about, you know, you’ve gotta put in and I’ve told them, like, you’ve gotta make sure that you put on the interest if it’s, you know, so that If they don’t pay, you’re not getting mad, accounting them. The the reality is is, you know, it’s passive income until you get paid. Now granted you wanna get paid the full amount, Like, I never thought about that, but there’s all these nuggets that are in us that, you know, are able, you know, to be shared.

Like you said, even on a invoice. Like, what are the key things about an invoice that are gonna protect you, for example?

Ask anyone in the group, hey, sending a proposal. Can anyone send me their step by step process and how they do it?

Yeah. It’s all in their head. Yep. Right. And that’s a missed opportunity.

Yep. And then that means okay. They may function in their head. But they can’t they can’t delegate it. They can’t automate it, and that’s the trap. Because once you get in the trap, you’re working on the in the business.

And if you’re working on it in the business, you’re screwed. You’re gonna it’s gonna lean to burn out.

You’re gonna There’s gonna be so many hours in the day, you know.

Exactly. You got it.

But ironically no one has I need a system for my client outreach because it’s definitely in my head, and I gamify in a Excel spreadsheet, but I need to just have it systemized.

Like, Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I would know and I would definitely, hey, we can cheat. We could be like, this is my how to guy. I’ll change it. It becomes a exchange retailers out to you guys.

For sure. Yeah. No. And it’s fun because you can kinda gamified, like, all my conversion rate sucks with this kind of business, or it’s like my I need to work on this portion of it and you can kinda see I can see that being implemented in the system and being like, okay. This sucks. We’re gonna scrap it or consistently trying to hone in on it and just make it more.

Even ask if you ask anyone in the group, like, your social media say, well, does anyone, like, post on social media? Yeah. I do. And then ask for the step by step how to guide.

They won’t be able to give it to you. And the missed opportunity is that you can delegate that stuff. Well, no. I’m not gonna do.

I’m looking for a VA, but you’re looking for a VA. You don’t have the process yet. Build the process and then hire your VA, and then now you have something to gauge the success by whether they’re they’re doing a good job or not because you have a proven process.

Yeah. It’s all about that for sure.

Yeah. It’s simple. So okay. I’m glad you guys, like, it’s I was trying to okay. It it is helpful. It it came across. Okay.

Very, very well spoken.

I think Yeah.

I’ll work with you, Monica, Monique. Sorry. We’ll we’ll we’ll work together, buddy. Do you want Nolan, I can work with you too, buddy. If you wanna, like, work on some.

I would love that for sure.

And we can both start with the with the authority plan.

Like, just looking at that, and we’ll start with one of the deliverables.

Like, what do you What’s the first thing that you’re working on, Nolan, for your authority plan?

For me right now, it’s like my productized services because I have a couple clients that I’ve worked with in the past, and they’re like, was trying to negotiate, and I know everyone wants to pay down here to get up here. So it’s just like I just wanna have my services out there and like, this is what it is. If you want it, great. If not, I don’t I don’t really like to negotiate things like that. It’s, like, I feel like they disrespect my business at that point in time, and it’s, like, I don’t really wanna not that I don’t wanna work with them, but it’s just like, I would prefer just being, like, This is the price set in stone, and that’s it. Okay.

So the outcome is, let’s use a framework. Right? The outcome is that you wanna productize a service in your in your company Correct?

Right.

Now to get to that point, the very first step that we’re gonna need to do is you need to look at the services within the past couple of years that you’ve delivered and you wanna focus on the twenty percent of services that generated eighty percent on your your revenue, the high ticket stuff, okay, or the stuff that you’re frequently delivering.

That’s the first step. Then once you know that, you can identify the product that you’re actually gonna productize.

Then the second step is that the actual process to productize that service, and it just so happens, Joanna has a really cool course on that. That’s your process. And at the end of it, you take that how to manual and you productize another service. Then you can’t dispute.

