Maybe I should ask for this. But, like, in the, like, online coaching world, I just don’t know how to get I don’t know how to, like, show up with a bottle of scotch. Like, I don’t know how to get anybody to talk to me. And, like, doing my own voice of customer process with my own resources is not useful because Yeah. They’re not on my email list. Like, they’re not, you know, past clients for interviews.

Do you what have you done to try to do you have a list of these three million plus coaches out there?

Of the three million plus? No. I have a list of, like, people I know at the million dollar level. The the three million plus is a recent addition from from the intent.

Good. One of the thing I mean, I’m in I’m in a program of a coach who I would like to work with. K. And she has like, there’s a monthly thread where people post their questions about their biggest challenges right now. So, like, that’s been really insightful.

Nice.

But only as a glimpse, not as a conversation.

Yeah.

So what I would say is if I were you, I would spend time. I’d block out a couple hours to go through and and do the research to come up with that list. And for me, that, what I have found, and I’m sure you’ve seen this too, is in the coaching space, there’s, like, a hub. There’s a central hub of the most influential coaches who coach other coaches. And those coaches then go out and coach other coaches, but it all kinda comes back to this this center group. What I would do if I was you is I would, find that center person.

Ed Mylett is a really common one. Like, he’s the head of so many of these massive coaching organizations.

So there’s, Ed Mylett. There might be, like, Hormozi, but he doesn’t, from what I understand, take on private clients.

They’re Brandon Burchard, and I would say Brandon style. Right? So you’ll need to go out and be like, okay.

Freaking Google search Ed Mylett in quotes plus, and then just throw, like, another coach’s name in there and see if you can see, like, summits they’ve been at together, they’ve spoken at together, because it’s incestuous isn’t the right word, but it’s a really like, everybody shares with each other and keeps things pretty tight.

So I would I would do that. I would also look at the tools that facilitate high end coaches such as, School of Bots is this agency for high end coaches, largely used by high end coaches who are, selling with sell by chat. So School of Bots sets up your sell by chat for high ticket coaches.

And that means that they have testimonials galore from high ticket coaches and other brands that are using their services.

So I would go out there and just, like, write all of these mobile too.

Like, going on the testimonial pages to see names.

Yep. Write make a giant list. You need to end up with, like, at least a hundred names of people who you have every reason to believe have a three million plus coaching business. You’ll start to see those hubs, who those people are, the Taki Moors, whoever that life coach woman is.

Brooke Costello. Brooke Costello. Right? So also a big central hub. Who knows Ed Mylett? Like, they all start coming together.

Tony Robbins is a little too big because he’s too followed by too many people, but then there are the other quiet ones that are, like, hundred million dollars, and very well connected. I would make a list of at least a hundred of those people. Scratch anybody who isn’t expensive, who doesn’t seem to be, like, very high ticket, and then start doing the recon work. Get in there. Start following them.

Start retweeting their tweets. I know that’s kinda dead now, but start redoing, like, reposting the things that they have. Find a way in.

And, yeah, that’s step one. Because I think the audience shift, as you just said, is a big part of a change that’s happening for you. Now you need, like, a kill like, the list, the people to go after.

Okay.

And then in terms of, like, understanding their pain points Yeah.

Would you say it’s just, like, proximity and osmosis, or is there anything I can do to gorilla my way into that, insight?

Yeah. There’s I mean, incestuous is not a good word and stalker, also not a good word. But Mhmm. Pretty accurate, when it comes to the definitions on the ethical side of it is the difference.

So where are they? They’re usually putting on events or speaking at events of some kind. They will be in your area or a one hour flight from where you are.

So I would start doing that. Put your hand up. Ask questions. Target them when they’re wandering around, like, trying to get a coffee.

Bring them a glass of water at the end of their talk. That is, like, so old because they’re like, thank you so much, and then you can say what a great talk. Talk. And they’re like, wow.

That’s really nice of you to bring me water or whatever else.

But, like, be there. Start showing up. Like, that’s the right part of hustle culture is, like, freaking get out of your house, put on your shoes, go out there, spend some money sucking up to some people who could change your life. That’s what I would do if I were you, without question.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That’s wonderful. Sure. Cool. Cool. Cool.

As far as question, so I’m happy that I have, like I’ve implemented a lot of processes. I have a process for posting on social. I have a process for creating for appearing on podcast.

I’m building a process for reaching out to, doing cold outreach, but I I’m still having the same problem that the area I wanna focus in, landing pages, seems to, like, fall between the cracks because I have a lot of people reaching out to me through referrals.

But most of the time, their agencies or smaller businesses or other freelancers working for smaller businesses.

And a lot of the larger businesses already have somebody working in house or they wanna keep that process in house.

And in this area, also, the it’s it’s a start up culture. So the number of companies that are spending fifty thousand dollars per month and up on landing pages is limited.

So I feel like I could just continue doing what I’m doing, but the kind of leads that I want, which I, like, I they’re not coming in as freelance leads. I I will often get job opportunities for these kind of positions, but they’re not interested in working with a freelancer. So I feel a little bit stuck.

Mhmm. What are you doing for marketing? How are you getting out there?

Well, I have six more podcast appearances on demand gen related podcasts booked. I already have two that are live and six more that are booked Mhmm. Or have already been recorded and will be released soon.

And then I’m having my assistant take all of those podcasts and chop them up into pieces and post them on all of my socials. And then I just hired a ghostwriter to turn those podcasts into blogs. And I’m gonna do some of those on Substack, and then I’m gonna do some of those, try to find them out to different blogs. So that’s and it works.

That’s what’s coming up. What have you done? Because we’re talking about, oh, no. People aren’t coming, and they won’t we we don’t know what tomorrow holds with content that’s coming, marketing you’re doing. But what about what you’ve been doing?

Well, everything I talk about on social is all, PPC oriented. It has been for a while.

How often are you posting the social?

Which social is it? Are we talking LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok? Mostly LinkedIn.

K. I just opened up an Instagram account, but Okay. Obviously, I just opened it. So it’s very small. Sure.

But, I mean, like, all of my network is on LinkedIn.

All of your existing network, which is the other question. Because are there audience fit issues?

How confident are you that your ICP, given that what you’re saying here is that landing pages fall through the cracks for them, they’ve already got somebody in house doing it, Do you need to continue to serve them?

Because it sounds like it’s like when I went to Rome and it was so mad at me, it didn’t want me there as a city. Like, you just have to listen sometimes to the thing. It was like, oh, okay. This isn’t working.

Is your audience working?

Well, I’m I’m definitely getting getting lots of deals through it. But if I wanna focus on landing pages Exactly. Then I have to add other other pools. But Yeah. It feels like starting from scratch.

So So it’s like, yeah.

I could do this, but it feels like it’s gonna be another six months before it even picks up. So a lot of this like, it feels very frustrating, but it it feels a little bit pointless to work on a lot of, like, process y stuff when in the back of my mind, I’m like, well, actually building relationships and building a network and finding leads for this, it feels like it’s gonna take, like, three to six months for it to really pick up.

So that’s only true that’s both true and not true.

And it’s also the job. So there’s the part where this is why we talk in the intensive of the sunshine growth model.

You have skills. You have one of twelve big pieces, the skills of writing this thing that you’ve nailed. There’s so much else now, and now we need to focus on those things. Right?

And I’m talking about, is your audience a good fit? Do you have a long game in mind? Are you getting the work you want with the audience that you have? And the short answer is no.

You’re not getting the work you want with the audience you have. You have plans for moving forward with different marketing. That’s cool. You’ve got repurposing stuff.

We don’t know what you’re talking about in those, but you’ve said it’s about landing pages. So I hear this, and I think it’s time to CEO the problem. Like, put your CEO hat on.

How do you make the right business decision?

You have people working for you. They need you to CEO this mofo. Like, you need to step up and say, if I believe in myself and my ability to grow this thing, if I believe I can nail it with landing pages, like, I can actually move mountains for businesses with the work that I deliver to them, then I need a better audience. Then I need the audience that can pay for that.

And it’s a hard call. It doesn’t mean you have to abandon your old network. It I would say you start by putting it out there that you are now the landing page person for this audience, this group. Whatever this group is, give it a name, tell yourself who they are, And then once you start driving for that thing, you may find that your existing audience actually has good people to refer you to, which has been a way that you’ve grown. Right?

So my concern is that you won’t see the shift until you commit to the new vision for your business, if you believe that’s the vision. If you don’t believe landing pages are the vision, if you don’t believe that’s where your growth is going to be, that it’s time to decide. It’s not tomorrow time to decide. It’s like, we gotta make hard calls nonstop as entrepreneurs. Like, it’s always. It’s all the time.

So make the call. Make the call to change your offer or change your audience at this point, I would say. And then we get to look at the marketing, what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, where you’re putting yourself out there. I wouldn’t worry, though.

I know it sounds silly, but I really wouldn’t worry that closing one door will mean all doors stay closed. That’s not actually how, like, anything works. Like, that’s if we just observe the world around us, you don’t end up in a vacuum ever in life. These are not common things.