Course is that?

I I don’t know if it’s launched yet.

Ryan’s doing it right now.

Sorry. Is it right? Yeah. I think he’s I think he’s doing it right, but that’s what he’s doing.

Oh, the productized service one.

Yeah. The productized service.

That’s Oh, yeah.

Good call.

That’s your how to guide.

And we can we can build that out and then document it. But then we’re also gonna have to get into let’s let’s look at something else you’re gonna have to automate. When part of automating your creating product high service is finalizing your sales funnel.

You’re gonna have to create a sales pipeline. You’re gonna have to do your marketing funnel.

Those are systems you’re gonna have to create.

Right.

You might you have to document them. Right? And then you save those to your knowledge base. Now you have four different how to guides So as simple as that.

So open up a Google doc, literally name it how to, and then link to it from your the plan that Joe has, the authority plan.

Are you working on that now?

Is that when it’s due this quarter?

I believe so. Yeah.

Is it? So put it here. Literally do this, buddy. You do this as, like, literally do this. It’s so, like, don’t over complicate it.

So say it’s in the shop.

Literally do this. How to productize, you know, a service, and then link to the how to document, and then you just and then that opens up and then just work from it. That’s your perfect plan. Figure out as you go.

I’m literally doing that after this, call.

You see how simple that is?

And people do, like, hand charts and you wanna sit on the email one, because I would love productized services the next thing to do.

Honestly, like, I feel like once I have a productized service, and that email base, they kinda are together starting point.

That’d be the only one without the other. Right? You’ll need the you can’t do one to figure it out. Yeah. Exactly.

Yep.

So I’d know, and I’d happily go in, like, if we wanna sit together and do the email and then prioritize service, that would be to really great how to guys, I think, to get me going.

Share the plan. You guys share this with me both of you and then and then figure out the trick is in each quarter.

This right here is a process. You can’t do what are you gonna do in q one? What are you gonna do in q two? In q one, you’re gonna productize a service.

What you’re really saying is you’re gonna create a step by step process to productize the service. And the end of it, you’re gonna have your process documented. What are we gonna do in q two? Well, you’re gonna sell and market that.

Right? That’s and that’s what Jill’s trying to to teach you guys, right, each to look at it that way.

Right. And then don’t link, and you’re oh, it’s so simplifying it, guys.

Like Right.

It’s literally just breaking it down to very first principles, like engineering stuff. I love that.

Bingo. And not only that, buddy. Think about it. All you’re doing don’t get caught up on, like, these stupid task management stuff. Like, people time block individual tasks, that’s mind numbing. No.

Just block out time to work on your authority status, link to your the authority on it, and then just work from your online document. Pick up where you left off.

Exactly. You see how long that is. So easy to follow, and that just makes perfect sense honestly.

Exactly. And that and that’s the way to do everything in your business.

And It’s always so over complicated, but there’s this.

There’s this. And it’s like, man, there’s so many opportunities, but it’s, like, really just systemize it, and there won’t be as many opportunities, you know, hone in on what matters, you know.

Exactly. And your project plan is a how to guide. That’s it.

Yeah.

I mean, I’d love to have one productized service by the end of January that I could send you an you know, email list in on social media and just say, here it is to your point, and all I’m like I can help you.

If you want to do the productized service, we we have about ten, fifteen productized service.

As we’ve launched. We make one service makes about a hundred k, a year. So I can help you guys with that step by step because part of the process is you’re gonna have to you you you’re gonna have to have a system to to market it to sell it than deliver the service as well. Right? But that’s easy. That’s just con that’s just can ban. It’s to do doing done, and then you but you automate it, that what you’re gonna need is part of your process that you’re gonna have is like a client discovery, but you’re gonna automate that.

Right? And that’s gonna give you everything you need to build it. And then at the end, the trick with a productized service is not to do it, just to automate it and delegate it.

Right? Your job is to build the system not to not to do the work. Right.

I feel it.

That’s if you wanna scale.

I feel like if we do one productized service to three of us altogether from beginning to end as you describe it, Shane, I would, like, have a massive unlock.

You guys wanna if you guys wanna pick a service, the productized service, I will help you guys. I promise you guys in three months, will you’ll have a fully productized service. I’ll even do to help you guys. I don’t mind.

Like, I I’m all of it win win, like, succeeding in life. I’d like to help people is I will my agency will do the the this stuff. Like, we’ll we’ll code it for you. We’ll do all that stuff.

Right? I’ll I’ll walk you guys through the what we just did on building the system. The end goal will have a complete system on how to launch a productized service.

The stuff like the landing pages and all that stuff my agency will take care of will use WordPress.

We’ll we’ll we’ll do that for you. And in the end of three months, you will literally have a productized service you can give to the students and say, well, I’m gonna I’m gonna start making money from this.

Oh my gosh. That’s it.

But it’s easy, though, guys. It’s but it’s it’s it’s possible and it’s easy as long as you approach it as a how to guide.

Right? Right.

So it’s That’s the productized service.

That’s it.

Yeah. Without those systems, it’s just so overwhelming because there’s so many moving pieces. And there doesn’t need to be that many moving pieces. I know.

Focus on the twenty percent that is gonna achieve eighty percent of your results. That’s it.

I’m not sure if that is yet, but I’m willing to get jump on in So what would be what would be the next meeting type?

Like, where Nolan and I could no.

Are you What would you can send me your authority plans, but send me those authority plans.

I’ll bookmark them. I’m gonna create a system. I’m gonna I’m gonna do what I’m doing. I’m gonna I live this stuff.

Seventy authority plans, I’m gonna create a system to help you guys launch product high service. Okay? Then we’re gonna work from that and and then I’ll show you how the first step is we have to define, okay, we know what the outcome is, and we know what you guys wanna achieve celebrity status. You’ve chosen your one thing.

Then once that’s done, we’re gonna start if you wanna start with a product size service, that’s fine. We’re gonna schedule it out.

And we’re not we’re not gonna get caught up where it’s like, In q one, I’m gonna do this phase. In q two, I’m gonna do this phase. No. We’re gonna say, by the end of q two, we’re gonna have a fully productized service. You’re gonna link to a how to check mark list. That’s it. And we’re gonna figure it as we go.

Easy, peasy. Right.

Love that out. It’s just like simple reverse engineer. Like, what do we want? Okay. Let’s just work a little bit backwards straight lines for That’s it, man. Not branching out over here. We’re not branching out over there.

Think about it two calendars. Like, I’m a bit of geek with time management, about how, like, mind numbing that is when people, like, actually time block specific tasks. That’s insane.

Rate time block outcomes.

Just set aside time. Everyone, well, what is my one thing that I should be working on? My my non negotiable?

What they’re really saying is I’m not clear on on the outcome that I want. I’m not clear on my goals because if you don’t know the outcome or the goal, you can’t you don’t know the process to get there, and that that’s what they’re confused about. Right? That’s the issue.

Right? And then when you block, you time block, you just focus on progress. Today, I’m gonna work on my authority site. I’m gonna open up the how to document, and I’m just gonna pick up where I left off and move to the next step. And then I promise you in three months, you’re gonna have something really good.

Awesome. Love that.

Alright, guys?

Okay. Is it the but it made sense. Everyone, any last questions before we go, I know we always stay longer than it’s, any other any other questions on that?

No. I think it’s just letting it all sync sync in.

Yeah. Let it sync in, and I and it’s gonna really sync in when we do it together and also give everyone else examples of it, including, like, how to set up the knowledge base because you’re really setting up your system on how to run your business. Right?

As well. And we make a here’s another tip. When you’re creating your product type service, you’re gonna need to invoice clients. You’re gonna wanna automate you’re gonna need a you’re gonna need a how to guide on how to invoice clients.