It’s it’s doors open into other rooms, more doors open, all of the stuff. So you I would say there comes a point at which you put your plans together, you say this is what I’m gonna do, and then you do that thing. And if you don’t do that thing, that’s where you lose out.

Well, I mean, I I already decided. I already changed the website around. And, I mean, I mostly talk about about PPC anyways because that’s where my expertise is.

It’s just, like, expanding is not like for you. No. But, like, I I’m not actively seeking out leads in this area. It’s just that leads come to me because it it’s it’s a very, very small community. Everyone knows each other and do work well, then they will refer you very easily. Like, it it’s a very, very small community.

Uh-huh.

So I know.

Like, I’m not I’m not community you’ve been working with for this whole time. The challenge is that we keep, Naomi, running up against audience for you again and again. It’s not your skills. It’s not your ability to network.

It’s not your marketing. It’s not your ability to invest in your business either. You’re nailing it on a lot of things. You keep hitting audience.

You don’t have to change your audience, but you have to find the audience the segment in there that will pay you, that will love you, that will fill you up with, oh my gosh, I can do such a good job for these people, and they love you. That’s what you need to find. If they’ve already got someone in the house doing it and they’re not open to it, they’re not your audience. They can’t be.

By definition, they can’t be. I can’t sell my high heel shoes to my husband. No matter how dope his legs would look in them, he’s never going to wear them. It’s pointless to keep pushing them on him.

So that’s just it.

Right. But Weirdest technology I could be up with.

But No.

But I I can keep trying to break in to a new market. Yes.

But I feel like it’s gonna take another three to six months before take less.

The question is when I ask about your marketing, you’re just new on Instagram.

We talked in Coffee School Pro about sell by chat. We started down the path of sell by chat. That is a path toward actually getting more conversations started with people who will be open potentially to working with you. You start sell by chat. It’s more it’s DMing with people who are commenting, liking, engaging with your stuff. Have you been doing that?

Well, I I only have four posts on Instagram, so I haven’t No.

It works on LinkedIn too. It works on LinkedIn as well. So I would say, let’s start getting intentional with the marketing stuff. So if if you do believe in your audience, if you believe that there are people in that audience, and if there’s more where that came from, you’re starting to move up market, it sounds like, or to a group that can at least afford you and doesn’t have somebody in house or relies on freelancers because they want results and in house people do not deliver the results that most businesses need. No offense to them.

If we’re gonna start working on this stuff, great that you’re strategic about repurposing these podcasts.

Cool. Now what else are we going to do to make sure that you don’t waste any of your efforts? And that’s where this week when we were talking about building out your org chart, the point of building out an org chart is not to be like, oh, cool. Wow.

Look at how great this is gonna get. All of that can be inspiring. The point is to go, holy crap. I do all these roles.

I currently do all of these roles.

And once you can do that, then that can help you make better decisions about what to work on. And so that’s where I wanna really get you moving along to things that are more likely to, actually result in real money wins. The quickest ones are audience. Change that audience.

It doesn’t take long to change an audience. You might think it does doesn’t. You just start saying, hey, ecommerce marketers, in the opening of your post, and suddenly, you talk to ecommerce marketers. That’s you just do that seven times, and now that’s what you do.

So you can do these things.

And you should also be getting specific with the marketing that you intentionally do, which includes things like if you’re going to post on social media and people like it, people comment and they follow you, if you do nothing with that, what was the point?

What was you can’t you can’t buy lunch with a like, but you can if you turn that like into, hey. Cool. Saw that you liked my thing, etcetera etcetera. And then you go on and you have the chat with them.

Does that make sense?

I’m I’m in the process of doing all these things, but, like, I still imagine that it’s gonna take another three to six months.

Unless one of those LinkedIn chats that you have hits five days five times a day is what one of my coaches said to do. You have to have at least five opens, which we teach in CopySchool Pro a day. So not here in the intensive right now, but everybody who’s not quite in CopySchool Pro yet will see that over there. If you, five times a day on LinkedIn, message somebody who follows you or whatever, that is the beginning of you doing it’s not cold outreach. It’s you engaging with a person who just engaged with you. They liked your thing or they commented or they followed you or they wanted to connect or whatever. Accept the connection and then start talking.

That’s how we start not making it a long game. It’s a short game if you do that thing right now.

If it’s your job on the org chart, you’re also the sales manager. You’re the one in charge of getting people to say yes. Does that all make sense?

Okay.

Yeah.

This is which role are we doing today and which ones do we spend too much time doing and which ones do we not spend enough time doing?

Yeah.