Right. And see how it connects? And before you know it, you have, like, from that one productized service, you’re gonna have twenty different how to guides in each different department that night you can automate or delegate.

Well, I do have a business.

Exactly. Now you’re systemizing your business. Exactly. And that’s the mindset to have. Right?

Right.

It’s a big it’s a subtle one, man, but it’s it’s a big one. Right?

Well, and one of the things that I’ve really been thinking about that Joanna had said is that you don’t actually need a website. You just need a landing page, which is can be within Stripe.

And I was like, that’s a bit of a I don’t even have a website, guys.

Yeah. You don’t even need a website. No.

And this There’s different ways.

And that’s a lot a lot of where I’ve been hung up on my business is the fact that I don’t have a website up.

And I’ve sort of It depends on your strategy.

You don’t need a website.

It depends on I know.

And I think that is in itself a how to guide. Like, by the way, you don’t need a website to have a very profitable business. And here’s how you can have a landing page and a place where you create these services. Like, I think that’s that how to guide is a value alone.

Well, the the the how to guide on that is it’s a it’s so that there is a there is a guy. That’s what we did as partner Right? So we have agency partners we work with, where they white label all of our our work. Right? So we’re doing the work. And but their clients don’t know it, but the work we’re doing is product sized and delegated out.

So I don’t we don’t have a website because I don’t need to because we always have business coming in. And then the the services are all productized, systemized, and then it allows me to do like, I have a lot of time on my hands because it’s I can.

Right? I have two kids, but it’s but it’s building the system to get up to that. Right?

That’s the secret. That’s that there’s a whole that’s that’s what you do. Right? Right?

Definitely working a lot smarter than harder, but like you said, it wasn’t like you couldn’t just flip a switch on it, like, work smarter.

You had to work hard to learn and fail from and no one thinks like this guys trust me.

Nobody thinks systems. That’s why there’s such burnout. That’s why people get, like, frustrated. That’s why everyone’s saying Don’t do agency work.

Don’t do agency work. But you hear Joe say, yeah, do agency work. There’s a lot of money to be made. What she’s really saying is system Like, she’s she you don’t think she has.

It doesn’t have a a clear cut system and processes in place to deliver? You bet she does.

Right.

Right? And that’s what she’s really but people will start an agency, but they won’t think they don’t even have their services productized. That’s crazy.

I feel like that’s you gotta set that up early for your Exactly.

You don’t need custom work, you you just need to solve problems.

Right. Right. This is it. Either you want it or you don’t. If not, there’s thirty million businesses in just the US alone.

So Well, yeah, but the beauty of it is you don’t you don’t need to tell they don’t need to they’re they’re getting an amazing product and because it’s a systemized and you’re you’re ensuring consistent results.

They’re actually getting a better product than this custom stuff. Right? But you don’t have to sell it as that. Right?

Like, when we deal with the clients, we’ll we’ll charge, like, say, like, twenty grand for a website. It’s a proven system that we use. We use ADA framework. You don’t think it’s a step by step process.

They it’s custom, but it’s not. Right? Yeah. That’s the key. That’s the trick. But if you don’t think like that and you start an agency, you’re done.

You’re burnt out. I’ve been there. Trust me. You don’t wanna go there. It’s depressing. I I had depression because of It’s, like, this is years and years ago.

You don’t wanna you don’t wanna go, man. This stuff works. I have a clinic in Los Angeles. I have rental properties an agency, multiple productized services going on, kids, and it’s all systemized, right?

That I’m not I’m not like it’s genius. It’s just just create systems and figure it out.

I’m so excited.

I feel like this is so stuff.

Yeah. I’m I’m really, like, I guess now it’s a question of I’ll send you my authority. I’ll update it.

Then maybe authority site guys, both of you, please, and then we’ll work through it. And then let’s let’s both of us aim the three of us. Each of you guys will have a productized service.

Let’s say you wanna do three months from now this quarter. You wanna do the business quarter?

I would love to do is end of January, like unrealistic?

No. This is we’re talking end of no. No. You can’t. It’s not you wanna So a good rule of thumb is every three months.

So a good rule of thumb is take it deliverable, and and focus on completing that within the ninety days. So then it’s like there’s twelve week here. You have four quarters. It’s a lot of work.

You’ll get a lot done. Trust me. So during q one, you focus on your if that’s what you need to focus on first, I don’t know what you guys do. Like, it may be if that’s what you guys wanna do within q one, that’s gonna help you achieve your status.

Then do that. Right? But your goal is to have that done by q one.

Yeah. Revenue for me is number one before status at this point. Like, I can link I can do LinkedIn. I can build my book, but I feel like, you know, and some of the newsletters, but I honestly feel like the revenue and scaling part of it is the safety net.

If that if that’s the focus on it, like, it then then that’s the how you get there, the process is gonna be different. Like you said, we talked about that, remember. For you, it’s about maintaining cash flow. Other people, it’s not. The process is gonna be different how you achieve that outcome.

Yeah. But we’re gonna work on that. And if that’s what it is, sure, let’s aim for q one, both of you will have a productized service, and then we can start, driving traffic to it. And selling it. Right? So we’ll have to think you’re gonna have to hire a VA. You may have to do it yourself originally.

But you have a VA and then we’ll use my agency, I’ll help. Hey. Let’s I’ll work with you guys on that. We’ll we’ll get you guys what you need on that, and then we’ll have some fun.

Epic. I appreciate that, man.

No. No worries, man. It’s it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s fun when you think about it, man. I get, I get good with this stuff, but it’s, It’s, I love anyways, it’s, we’re good. Any any questions before we go, guys?

I know we’re over Above and beyond everything answered for me.

I know. I just want to say above and beyond. And I think the only thing is if there’s a book that you recommend or something you recommend to just, like, read, or listen to, I would take that in between now and the next time we connect, I guess.

On systems, like sort of creating, it’s it’s not there’s a yeah. There’s a couple I’d recommend. Like, it’s, like, kind of the same approach.

But just remember the the the just focus on, like, Anything you look at you’re about to do doesn’t matter what it is. You’re gonna wash your hands. Okay. What’s the outcome? Clean hands. What’s the process?

Rinse with soap, lather up with soap, rinse my hands, towel. Okay. Now you have a system. You have approvable and approach everything like that. Right.

Making a cup of tea. We’ll put the water on first, then you pour the tea into the ball, then you pour the ball. Yeah. Exactly.

You got it in one turn. You got it.

Maybe that’s the work.

Is this, like, going through the next few days of, like, what’s the outcome? What the in the process is the how to guide?

Bingo, and that’s your project plan. That’s all you’re working from.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then when you you book time out on your calendar and you link to the how to guide and you pick up where you left off. Easy piece. Yeah. You do anything.

Trust me. That that’s, like, over time management is the most, like, overrated thing in the world. Just Like, just block time and work on it. Don’t give yourself deadlines.

Your deadline is q is q one. You’ll reach it. Trust me.

You don’t need to give yourself milestones and all this crap. You’ll get there. Awesome.

I love it. Okay.

Alright, guys.

I’m gonna go make yourself a cup of tea, and it’s gonna be a mint tea that’s hot.

And and have a sheet of paper beside you and think steps. Step one. Right. Step two. Step three. Yeah. And then put that beside it, and then you could say to your children, Go make mom a cup of tea.

Right.

That’s unfortunate.

You got love it.

Exactly. And now you get the perfect moments exactly the way you like it. Right?

Love it. Alright.

I’ll talk to you guys.

Resources

Walkthrough of Shane’s systems and processes organization

Resources

Walkthrough of Shane’s systems and processes organization

Shane’s systems folders